Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not.

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar

originally posted by: Willtell
Humans' problems may have nothing to do with God.

I don't think that's possible.
If we have constructed God then we have created a leader for humans and our problems.

Humans' problems are the birthplace of God.

I didn’t’ say man constructed God. I said belief is a mental construct.

Belief in anything.


God, in the end, is a part of the process of transformation, but that is time-centered.

Humans' problems are the birthplace of God.

Human problems are the operand of God

And human problems are the birthplace of the demiurge or Rex Mundi the corruption of Gods vine or the distortion of our inner faculties that are the source of suffering.

a reply to: Pachomius

So your sole interest is God's existence.

Well that’s a simple proposition

By empirical observation, the existence of God is very logical on the basis nothing comes from nothing, so since we are in creation, and are something, then we come from something. We have to have a creator, and again empirically, an intelligent one.

But that’s about all you get out of a belief in a God. A theory backed up by existential being or our very existence.


No scientist can show you anything existing from anything independent

originally posted by: Willtell
Human problems are the operand of God

Doesn't that just mean that humans problems do have something to do with God?

Definition of God: God in concept is the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning. [17 words ]

This is the title of the thread from Pachomius:

Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not.


And the OP is as follows:

[posted on Jun, 25 2020 @ 01:12 PM]
On the assumption that mankind sincerely seeks knowledge, I submit that it is possible for any person to come to resolve the issue God exists or not, with honest intelligent productive thinking, i.e., thinking on truths, facts, logic, and the history of ideas. Now, honest intelligent productive thinking on the said issue must start with working together to concur on the concept of God. What do you dear colleagues here say?

As I am the only poster here with the definition of God at the top of my post, I am entitled to talk about the issue God exists or not, God in concept as the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.



This is my procedure for proving the existence of God.

1. I know for a fact that existence is the default status of reality.

2. I know for a fact that the universe had a beginning some 13.8 billion years ago.

3. I know for a fact that living things like for examples - babies and roses - have a beginning at the very point in time their sexual reproduction takes place.

4. My definition of God is the following: God in concept is the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

5. No. 2 and No. 3 are about objects outside of our mind and independent of our mind, and they have beginnings to their existence: it follows that they are evidence to the existence of God, in concept as the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

6. Therefore: I have proven from evidence that God is the entity in existence or in the default status of reality [see No. 1]: because God corresponds to my definition of God, namely, God in concept is the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.



Further Affiant Sayeth Naught.

a reply to: Pachomius

Lol finally what you wanted to say all along.
That was a difficult birth.

And I hate to tell you, it might not work, because 2. the "fact" is a discussion and HD140283 might be 800 million years older

The big bang or in general that the universe had a beginning is possible but not a sure thing too, it might relate to your 1. that the "default status of reality" could be something completely different than materialistic existence.

Sorry you didn't convince me, God, definition and the question of existence or not, remain
Unknown
And that's a good thing

a reply to: Pachomius

6. Therefore: I have proven from evidence that God is the entity in existence or in the default status of reality [see No. 1]: because God corresponds to my definition of God, namely, God in concept is the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

The only thing you have done is justified your own logic through your own experience. Ignoring other people’s own faith, while practicing this intellectually dishonest charade of seeming to want other people’s Input. When you only wanted to preach, with no actual desire for debate. And falsely accusing people of talking about religion.

Again. The question of god, starts with the question of evil. Is good and evil real? Or hollow beliefs meaningless in the context of natural selection?

What do you say?

a reply to: Pachomius

So...

God to you is nothing but a building contractor? As man learns to manipulate the fabricate of space time, mater, and learns to clone living things, does than mean man is becoming gods?

a reply to: neutronflux
What if god is doing everything?

Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

originally posted by: Blue Shift
There's no solution to the debate because you can't define "God" in any way that makes any logical sense.

Don't assume that, just because YOU cannot define God in a logical way, no one else can, either. Your subjective, dogmatic statement is merely a reflection of your inadequacy. It is a statement of faith, not an expression of self-evident truth.

Most likely there are beings which programmed life by writing a computer code named DNA. That's all I'll say.

The most convincing evidence for the existence of God is mathematical. Read the book "The Mathematical Connection between Religion and Science," by Stephen Phillips. This work reveals for the first time the mathematical nature of what Aldous Huxley referred to as the "perennial philosophy." (see here). The only logical explanation for the mathematical isomorphism demonstrated in this work between certain sacred geometries of Eastern and Western mystical traditions is that a transcendental intelligence exists that inspired the mystics of some religions into discovering isomorphous representations of God. There is no alternative reason for their isomorphism that is more plausible. It runs so deep and has such obvious manifestations in scientific facts about the natural world that believing these connections with science amount to chance is far too implausible a position to hold, as it requires accepting numerous, miraculous coincidences of infinitesimal probability.

"Words are wise men's playthings." Do not use words to prove or disprove the existence of the Ineffable. It convinces neither the atheist nor even the agnostic. The only form of proof that these creatures will accept is logic and mathematics. This now exists - or, rather, is now revealed, for much of the evidence now available has always been around but was kept secret. If you think that order and mathematical coherence cannot be merely the result of chance, then the only logical alternative explanation for the existence of beautiful isomorphism between representations of God found in religions separated by thousands of miles and years is that God exists.

Plato thought mathematics were the most relatable indication of a higher intelligence. The fact that physical and biochemical laws all act according to mathematically predictable patterns fully indicates that there is an Intelligence behind the implementation of these perpetuating laws. They uphold all matter in existence. If even one of the main electromagnetic laws were to change, the entirety of matter would change dramatically in an instant.

This has been called "Logos", which means 'Reason', and it is the logical reason and source of the upholding of physical laws which persist all matters. The Logos came embodied, uninhibited by the delusions that accompany sin, to tell the people how to fulfill the Divine Law.

a reply to: cooperton

That doesn't make any sense because math is an autonomous process that functions regardless of circumstances. Math is actually superior to any form of divine law for that reason. Math doesn't do politics.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: cooperton

math is an autonomous process that functions regardless of circumstances.

Therefore making it an objective truth. This was the exact distinction Plato was making. God, Founder of All, is an Objective Truth that does not change either. From this Objective Certainty (God) there came forth mathematically objective Laws which perpetuate all things. This is why impartiality was such a good teaching from Jesus, because it resembled the very nature of God.

actually that is the state of being on the collective mind.. actually i find my way better in hinduism... the god term is just a tunning the right frequency.. just be witness of you and this dimension .. when you complete the task you are coming for another one..

a reply to: cooperton

Scratches head?

Please provide mathematical proof Jesus existed, was righteous, and was the son of God?

a reply to: cooperton

Or why is it the word of god? Written in laws regarding the expression of emotions. And not the formula of god?

originally posted by: neutronflux

Please provide mathematical proof Jesus existed, was righteous, and was the son of God?

His existence is obvious - our A.D. / B.C. calendar is based around Him. He did no wrong, and was therefore fully righteous. He fulfilled the core aspects of Jewish prophecy. He called God our Father and proved His word was True by conquering death and performing many other miracles throughout His life.

originally posted by: neutronflux
Written in laws regarding the expression of emotions.

It is the ideal modus operandi for the benefit of self and all.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: cooperton

math is an autonomous process that functions regardless of circumstances.

Therefore making it an objective truth. This was the exact distinction Plato was making. God, Founder of All, is an Objective Truth that does not change either. From this Objective Certainty (God) there came forth mathematically objective Laws which perpetuate all things. This is why impartiality was such a good teaching from Jesus, because it resembled the very nature of God.

I think you missed my point. Math doesn't need any divine instruction. There's no actual evidence that any deity just decided 1+1=2 or that a square has four sides or that a hydrogen atom has one proton. There's no evidence that any of these facts were engineered.

originally posted by: 727Sky
There was a thought or a religion long ago that claimed everything that is, is part of God... That means the rock you step on and the person you meet are all but part of God the creator. So the universe (s) Is/are but different manifestations of God.. (humm I dunno for I have seen some really cruel devils in my life).

OK sounds good to me and pretty much covers all the bases except for the 72 virgins or eternity in hell thingy that some claim as their Godly religion. hahah I just figure whatever will be will be will be when I die.... I will know the BE or my lights will be turned out forever.. Kinda like a vacation trip... You may not like the journey but once you get there "wow I could have had a V8 !"

I have always found it interesting about the reincarnation belief that some religions claim.. Either way sit back and relax everyone will know what is up soon enough IMO...

Couple'a thoughts:
We obviously come from forgotten roots. Our ancestors may (or may not) have had a well established religion. I am of the 'belief' they did have a strong understanding of God ... far better than we have today I imagine. Some of the base-beliefs were preserved. There's evidence everywhere you look. Can't imagine what was lost.