Weird Argument about removing statues

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Spider879

If the statement is from the obelisk, that's not a statue of one of the generals or the conquistadors, of Washington or Jefferson, or Columbus, or any of the other figures who have been either torn down or vandalized lately.

Did that get torn down? If not why?

But the intended symbolism behind it is the same..know your place, and Jefferson Davis himself much to his credit , warned against resurrecting the flag or build monuments to the Confederacy, but Naaw they were not getting that.

a reply to: Spider879

Who is this 'Jefferson Davis' of which you speak? I have no recollection of him. Is there possibly a statue that can teach me of his great exploits?

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Spider879

Who is this 'Jefferson Davis' of which you speak? I have no recollection of him. Is there possibly a statue that can teach me of his great exploits?

He's Myra and Elwood's boy.

Was a quiet kid, never said much. Tried to make half a nation secede from the union once, also was a pretty good tipper.

originally posted by: Arnie123

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: Arnie123

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: Arnie123

Their erecting and symbology is a tangible reminder of what was,

Yeah like the symbolism in letting the descendants of Slaves to remind them of their place.. especially since a great amount of those statues and monuments were erected as an opposition of AAs civil , economic and political rights.

You don't know what people think and how they approach things, they've never had an issue before and carried on with their business every other day.

You're essentially telling us what we will think and acting upon that emotional bias for us.

b
Am sure many noticed but were powerless to do a damn thing about it for decades,see reply to Plotus.

That doesn't make sense, they didn't do a damn thing because if wasn't relevant, nobody cared, why should they. these people weren't living there for 10 years bitching about some statues. All of a sudden, BLM is raised from the dead and DNC is awashed in cash.

No, there is a systemic effort to topple statues, coupled with absolute ignorance of the subject.

For instance, at the 1913 dedication of an on-campus monument honoring University of North Carolina students who fought for the Confederacy, white industrialist Julian Carr unambiguously urged his audience to devote themselves to the maintenance of white supremacy with the same vigor that their Confederate ancestors had defended slavery.

During the dedication speech, Carr praised Confederate soldiers not just for their wartime valor but also for their defense “of the Anglo Saxon race during the four years after the war” when “their courage and steadfastness saved the very life of the Anglo Saxon race in the South.” The “four years after the war” was a clear reference to the period in which the Ku Klux Klan, a white paramilitary organization terrorized blacks and white Republicans who threatened the traditional white hierarchy in the state. Then he boasted that “one hundred yards from where we stand” — and within months of Lee’s 1865 surrender — “I horse whipped a negro wench until her skirts hung in shreds because she had maligned and insulted a Southern lady.”

Carr admittedly was uncommonly explicit about conflating Confederate memorialization with white supremacy, but Southern memorials inherently celebrated the slave South and white power along with the heroism of Confederate soldiers.
www.vox.com...

Why are we pussyfooting around the obvious.^^

originally posted by: DBCowboy
...also was a pretty good tipper.

That obviously prepared him well for later in his career when his statues got tipped over.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: DBCowboy
...also was a pretty good tipper.

That obviously prepared him well for later in his career when his statues got tipped over.

He had statues?

a reply to: DBCowboy

I don't know! I told you my memory is fuzzy on this guy because of that.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Spider879

Who is this 'Jefferson Davis' of which you speak? I have no recollection of him. Is there possibly a statue that can teach me of his great exploits?

Yeah in some museum somewhere, if not, there is always Goole..

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: DBCowboy

I don't know! I told you my memory is fuzzy on this guy because of that.

I burned a book about him once.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: JAGStorm

So burning books in one state is okay if they have copies in another state?

No and comparing burning books is a whole lot different than statues. That is the other very silly
argument people use.

If I don't want to read a book, I don't have to.
If I have to go to the courthouse, or school, or park, I have no choice but to look at a statue.

If the statue is in a museum, I too have a choice to go or not.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Don't worry, once he's been eradicated from memory the only Jefferson kids will learn about is going to be George Jefferson.

a reply to: JAGStorm

One question.

If there are ZERO statues of Hitler in the world, Zero..

Is history forgotten?

a reply to: panoz77

Look at the curriculum they are teaching in History now in schools

Don't leave it solely in the hands of the state to educate your children. It's not hard to ask your kids what they learned in school, then discuss it with them, highlighting that they receive a VERY redacted version of history, and usually, biased.

I was actually pleasantly surprised that my daughter learned about Maoist China in the 7th grade. I only briefly skimmed that when I was in high school.

It isn't the state's job (though they'd like to think it is) to teach our children. Too many people leave it to the teachers. Many of these teachers do the best they can.... but that isn't good enough. No offense towards the instructors. Parents and guardians have to be more involved if they want more than mindless automatons as offspring.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I think you're confused with George Jetson.

a reply to: JAGStorm

I've always thought it was weird that we have statues of specific people.

It is a weird symbolism of ego to have these people immortalized.
Someone said it (I'm not sure if it was on here or another forum)

Maybe the bible said we shouldn't have idols because it was known what conflict they bring...

originally posted by: JAGStorm

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: JAGStorm

So burning books in one state is okay if they have copies in another state?

No and comparing burning books is a whole lot different than statues. That is the other very silly
argument people use.

If I don't want to read a book, I don't have to.
If I have to go to the courthouse, or school, or park, I have no choice but to look at a statue.

If the statue is in a museum, I too have a choice to go or not.

how does the statue make you look at it?

Unless you're at Hogwarts.

Then that's very likely.

Most statues are Muggles though. They don't have that power.

a reply to: chelsdh

It's not hard to ask your kids what they learned in school, then discuss it with them, highlighting that they receive a VERY redacted version of history, and usually, biased.

Totally agree. I read the books my children brought home and we discussed. There were a few that were historically inaccurate. Overall I felt their education was robust and they were taught to think and learn.

a reply to: ketsuko

it's never easy for *any* child to learn about human ugliness, but hiding it doesn't make it go away. It only starts us down the path toward it all over again.

Knowledge doesn't have to come wrapped in a bow

Or decorated in macaroni and gold spray paint

Statues are meant to honor - they aren't a direct transference of knowledge

What's happening now was always going to happen. People kept saying we should talk about it, but nobody ever would

I for one think there were much better ways to deal with the artifacts of our ugly history, but - anger won the day

a reply to: DBCowboy

how does the statue make you look at it?

You're joking right? Many of these statues are as in your face as it gets.

originally posted by: chelsdh
I think you're confused with George Jetson.

I think you're confused about jet setting.