Are Ventilators Killing Patients to "Protect" Healthcare Workers?

After learning that ventilators kill more people than they save, somewhere in the 80% range die I took action.

Wrapped around my medical card is a signed statement:

If I should get COVID 19
and be hospitalized:

DO NOT put me on a
ventilator. I do not give
permission to put me on a ventilator.
Instead turn me on my stomach
or side AND give me an oxygen
mask rather than nasal oxygen.

Please do give me
hydroxychloroquine and
a Z pac or
Remdesivir
or any other treatment that
has shown great promise
in treating COVID 19.
I claim right to try.


I did this in case I was too ill to make my wishes known. My elderly mother also has a copy of this statement wrapped around her medicare card. We signed and printed our name at the bottom.

We know the first thing they do at the hospital is ask for your insurance card. Having this statement wrapped around the card should insure they honor our wishes.

I am all for trying any medication, but ventilators appear to be a death knell for COVID patients. I read an article from another country, I don't recall the exact place, where they had better luck positioning patients and putting oxygen masks on them then using ventilators.

With ventilators they also heavily sedate the patients, making them no trouble to the staff, which also encourages the staff to put people in pain and moaning from illness on ventilators. So I made it as official as I could and in writing and if I am ever admitted and lucid, I'll be sure to emphasize, no ventilator.

a reply to: Boadicea

I thought the #1 Rule for medical personnel is "DO NO HARM".

Maybe it only applies under certain circumstances?

a reply to: The2Billies

For that to actually be even a little binding/legal/enforceable/taken seriously by hospital ... you MUST rewrite this, preferably typed out and sign it in the presence of a notary ( your bank will usually do that for free) and you need to file a copy with the hospital you go to. If you are that serious about it, then follow through and make it legally enforceable.

a reply to: Boadicea

This ventilator issue seems very important. I didn't really pay attention to it until I saw that video from a respiratory specialist a few weeks ago claiming that they're being told not to use the non-invasive methods and go right to ventilators even though it's not normal practice. I just checked and the video has been removed by YouTube now, but he basically pointed out how dangerous it was to do that. I'm also seeing reports that some older people are being refused ventilators either because it's too high risk or there's a shortage, which would suggest they aren't even being given the option of less invasive treatments. You have to wonder just how many people have died as a result of this idiotic approach, which they now seem to be backpedaling on.

originally posted by: WUNK22
My girlfriend works at Danbury hospital n Connecticut, she is coved nurse. The last think they want is the ventilator, most don’t survive it. Protocol now is heavy O2, anti AIDS & that quinine drug the Democrats criticized Trump on. Turns out it’s working great with high success rates. Ventilators damage the lungs!!

Actually the chor....whatevver mhuggi does not work and #45 continues to tout.

Study of High-Dose Chloroquine For COVID-19 Stopped Early Due to Patient Death

www.sciencealert.com...

Small Chloroquine Study Halted Over Risk of Fatal Heart Complications

www.nytimes.com...

FDA reiterates risks of antimalarial drug use for COVID-19, as study into efficacy ends early due to deaths

techcrunch.com... er=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAADdVAiah8nexSIjgGhNAp1D0YMvcZ9REFEsKGu7SI3RVteJNZUoson96eHHFwHJCzEVY01QdAve2R eZ996JxqmluJyM0B8Y0_clyCY3CTRcd9RCM-oUBM8_X8ONy8G4jFuVsbj2aYyhQaDQkTkH0btO-YlK75Nbi57dskEgO4cWT


He's only advertising a drug that one of his 'tax haven' companies sells. But do, please take his medical advise if you wish.

Thanks for your research.

I have been wondering about CPAPs as they are in people's homes and everywhere really. I didn't know they would nebulize (or could) the virus.

Hopefully a work around will be found.

originally posted by: Boadicea

This is yet one more unintended consequence with tragic results for many to protect others. These health workers shouldn't be held liable for this travesty, and they won't be -- Cuomo Executive Order Grants Immunity to Healthcare Providers During COVID-19 Emergency -- but those at the top making the decisions and giving these healthcare workers their marching orders sure as hell need to be held to account.

(continued...)

Cripes. Health care workers were already maiming and killing tens of thousands of people per year in the US through errors and infections. Now they have immunity? Lovely. I think it might be better to just go ahead and die than present to a hospital at this point.

For infections alone (and yes, this counts as healthcare workers killing patients--I've had a nurse pick up a pill off a floor and hand it to me; a physician placed a central line without a mask; etc): 98,000 over a number of years.

"The estimated deaths associated with HAIs in U.S. hospitals were 98,987" www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

"at least 44,000 and perhaps as many as 98,000 Americans die in hospitals each year as a result of medical errors"
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Note that these stats are before the pandemic. This will only be worse now given the stress upon healthcare workers. However, pre-pandemic there were so many deaths that could have been prevented, and now these killers are getting get-out-of-jail-free cards. You'll see me waving no "hero" signs for them. I was maimed and nearly killed myself in 2005 by their who-gives-a-sh88 attitudes and practices.

I'm not surprised at all they're choosing patient-killing practices to protect themselves. There are a handful of really incredible staff who care very much and will even think about your case on their own time, worrying about you. However, I really don't think most care at all if you die, even unnecessarily. Witness the nurses dancing with the "COVID corpse." "We were just kidding around." No, they were actually displaying how very little they care.

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: Boadicea

I should rephrase, the info is out there but most hospitals probably are unaware since their primary median of communication is 1990's fax machines!

Well, you just helped get it farther!

The link you provided for the new protocols shows much thought being put into this, revising protocols from early mild stages through more serious stages and complications. It's an excellent start.

As different hospitals and providers establish new protocols -- effective and successful protocols -- they can learn from each other.

a reply to: Willtell

Hundreds of Chinese ventilators bought by the UK government to help the NHS treat critically ill coronavirus patients have been ditched because they were unsuitable, unreliable and potentially dangerous, it has emerged.

Oh no. That's really bad. Makes you wonder how big a problem faulty ventilators are in China. And if Italy -- perhaps Iran also -- bought ventilators from China as well.

I hadn't seen this. Thanks, Will -- much appreciated.

originally posted by: Stupidsecrets
It's a death sentence. Virus or no virus. Most do not survive being put on one. If they are put on one odds are another organ or organs are failing. They might be breathing but there is no fixing organs. Maybe they go on dialysis and recover. Maybe they get a transplant. Odds of that working out are extremely low. Maybe one lives a week longer. I'm not a doctor but watched it first hand a couple times.

Yes -- problems with ventilators are not confined to CoVid, are usually a last ditch effort, and even if the patient survives, there are some awful adverse effects for the patient to deal with.

With CoVid, it's because patients are not treated until they are crashing -- "turning blue" -- and it's desperation time for patient and doctor at that point. With earlier effective intervention, patients never need to get to that point.

Thanks for adding this!

originally posted by: Kenzo
a reply to: Boadicea

This is like a horror movie , no wonder New York have so much deaths..good thread Boadicea

"Horror movie" is a good way to describe New York hospitals. That's the last place I'd want to be or go if it were me.

Hospitals should have those UV lamps in use do disinfect the air ?

That may be happening sooner rather than later: Feds, Hospitals Zapping COVID-19 ... Virus-Killing Robot?!?. We have a lot of smart folks among us figuring this out. Where there's a will, there's a way, right?

This is something i would maybe suspect to happen in China, and not in New York.......what's the world coming to?

The people who murder patients should be lock up in prison

Those responsible for these irresponsible protocols need to be held accountable. We all understand this was an urgent medical crisis with no immediate answers, but when you know something isn't working, you don't double down on it! You find new treatments and protocols. And you sure don't wait until it's pretty much an automatic death sentence.

Yes. Someone(s) needs to be held accountable.

I seen reports that molecular hydrogen could be helpfull, they used it in china for covid-19 ....i wonder if could hydrogen water that could help....it`s easy to use as just need to put the tablets to water and drink after dissolved, anti-inflammatory etc benefits

I'm not familiar with molecular hydrogen, but I do know hydrogen peroxide is antiseptic/antiviral/antibacterial/antimicrobial. Many simple and common substances have powerful healing abilities.

a reply to: miri2019

Thanks for the post and this video.

Thanks for appreciating it -- and caring. These are scary times for many reasons, eh?

I watched the video and it was very informative, eye-opening. What a brave girl and nurse! I shared this video on my facebook page.

I was impressed by her determined and matter-of-fact manner. I can't say stoic, because the emotion was there but contained. She was determined to get the facts (as she knew them) out as best she could. And despite the absolutely horrifying content of what she was sharing, she did a good job. I was especially impressed that she made it clear patient's could put in the "Do not intubate" order. Just this knowledge could help some patients beat that death sentence.

People need to know. People have a right to know.

Have you gotten much feedback from posting on Facebook? I know we ATSers are rather our own... um... shall we say breed? What draws our attention isn't always attention-grabbing for the rest of the world.

originally posted by: ANNED
The standard cpap mask raises pressure and can be used with added O2.

But it vents to the outside through vent ports.

I believe the cpap machines are useful with a modified mask that vents through a N100 filter.

I have been on a Cpap machine since 2006 for sleep apnea and at full pressure they put a lot of pressure into your lungs.

Something like this.
www.resmed.co.uk...

Thank you for adding this -- I appreciate the info on CPAP masks in general. I only have a basic knowledge, I admit, so there's far more about it that I don't know than do know. I have seen some efforts to modify masks for patients to reduce the chance of aerosolization. Thankfully some better minds than mine are working on it!

originally posted by: The2Billies
After learning that ventilators kill more people than they save, somewhere in the 80% range die I took action.

Wrapped around my medical card is a signed statement:

If I should get COVID 19
and be hospitalized:

DO NOT put me on a
ventilator. I do not give
permission to put me on a ventilator.
Instead turn me on my stomach
or side AND give me an oxygen
mask rather than nasal oxygen.

Please do give me
hydroxychloroquine and
a Z pac or
Remdesivir
or any other treatment that
has shown great promise
in treating COVID 19.
I claim right to try.

I did this in case I was too ill to make my wishes known. My elderly mother also has a copy of this statement wrapped around her medicare card. We signed and printed our name at the bottom.

We know the first thing they do at the hospital is ask for your insurance card. Having this statement wrapped around the card should insure they honor our wishes.

Excellent advice -- thank you for posting this!

Placing patients on their belly was new to me when I heard it, but it's proving effective, and that's a godsend. Sometimes the simplest things can have a profound effect!

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: Boadicea

I thought the #1 Rule for medical personnel is "DO NO HARM".

Maybe it only applies under certain circumstances?

So I thought as well... their fundamental guiding principle. But apparently some decided they know better.

It shocks the senses, doesn't it???

originally posted by: Advantage
a reply to: The2Billies

For that to actually be even a little binding/legal/enforceable/taken seriously by hospital ... you MUST rewrite this, preferably typed out and sign it in the presence of a notary ( your bank will usually do that for free) and you need to file a copy with the hospital you go to. If you are that serious about it, then follow through and make it legally enforceable.

Again, excellent advice -- thank you for adding it!

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
a reply to: Boadicea

This ventilator issue seems very important. I didn't really pay attention to it until I saw that video from a respiratory specialist a few weeks ago claiming that they're being told not to use the non-invasive methods and go right to ventilators even though it's not normal practice. I just checked and the video has been removed by YouTube now, but he basically pointed out how dangerous it was to do that.

That was the video that got me interested as well. MotherMayEye did a little further research, and posted even more information corroborating what he said. I would have posted it, but as you've already said, it's been removed from youtube. And the removal of the video is shameful in itself. But that's become SOP it seems.

I'm also seeing reports that some older people are being refused ventilators either because it's too high risk or there's a shortage, which would suggest they aren't even being given the option of less invasive treatments. You have to wonder just how many people have died as a result of this idiotic approach, which they now seem to be backpedaling on.

At some point, I really hope the number crunchers take a look at patient outcomes by hospital and treatment. I suspect that many patients who have died could have been helped with earlier medical intervention, and alternative treatments. And I don't mean "alternative" in the sense of natural remedies, but simply different methods of treatment.

Most of all, I'd like to see the people given advice about Vitamin C and D3 and other nutritional supplements that are showing promise in preventing these complications from developing to begin with. Like this:

People with low levels of Vitamin D may be more likely to catch coronavirus and die from COVID-19 infection, study suggests

Evidence that Vitamin D Supplementation Could Reduce Risk of Influenza and COVID-19 Infections and Deaths.

a reply to: FyreByrd

He's only advertising a drug that one of his 'tax haven' companies sells. But do, please take his medical advise if you wish.

It seems that both the drugs being touted -- hydroxychloroquine and remdesivir -- have financial interests for their "pushers" as well as some serious side effects.

I've looked at the chloroquine more closely than remdesivir, and it seems that chloroquine is most effective when administered early in the disease. But there are very serious adverse effects to the heart to consider (especially for patients with an existing heart problem), and others side effects, including some mental impairment. I have wondered if that's what happened in this sad case:

Family of N.Y.C. doctor who died by suicide says coronavirus ‘altered’ her brain

It's purely speculation on my part though. I have not found anything saying she was treated with the hydroxychloroquine.

originally posted by: Advantage
a reply to: The2Billies

For that to actually be even a little binding/legal/enforceable/taken seriously by hospital ... you MUST rewrite this, preferably typed out and sign it in the presence of a notary ( your bank will usually do that for free) and you need to file a copy with the hospital you go to. If you are that serious about it, then follow through and make it legally enforceable.

Thanks for the advice.

I did type it up and I signed it. I'll rewrite it and get it notarized.

a reply to: drussell41

Sadly, yes, you're right about medical error/malpractice, which could be considered the number one cause of death -- depending on how one crunches the numbers.

And the guiding principle of "First, do no harm" seems to be taken as a suggestion by too many.

As evidenced by the dancing nurses with the "CoVid corpse." WTH were they even thinking??? But I think these dancing nurse TikTok videos are outright disrespectful and shameful. And some responses to the public backlash double down on the disrespect. I don't want to hear how stressful it is for them, and WE need to STFU, when practically the whole world has shut down to support them. People are living in the most difficult circumstances, and people are dying in the most horrendous circumstances. And they seem to think it's a joke.

On the other hand, I'm sure there are far more conscientious and compassionate healthcare providers who are giving their all, and probably find much of what is happening completely unacceptable.