Are Ventilators Killing Patients to "Protect" Healthcare Workers?

a reply to: Serdgiam

Thanks. I'll check out the link later. The constant changing of messaging on what we should do, shouldn't do, wear, not wear has made me angry. I feel that it is on purpose to keep us confused and afraid.

I don't wear a mask in public unless I'm somewhere that requires it. But I fully understand and support people that choose to wear masks.

originally posted by: Boadicea
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(I wanted to post the video that inspired this ATS thread, but it's been removed by YouTube for violating "community standards": Nurse Labels Virus as a Lie)

Assuming that's the video in question, what's with the straw man argument in the title of the video that was removed (if it had the same title)? I think she actually says way more important things and makes way more important arguments and points. Rather than such a misleading title that impresses people with the suggestion that the virus doesn't exist, is a lie, an invention, just a narrative but not what it's claimed to be (a contageous virus that can cause death and serious respiratory issues; I don't think that's under dispute as that title suggests, certainly not in what the nurse says in that video you used). I don't hear her making any such argument in the video you used, am I missing a part (I noticed it started mid-sentence or mid-word at the start)?

Doesn't such a title function as something that would discredit the important things she actually has to say? Sort of a hidden ad hominem? By pretending she doesn't believe the corona virus is a real virus (or perhaps a real virus that can cause death and serious respiratory issues), they end up distracting people from taking her real message seriously; thinking people will dismiss it out of hand with such a title and file it under the label "crazy conspiracy talk" for themselves. They won't even hear her out, and if they do, they'll continue to have that impression in the back of their minds ("crazy conspiracy talk", based on that title, and try to associate anything she might say with the label "paranoid person"; the same label used to paint on this nurse in the comment section of the video you used). This all plays into keeping quiet and people's attention away from the subjects she's pointing out. One of the most crucial points being that health care workers should think twice before blindly following a policy or protocol and should consider them more carefully and analyze if the ones making these policies and protocols have the best interest in mind for the patients or themselves and their financial benefactors (including the owners of and most influential careerjunkies in hospitals they directly or indirectly work for and associated farmaceutical corporations and government agencies and their associated political network from whence national policies, protocols and advice come from; as well as influential figures in the so-called "scientific community" concerning health care, virulogy and medicine).

originally posted by: miri2019

I got a share of the video, some surprised reactions and a good comment...

That's actually good to hear. I'd rather hear that some people appreciated it and others made no comment, than that no one appreciated it, or worse, others criticized it or tried to discredit it. The information is too important not to pay attention.

None the less the video was explosive, I was taken aback by the matter-of-factly way of talking of that concerned nurse. I immediately felt the vibes of deep concern from her.

I feel the same. Not overly dramatic and hysterical; just telling the facts as she was told, dead serious and determined.

Oh and youtube doesn't make it easy to find the video even though I entered almost the whole title as search words, you had to scroll down quite a bit.

Thanks Boadicea for finding that video and posting it!

I had hard time finding just the video as well. I almost gave up. I had to change search keywords three times before I found it!

originally posted by: Khaleesi
a reply to: Boadicea

I'm really irked by the way they have been talking about masks. The disinformation is crazy. IMO it's another fear tactic. They keep changing the talking points.

I'm with you 100% there, and another poster made a similar point. It does worry me... but I'm still more afraid of them than the virus. Nothing is being done in OUR best interests.

Once a mask becomes moist from your breath after about an hour, you need to change masks. Because now it just becomes a breeding ground for everything.

Thank you!!! Two different people in the healthcare field -- and now you -- have all told me that wearing a mask is a risk to ourselves for exactly this reason... and that if we are sick (with CoVid or another virus), that we will infect that mask, and that we will re-inhale those virus cells and increase our own viral load. I've been told not to wear a mask for any longer than necessary, and if it's a cloth mask to wash it well -- with bleach -- between wearings.

We have been told that it is to protect others from our cooties, not to protect us. It seems to me that for the same reason it does not protect us -- because if someone else's cooties do land on our mask, we will inhale them through the mask. So of course we must be susceptible to our own germs on our own mask in the same way!

Even the N95 mask sitting right here on my desk has this warning: " WARNING: Misuse may result in sickness or death. For proper use, see supervisor or box or call 3M..." This may pertain to fitting it properly for protection, but I tend to think it's more than that.

Like you, I had no problem with others wearing masks, and if I have to I will, but I will make every effort not to. Due to asthma, I may be exempt from some stores' mask policy, but it's not something I want to flaunt either.

My wife's facility wants them to keep a mask that they've worn ALL DAY and reuse it the next day. So the medical staff is actually being put more at risk because of this supposed shortage.

That's unconscionable! They know better!!!

At some point, you have to wonder if the mask is more than to just make us fearful, but to actually cause what we are fearful of. Do they need more victims to really keep us scared???

Like my husband has said, they've done nothing to calm fears or help us face our fears, they just keep ramping it up and keeping people ungrounded and uncertain, like scared rabbits in flight mode or a deer in the headlights. He was furious when his 90-year-old retired RN mother was first told to isolate as a precaution... and then asked to come in and serve as a nurse at the local clinic! She has filled in there since she retired, but for basic medical care. She won't be doing this.

You've put out some great information in this thread and I hope you keep digging. You are doing us all a great service.

Thank you -- from an experienced healthcare worker, I especially appreciate that. I had a tough time trying to put this all together in a way that made sense!

originally posted by: Serdgiam
a reply to: Khaleesi

Probably a prime time to throw this link out there again.

Salt masks

Yes, it is a prime time. Thank you for adding it!

And why the hell isn't the medical establishment also doing this? There were studies found -- and I'm pretty sure linked in that thread -- that proved the effectiveness of a salt soak for masks. Even if it's not "FDA approved", if it can't hurt, then it's worth trying, right? Even if it's not foolproof, it's one added layer of defense. So why???

originally posted by: Kenzo

I would think that the right dosages of vitamins D and C compined with right dosages of zinc would be powerfull weapon against respiratory diseases. hydroxy chloroquine, quercetin or green tea needed to help zinc inside cell better

These same ingredients are in a "cocktail" developed by the Eastern Virginia Medical School. They seem to be thinking along the same lines:

While there is very limited data (and none specific for COVID-19), the following “cocktail” may have a role in the prevention/mitigation of COVID-19 disease. While there is no high level evidence that this cocktail is effective; it is cheap, safe and widely available.
•Vitamin C 500 mg BID and Quercetin 250-500 mg BID
•Zinc 75-100 mg/day (acetate, gluconate or picolinate). Zinc lozenges are preferred. After 1-2 months, reduce the dose to 30-50 mg/day.
•Melatonin (slow release): Begin with 0.3mg and increase as tolerated to 1-2 mg at night
•Vitamin D3 1000-4000 u/day (optimal dose unknown).

The entire report is well worth the read: EVMS CRITICAL CARECOVID-19 MANAGEMENT PROTOCOL

a reply to: whereislogic

Yes... and no.

I agree completely with your overall point, but as it applies to the video in the linked thread: Nurse Labels Virus as a Lie, which video has been removed from youtube.

The video I embedded is not the same video.

My apologies for not being more clear and causing any confusion!

a reply to: Boadicea


The report is exellend read , i wonder should nitric oxide also be added since it is crucial part of respiratory cycle.And molecular hydrogen should also be helpfull as water form ..


Study shows blood cells need nitric oxide to deliver oxygen


The best food to boost notric oxide is by eating beetroot.


The 10 Best Foods to Boost Nitric Oxide Levels

If the lungs and/or heart are so damaged and the case so severe that blood is not being oxygenated, oxygen masks, nasal cannulas, cpap machines, laying on your belly, and breathing exercises are all all but useless.

The only thing that would perhaps help would be ecmo to allow the cardiovascular system to recover. But those machines are far more rare than all of the above.

originally posted by: GravitySucks
If the lungs and/or heart are so damaged and the case so severe that blood is not being oxygenated, oxygen masks, nasal cannulas, cpap machines, laying on your belly, and breathing exercises are all all but useless.

"If" is a mighty big word here. "If" means there are alternative scenarios. "If" means it doesn't need to get to that point, and is all the more reason that patients should receive appropriate medical care early and sooner... when those "oxygen masks, nasal cannulas, cpap machines, laying on your belly, and breathing exercises" could be very valuable to stopping the progression of symptoms and the severity of symptoms... and NOT be told to wait until they are turning blue before receiving medical care, eh???

The only thing that would perhaps help...

No. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. In most cases, far more could be done far earlier to prevent the most severe symptoms and/or complications. Letting it get to the point where patients are already at death's door before offering any medical intervention is the greatest problem at this point.

I started noticing that ventilators were not the way to go a while back. Just in my "everyday dude" observations.

Then, when they put UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson in ICU, and they only gave him oxygen, I thought....AH HA!

Yep, high profile case, no ventilator/intubation and he made it out OK. To me, that was pretty telling. Had he been Joe Nobody, he would have been intubated.

The thing that scared me when this whole thing started was the mass influx of not only misinformation, but guesses being played out as fact. The information about this virus and treatments changed almost hourly.

Those of us on here knew back in December that this was possibly coming with all the posts showing the situation in Wuhan. They didn't lockdown that city and Province until Jan 23rd a mere 9 days after telling the WHO on Jan 14th that they had no evidence of human to human transmission. Yet they were already rounding people up and hauling them away. And here in the US, we now have our official first case on Feb 6th in Los Angeles with a death of a person who never traveled to China. That means it's been in the wild spreading a lot longer than they told us.

I 100% blame China (CCP) for every single death across the globe resulting from this virus.

Wanted to do a bit of a data dump here.. Since this thread is quite dense with good info, and this will provide an easy to access platform for exploration.

Still need to look into DRACO more, but have some personal issues that are taking priority

Calcineurin is a pretty expansive topic, one Im still diggin into.. But there is evidence that electromagnetic fields can supress immune function via calcineurin inhibition;

Electromagnetic fields may act via calcineurin inhibition to suppress immunity, thereby increasing risk for opportunistic infection: Conceivable mechanisms of action.

A bit more general of a report, also including Ca2+:

Effects of Electromagnetic Fields on Organs and Tissues

These seem to be talking about immune suppression, among other things, but we also know that EMFs can stimulate the immune system beneficially. And, that would indicate the opposite (detrimentally) would be well within the realm of possibility.

Extremely low frequency electromagnetic fields stimulation modulates autoimmunity and immune responses: a possible immuno-modulatory therapeutic effect in neurodegenerative diseases

Here is one, a bit older, looking into general Ca2+ and calcium signaling interaction with ELF EMF.

Elec tromagnetic field effects on cells of the immune system: The role of calcium signaling

Here, we have some research going into stimulation of allergic and inflammatory responses specifically

Disturbance of the immune system by electromagnetic fields—A potentially underlying cause for cellular damage and tissue repair reduction which could lead to disease and impairment

Here is a site to an organization that seems to be attempting to change the standards for non-thermal low energy EMF and radiation. Im unsure if they are still active, but their summary here is a very interesting read.

I think there is quite a bit going on here, and perhaps that the wisdom in being able to shift protocols when they arent working is similar to exploring every facet that may be playing a role in the overall picture.

Yes, Im aware many will laugh at EMFs any where in the same conversation as diseases and immune system modulation & response...

originally posted by: poncho1982
I started noticing that ventilators were not the way to go a while back. Just in my "everyday dude" observations.

Then, when they put UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson in ICU, and they only gave him oxygen, I thought....AH HA!

Yep, high profile case, no ventilator/intubation and he made it out OK. To me, that was pretty telling. Had he been Joe Nobody, he would have been intubated.

Well damn... yes... at the time, I suspected that BoJo just wasn't sick enough for the ventilator, and fumed that if he had been Joe Nobody he wouldn't even have received medical treatment. But you could very well be right. Too many questions if the PM had died on their watch...

The thing that scared me when this whole thing started was the mass influx of not only misinformation, but guesses being played out as fact. The information about this virus and treatments changed almost hourly.

Yes, and much of it contradictory. It couldn't all be true/right, but it sure served up the fear mongering and panic.

And here in the US, we now have our official first case on Feb 6th in Los Angeles with a death of a person who never traveled to China. That means it's been in the wild spreading a lot longer than they told us.

I never understood why they thought otherwise, with multiple direct flights from China every single day.

I 100% blame China (CCP) for every single death across the globe resulting from this virus.

I'm not ready to do that yet. I have no reason to believe anyone about what China knew or didn't know, and when they knew it. And I have plenty of reason to believe that our own dear leaders could have gotten the bestest information from China and still mucked it up for their own reasons... while blaming China.

For example, the topic of this OP. What would the death rate be if our own medical system weren't giving patients their death sentence?

www.youtube.com...

The MD is this video explains how ventilators are being mis-used.

This was already covered more or less in another post.

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow

www.youtube.com...

The MD is this video explains how ventilators are being mis-used.

This was already covered more or less in another post.

That's a great video by Dr. Kyle-Sidell to understand doctors' concerns about using ventilators on CoVid patients, and I linked to an interview with the good doctor, as well as another video with Dr. Kyle-Sidell and other physicians. It's valuable information for all of us. But he doesn't address the topic of this OP -- "Are ventilators killing patients to protect healthcare workers?"

Did you perhaps intend to post a different video? This video does not address that patients are not being seen before becoming critical, when cannulas or CPAPs might prevent symptoms worsening or complications developing, nor that they are being denied these non-invasive treatments -- and subsequently placed on ventilators -- to protect healthcare workers.

does anyone have a tally of how many people have been put on ventilators?

originally posted by: ruckus49
does anyone have a tally of how many people have been put on ventilators?

I do not and I have looked for that number.

I have seen specific numbers mentioned or used for specific purposes, specific numbers within a specific hospital at a specific time, and specific numbers for "of this many on ventilators this many recovered and this many perished," etc. Rarely -- if ever -- are numbers included for those still on ventilators.

But I know of no running tally anywhere... perhaps HIPAA forbids it? I would think numbers could be released without any identifying information though.

a reply to: Serdgiam

Thank you for adding all of this!

I'm noticing references to CoVid being nosocomial... meaning patients are acquiring this in-hospital and nursing homes. I do not know to what extent. But it seems to be a known problem. Britain's first patient contracted CoVid while having gall bladder surgery.

When Our Hospitals Are the Pandemic Superspreaders

They are more prone to transmission than the field facilities set up during the Spanish Flu of 1918. Here's why.

First reported nosocomial outbreak of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) in a pediatric dialysis unit

COVID-19 and the NHS—“a national scandal”

a reply to: Boadicea

I was hoping it wouldn't be too far off base Collected the links for something else though (not on the web).

I think the problem is that, as a discussion, EMF has been.. historically.. silly (?).

Its interesting you bring up nosocomial infections though, just earlier today I was thinking about it in terms of all that stuff I linked. Everything from getting imaging performed to wireless.. everything.

Add to that a highly disinfected environment, already compromised immune systems, general illness..
..kind of similar to the situation we have been working towards outside hospitals, come to think of it.. ..and its a rough recipe.

Perhaps something like FarUV can really play a role there, in general. Intuitively though (I know, I know..) I feel like more disinfecting might not be the best move?

Perhaps adding hydrogen generators to the general water supply might be immensely helpful, maybe even looking at making a hydrogen rich mixture for cannulas. One of the things thats helped me the most recently..

NIH on its use as a selective antioxidant.

This site isnt known to me, but seems well sourced and in alignment with some inferences made elsewhere. Specifically speaking on cytokines, as well.

This Nature article is related too, but take specific note of its references section wrt hydrogen, cytokines, etc. Incredibly, *incredibly* extensive resource...

a reply to: Boadicea
Did that video originally have someone labeling the virus as a lie? Cause I'm not seeing that in the description of that video in the OP from the thread with that title linked by you either.

It seems such a detrimental argument or claim to what's actually discussed in that OP, which is:

I checked the forums to see if this has been brought up on here already but nothing came up, so if it's a double post my apologies.
So what I gathered from this nurse here is that apparently the shortage of ventilators isn't a thing, a least in that hospital, and that they're being told NOT to use the procedures and machines they would use before a ventilator. What is the percentage of deaths that occur while on a ventilator, wasn't it somewhere around 80%? He also mentions something that's been brought up a lot recently and that is the act of correlating deaths to covid-19 no matter how the patient actually died or what they died from. And according to a comment on that video, there has been more of these videos but they keep getting deleted. Weird uncertain times.

That's the description of the video, nowehere in there do I see the claim or argument made in the title "Nurse Labels Virus as a Lie". Of course, the nurse could have done that in the video that was removed. I can't tell cause the video was removed and is nowhere to be found in the commentary here or in that thread (not that I looked very hard for such a video with such a misleading distracting title, whether or not it was done by the nurse, since labeling the virus as such in itself is misleading and distracting from the real issues here; labeling a virus as a "lie" is like denying its very existence, or that it is a virus in the first place, or something like that; so who is even seriously disputing that regarding Corona? An utterly useless debate if one wants to go there; like debating whether or not ATS users in general are more often foolish than wise. Should be obvious).

The bolded part obviously being the key point related to this thread and the video you used, not the point that the virus is a lie (supposedly) or was labeled as such (supposedly) or even can be labeled as such (supposedly). All distracting points, claims or arguments. How are you going to get people to pay attention to the bolded point if you title the video and your thread like that? (not talking about you, I know you just copy-pasted the misleading distracting title, but just wondering in general; also wondering out loud whether the person using that title thought it through like that and whether or not it was on purpose for that exact reason and the discrediting reason I explained earlier, since it reallty hurts the message in the bolded part which you explained in more detail in this thread).

The title of that video looks designed on purpose to get people being confronted with what that nurse has to say (or anyone saying anything similar from now on), to automatically associate it with 'tinfoil-hattery'. (I said "paranoid person" before but this term is actually even better). They won't take the crucial bolded point seriously anymore, dismissing it out of hand as something unreasonable to complain about or bring up as a serious issue; something that if corrected, could avoid unnecessary deaths, also something that puts the cause of these deaths, at the feet of those writing the policies and protocols. those influencing them as they do so, and those following them and carrying them out. These deaths are on their hands (including those who survived with lung damage from unnecessary ventilators when other options could have been tried first). That's why the nurse in your video says: "she used the word murder" (referring to another nurse).