The Anti-Christian conspiracy

Originally posted by EnronOutrunHomerun
Can it... That kind of attitude will not be tolerated on these boards...

It's certainly your right to caution or warn as you see fit, but I'm surprised you don't find comments about someone's messiah coming to kill and destroy the earth, judge, and burn people for eternity to be more offensive than pointing out the obvious wrt Revelation and psychotropic substances - a position that can be supported with actual evidence and was shared by some of the early church fathers as well.

Only those who idolize the book would find such a comment offensive.

Originally posted by Al Davison

Maybe everything has been said...

It is impossible to say everything that could be said about this issue...certainly not in the 63 pages of this thread. That there is a conspiracy against Christians may be a bit of an expansive overstatement, since there are somewhere around 1500 differing sects of Christians, yet
there very likely is a conspiracy against 1 sect or group of sects at this time, since there has never been a time when there wasn't.

There is, IMO, a concerted effort by those who are in disagreement with the 'apparent' cosy alliance between the evangelical churches and the current administration of the US. These sectarian forces are pushing an agenda which is obviously fighting on a number of issues such as teaching creationism or intelligent design in schools and the attempt to redefine words such as Christmas tree, Christmas season, etc.

However, there is also a long history of attacks upon Christian sects by other Christian sects, such as the forced subjegation of the Nestorian church, established in 428AD, by the Patriarch of Constantinople, Nestorian. His undoing was the statement; "Let no one call Mary the Mother of God, for Mary was but human." For this he was excommunicated, but his followers went abroad to establish a church based on his doctrines in the Egyptian deserts and eventually joining with the Coptic Church. Their teachings were labelled heretical and have been constantly hounded by the Church of Rome. The centuries have not been kind to them, but the sect is alive today in a watered down, but more acceptable (to the Vatican) form today.

The constant battles between differing theologies has gone on unabated for as long as history has kept records. There has never been peaceful coexistance between them and, short of a Eureka moment for the entire human race, I doubt there ever will. To encapsulate such a struggle within the few pages of this thread is impossible.

I won't even attempt to produce examples of other non-Christian faiths which represent 2/3rds of the human race and their anti-Christian efforts, but they are there and are happening as they always have.

But, when personal attacks replace discourse, then, this thread will die. I've felt the direction this was going quite a few pages ago and decided 'bowing out' was, perhaps, the best thing to do.

.

edit for grammar


[edit on 11-12-2005 by masqua]

suzyAs I've mentioned before, his HATE MONGERING and RELIGIOUS VILLIFICATION, spread all over these boards, would have him arrested in a number of countries (and killed in Islamic countries), yet he still hasn't earned an official "warn".

Good thing I don't live in one of those countries then.

Why can people gleefully say things like ...

webbtexas
He's not coming back as a sweet little baby in a manger, rather, as a warrior, on a white horse, with implements of war, to wage war, and rule over the earth, to slay His enemies, and all who oppose Him, and to bind up the evil ones and cast them into the lake of fire.

...and that isn't considered hate mongering, nor do they receive a warning about it, and those who find such claims to be outlandishly offensive are not even permitted to point out that it reads like a mushroom trip?

There does seem to be a conspiracy, but it isn't an anti-christian conspiracy. It's a double standard conspiracy that elevates blind belief and idolatry of ancient books above reason.

Oh Charlie Murphy, I do hope you've only scanned a small few posts to make the claim you did.

The 'big bad words' you offered as an example of my 'hate speech' were a mild yet accurate, IMHO, discription of "how 'an' argument was delivered" (sorry if this discription of the strength of the arguement offened you) which is a far cry from constantly "declaring faiths" as, "smut", "vile", "disgusting" and so on and on and on, untempered with "I'm sorry to say this is how I feel", "not wishing to offend", or "I could be wrong, but", or other sound reasonings for the justification of useing such damning, judgemental, hateful, enflaming language.

Again, I wasn't "complaining" of "hurt feeling" but pointing out that the language and tone fits the discription of "hate speech" which in many countries is A CRIME and doesn't comply with the terms and conditions of this board yet failed to earn a "warn".

Suzy, I think you would have done well to have listened to Charlie Murphy....

Thread Closed...

Okay – School’s back in session

But a final warning here…The next member(s) who continue to verbally harass another’s ideology is getting a red flag warn…

None of this “people who believe in that are a bunch of drugged out fools” or “ATS mods shouldn’t allow this to be said” crap…

Not gonna take it….No sirey…

You're the bestest. There was a particular point I was hoping to address and now it seems I can. Huzzah! Muchas gracias.

The topic is:

Conspiracies in Religions » The Anti-Christian conspiracy

Not "Nazi Mods," ATS board policies, or personal aspects of particular members.

Deviations from said topic will result in administrative sanctions.

The poo flinger has spoken.

Originally posted by Al Davison
I've written plenty, already, to express my views that I do not believe that any such anti-Christian conspiracy exists.

I've stated 3 times on the thread who the conspirators were, I can give names (if it weren't rude to do so), where they're located, what their agenda is, and how they go about doing it...yet... still no one would like to address that. I think one thing is for sure that this thread has proven, is no matter how direct I can be, all these "rabbit trails" and spin crop up when the issue is brought up. I wonder why that is...

[edit on 13-12-2005 by saint4God]

can we get back on topic?

maybe we should adress what is so detrimental about a conspiracy against christianity or what the effects of this supposed conspiracy are. okay?

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by Al Davison
I've written plenty, already, to express my views that I do not believe that any such anti-Christian conspiracy exists.

I've stated 3 times on the thread who the conspirators were, I can give names (if it weren't rude to do so), where they're located, what their agenda is, and how they go about doing it...yet... still no address for that. I think one thing is for sure that this thread has proven, is no matter how direct I can be, all these "rabbit trails" and spin crop up when the issue is brought up. I wonder why that is...

I've read them. I just don't find the "evidence" of this "conspiracy" to be compelling so, we'll just agree to disagree and maybe continue to make points that are directly related to the subject at hand.

Now, I do find that it is fair and not out-of-bounds to counter-point some claims by the radical Right-Wing Evangelicals (not talking about those on this board) that their way is the only way and since the Bible tells us that this is true and the majority believe in the Bible then, that should suffice as truth.

Why don't I accept any resistance to that kind of statement and/or action as proof of a conspiracy? Well, that's pretty easy to answer. If one does not believe that the Bible is The Word of God or even if two or more people who do believe the Bible is The Word of God but they disagree with each other on the interpretations and meanings, then that simply negates any idea that there is anything more than different opinions. Different opinions can become conspiracies but there does not seem to be any organization or pre-arranged agreement amongst the "unbelievers" that fits any definition of "conspiracy" that I've seen. Here's one:

con·spir·a·cy (kən-spîr'ə-sē) pronunciation
n., pl. -cies.

1. An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.
2. A group of conspirators.
3. Law. An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime or accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action.
4. A joining or acting together, as if by sinister design: a conspiracy of wind and tide that devastated coastal areas.

[Middle English conspiracie, from Anglo-Norman, probably alteration of Old French conspiration, from Latin cōnspīrātiō, cōnspīrātiōn-, from cōnspīrātus, past participle of cōnspīrāre, to conspire. See conspire.]

Really, it's just individuals acting upon their own sets of beliefs, both theological and political, and having the right to follow their own hearts and minds. There are many foods I don't like. In some cultures, certain foods considered delicacies are considered by most Western cultures as disgusting but, still, it's hardly a conspiracy against the foods or the chefs who prepare them.

[edit on 13-12-2005 by Al Davison]

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
can we get back on topic?

On topic? How does Saint talking about conspirators here on ATS itself off topic?

maybe we should adress what is so detrimental about a conspiracy against christianity or what the effects of this supposed conspiracy are. okay?

Well, we all thank you for your suggestion of where the topic should go. I'm curious, you made it sound as though a conspiracy against Christianity would be a good thing. Why do you think so?

Effects of this conspiracy? Flooding people's minds with half-truths, misleading people using dubious evidence, and then trying to change the topic whenever the argument gets a little close to home can have the same effect political spin does. You can fool people. If Christianity is so blatantly wrong, why resort to twisting words and changing subjects to those where there's more sure footing when it comes to twisting facts? I would think that, if it is so blatantly wrong as so many here on ATS and across the Western world like to claim, that in an argument free of any kind of spin would throw any Christian, no matter how educated, on their butt in shock over how wrong they are. Even if they were to grasp to faith in the midst of obvious fact, onlookers would be convinced there's nothing to this false religion known as Christianity.

JJ, you're not using any examples there, i need examples of half truths and lies that are supposedly flooding people's minds.

i also just threw that first question out there for giggles (about the conspiracy possibly being good).

[edit on 13-12-2005 by madnessinmysoul]

Originally posted by Al Davison
If one does not believe that the Bible is The Word of God or even if two or more people who do believe the Bible is The Word of God but they disagree with each other on the interpretations and meanings, then that simply negates any idea that there is anything more than different opinions.

I agree, and that's not a conspiracy nor what I'm speaking of.

Originally posted by Al Davison
Different opinions can become conspiracies but there does not seem to be any organization or pre-arranged agreement amongst the "unbelievers" that fits any definition of "conspiracy" that I've seen. Here's one:

Satanism. Though maybe not apparent, the fringes of which can be seen as ripples in society. The closer you get to the rock that's dropped into the pond, the clearer that becomes. Satanism. Not "soft Satanism" that doesn't believe in Satan, but those who worship the devil as lord and master Satanism. Not Dana Carvey "church lady" Satanism, but those who meet and carry out sacrifices to him, torture, intimidate, and practice hedonism on an organized (though they claim chaos) basis. Apologies for not being candid enough before. Okay, so if you've never seen Satanism, I have two things to say about that. Thank God for that, and all the better I think.

Originally posted by Al Davison
con·spir·a·cy (kən-spîr'ə-sē) pronunciation
n., pl. -cies.

1. An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.

Criteria met.

Originally posted by Al Davison
2. A group of conspirators.

Criteria met.

Originally posted by Al Davison
3. Law. An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime or accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action.

Criteria met.

Originally posted by Al Davison
4. A joining or acting together, as if by sinister design: a conspiracy of wind and tide that devastated coastal areas.

Criteria met.

Originally posted by Al Davison
Really, it's just individuals acting upon their own sets of beliefs, both theological and political, and having the right to follow their own hearts and minds. There are many foods I don't like. In some cultures, certain foods considered delicacies are considered by most Western cultures as disgusting but, still, it's hardly a conspiracy against the foods or the chefs who prepare them.

This is a rationalization that doesn't fit the definition above.

[edit on 14-12-2005 by saint4God]

Saint - OK, I see what you mean if you include Satanism (in the form you describe it) and, of course, I've never seen it. I am only aware of it at all through rumors and some sensationalist stories - some of which may be true; I can't say that they are or aren't since I don't know enough about it.

But, I have to wonder, can Satanism be truly considered an anti-Christian conspiracy or is it really an "anti-G-d" or even an "anti-Good" conspiracy? It seems that it is more the "anti-G-d/Good" to me. Now, for Christians, that equates to anti-Christianity because Christianity is their way of worshipping G-d. But, you can take this a step further because it gets to the heart of one of the main points that has been discussed, repeatedly, here: a difference of opinion as to whether Christianity can rightfully claim to be the " primary or singularly wronged party" whenever a group goes against G-d. For me, the answer is "no, they cannot" because Christians don't "own" G-d.

That is what creates some of the backlash against Christianity - the perception that Christians make statements that others will interpret as an attempt to monopolize G-d. I've said this before because I hear it and read it far too often - a statement like "are you a Christian or an Atheist?"

Certainly, Saint, I'm not accusing you of this kind of thing. I have a lot of respect for the way you practice your religion and the character you've shown. I'm not talking a lot about my own feelings, either, though I admit that I've become much more sensitive to statements from Christians that do somehow claim that I can't possibly have any relationship to G-d without being a Christian. It's that polarization and false dichotomey that is causing a lot of hurt from something that should really be the balm to help heal our hurts.

See where I'm coming from? I hope so. This was not intended as a "rebuttal" just a different perspective.

Al makes a good point. an attack on what is good (in certain people's view a divine being) doesn't necessarily mean a conspiracy against one specific group. satanism could just be a conspiracy against selflessness or decency, and not against any specific religion promoting those (or other similar) values.

What many fail to grasp or admit, is that satanist, the commited practicing ones, are in government, the media, big business, medicine, science, education, "Christian" 'churches', service groups, think tanks, etc., at every level of society and from these positions of influence they drip feed propaganda.

God, then Christianity are their main targets.

Ever notice how often people are encouraged to "look into" just about every other 'faith' under the sun, from Buddism to occult practices, as beliefs to learn 'good things' from, yet Christianity is played down, or out right attacked, as superstition, The cause of wars, etc.?

If the truth of the Christian message wasn't such a threat to "them" there wouldn't be so much diverting to "other paths" as worthwhile.

Another example of the effective (because of it's subtlety) drip feeding method, is one of our 'news' programmes, that in doing "holiday season" reports says, "The 'Holiday season' is a time of 'joy' and 'family' BUT for MANY CHRISTMAS is..." everything negative under the sun. They never switched from this, Christmas-bad, Holidays-good, 'labling', report after report.

so you're acting as if buddhism, a religion established well before christianity, and other religions are pushed due to satanic influences?

if i was satan, i'd steer as many people away from buddhism as possible.
hell, i'd steer them away from all active participation in spirituality.

and suzy, i'd like to hear of this "propaganda" you speak of...

[edit on 14-12-2005 by madnessinmysoul]

Originally posted by suzy ryan
What many fail to grasp or admit, is that satanist, the commited practicing ones, are in government, the media, big business, medicine, science, education, "Christian" 'churches', service groups, think tanks, etc., at every level of society and from these positions of influence they drip feed propaganda.
...

Wow! I'd like to know more about this, please!

I mean, I really did not know there were more than a handful of Satanists in the world and I've always considered them to be just some fringe nutcases and misfits.

Originally posted by Al Davison
I mean, I really did not know there were more than a handful of Satanists in the world and I've always considered them to be just some fringe nutcases and misfits.

There are more than that, but those are the pseudo-satanists who follow the Satanic Bible which really isn't Satanism. However, Satanists as you conceive of them do exist. I hope you're right about the number.

I suspect what Suzy's talking about stems, generally, from 1 John 2:22. Now, go with me here, because you're talking with Christians about a conspiracy they perceive, so you're going to have to accept some assumptions they have that you may not in order to discuss this issue on their level. Christianity is the one true religion, and no one comes to the Father except through the Son.

There are two sides in this battle being waged on Earth for each of our souls. There's Christ and God, and there's Satan. Like Bush said, you're either with us our you're against us. He didn't pull that out of nowhere, it's scriptural. If you are, as John put it, an Antichrist, that would imply you're working against Christ. In the Christian world view, of which I take part, if you're working against Christ, you're working to condemn others to Hell. If you're working to condemn others to Hell, you're working for the enemy, whom we generally call Satan. Therefore, if you are actively working against Christ and the salvation He provided, you are a supporter of Satan, or a Satanist.

By that definition...Well, Al, I have bad news...It's not just a hand full, and you're a member.

EDIT: Side note: Christians, according to Christ, are told to love anti-Christs. By John's definition, until you consciously accepted Jesus Christ into your heart as your lord and savior, you, too, were an Antichrist. Had not someone come to you and shown you enough love to be concerned about your wellbeing, you still would be, and therefore you need to extend that love to anyone else who hasn't found salvation.

[edit on 12/14/05/14 by junglejake]