Did China's New Plague Really Start In An Illegal Animal Market?

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: burdman30ott6

This is the first conspiracy theory in a while that gave me pause. Kudo's for that.

DOcean's addition makes it even more interesting. Makes me wonder if it's possible animals from the lab might end up in the market somehow. One to ponder.

Also at play is the fact that China openly allows experimentation on primates (and considering their human rights track record, I wouldn't be shocked if they also allow it on humans.) That's long been considered a really horrible idea as it speeds the bridging of species for viruses.

www.scientificamerican.com...

China’s high-tech industrialization policy, known as Made in China 2025, purports to take the country to the front ranks of advanced manufacturing in aerospace, robotics, clean energy, transportation and the life sciences. But the transformation into a global biotech and pharmaceutical dynamo might prove more challenging than making robots or self-driving cars.

That is because China lacks a good regulatory and ethical review process, a serious problem highlighted last November when scientist He Jiankui gave the world an unwelcome surprise. He announced that he had edited the genes of twin girls at the embryo stage with the aim of enhancing their resistance to HIV—an experiment with the potential to produce a host of genetic and health problems that could be passed on to the twins’ offspring.

At some point the international community is going to have to start treating these Island of Dr Moreau like rogue medical ethics states with a firmer hand. It's arguably more disasterous if things go horribly wrong with genetic splicing and viral manipulations than even a "rogue" state developing nukes. Say North Korea develops a nuke and delivers it to a major city... tens of thousands are exposed and die while the immediate impacts are confined mostly to a radius around the impact site. If, however, a country fumbles their way into making Marberg more virulent or mutates Smallpox to something resistant to vaccines and treatment the entire globe is immediately impacted and it becomes a real life game of Plague, Inc.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Is this the stuff that was flown by drone to the Chinese country side and dropped?
Looking for that thread, only within the last month.

originally posted by: Bigburgh
a reply to: burdman30ott6

Is this the stuff that was flown by drone to the Chinese country side and dropped?
Looking for that thread, only within the last month.

Nah,that was the African swine fever-But it illustrates the crazy mentality of how some criminals in china are willing to use animals in a very unethical manner for profit-

Here’s a new and dishonest way to use drones. According to the SUPChina, Chinese gangsters use drones to spread African swine fever to scare farmers into selling their animals at a discount before trafficking the sick pigs across province lines and selling them in “clean” areas.

dronedj.com...

a reply to: burdman30ott6
Here's my take. We all remember the poisoned toys, pet food and dry wall sent to the US from china. What if this was the next thing they were planning on sending to us, only it got out of the lab sooner then they planned?

a reply to: burdman30ott6
The Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses (IDSA)
China’s Biological Warfare Programme: An Integrative Study with Special Reference to Biological Weapons Capabilities

This study attempts to profile China’s biological warfare programme (BWP), with special reference to biological weapons (BW) capabilities that exist in facilities affiliated with the defence establishment and the military.

Link to the PDF
On page 145 (note: PDF starts on page 132.

Considering the entire profile of activities of the 32 listed facilities profiled in the present study, one can conclude that China is capable of developing, producing and weaponizing, on the whole, some 40 anti-human pathogens and toxins (P&T), either intact or genetically upgraded, if not largely engineered. In actuality, it is highly plausible that, at present, China possesses a lessened inventory of employable weaponized BWA. Presumably, it comprises a first generation of BWA (for example, plague and brucellosis germs) in an operational state; a second generation of BWA (for example, Hantan and Japanese Encephalitis viruses) in an operational state; plus a third generation of BWA (for example, SARS, Ebola and Influenza viruses) still under development, in part or entirely. Included are a considerable variety of P&T, both classic BWA and emergent P&T. Anti-livestock and anti-crop BWA are included as well in the Chinese BW inventory. A spectrum of toxins has been weaponized and others are under development as well, and might replace chemical warfare agents (CWA).

Starting on page 143

Facilities affiliated with the defence establishment are as follows: 1. State Research Center for Viro-Biotechnology Engineering; 2. Biological Engineering Design Institute; 3. China National Biotech Corporation; 4. Lanzhou Institute of Biological Products; 5. Changchun Institute of Biological Products ; 6. Wuhan Institute of Biological Products; 7. Chengdu Institute of Biological Products;
144Journal of Defence Studies 8. Beijing Institute of Technology; 9. Northwestern Polytechnical University;10. National University of Defense Technology;11. Shenyang Pharmaceutical University; and12. Shenzhen Jiusheng Biotechnology Products Plant.

Facilities affiliated with (owned by or integral to) the PLA are: 1. Zibo Baoding Biological Engineering Company; 2. Oriental Scientific Instruments Corporation; 3. Research Institute of Chemical Defense; 4. Institute of Biotechnology; 5. Institute of Bioengineering; 6. PLA Institute of Disease Control and Prevention; 7. Institute of Microbiology and Epidemiology; 8. Beijing Huifenglong Biotechnology Development; 9. Institute of Medical Equipment;10. Institute of Environment and Health;11. PLA Key Genetic Engineering Laboratory;12. Military Veterinary Institute;13. General Hospital Number 301;14. Infectious Diseases Hospital Number 302; 15. Second Military Medical University; 16. Third Military Medical University; 17. Institute of Military Medicine, Beijing (and/or Institute of Military Medicine, Lanzhou); 18. Institute of Military Medicine, Nanjing; 19. Center of Disease Control and Prevention, Shenyang; and 20. Center for Disease Control and Prevention, Chengdu

It certainly looks like there are lots of bio labs connected to the military establishment.

I come at this as someone who's had a viral infection in his lungs (2012) and have been following this very, very closely starting in December. Trust me, being that sick and your heart stopping from the fluids is not something I want to go through again.

I noticed the existence of the lab where all this started and the very odd finding (in my opinion) so quickly about the source. I'll add the two conferences from WHO who are still claiming that the animal source is still unknown (as of 2:00 pm, 1/23/20). Something just doesn't add up. If they "found" the market weeks ago and with WHO nattering on about how everyone is doing a boffo job on researching the virus but still can't figure out the animal source. And that lab. That's what gets me.

Granted I'm not an expert but really, it's not making sense.

originally posted by: billxam
I come at this as someone who's had a viral infection in his lungs (2012) and have been following this very, very closely starting in December. Trust me, being that sick and your heart stopping from the fluids is not something I want to go through again.

I noticed the existence of the lab where all this started and the very odd finding (in my opinion) so quickly about the source. I'll add the two conferences from WHO who are still claiming that the animal source is still unknown (as of 2:00 pm, 1/23/20). Something just doesn't add up. If they "found" the market weeks ago and with WHO nattering on about how everyone is doing a boffo job on researching the virus but still can't figure out the animal source. And that lab. That's what gets me.

Granted I'm not an expert but really, it's not making sense.

Alone that WHO wont call it as bad as it is as well as some saying “its from snake!” But WHO wont confirm..... whats going on.

I suggest people go youtube or twitter. Set filter to “Last hour”.... lots of videos coming out. It looks pretty damn serious....

So in china sick and dead animals that can not be taken to an official slaughter house get sent to roving illegal slaughter houses. Then the meat is mixed in with normal good meat at the markets. We are also talking about a group of people that mine gutter oil and reuse in street cooking. They go down into the sewers and dig out cooking oil that has solidified. They reheat and run it through a filter like cheeses clothe and reuse.

Nasty stuff and one wonders why crap happens there more than a place like India.

a reply to: Xtrozero
I would guess its a cultural thing-A large amount of Indians are either fully or predominantly vegetarian due to being Hindu.
Whereas In China,if it moves it goes in the pot.

a reply to: Blaine91555

That's the type of report that highlights how the United Nations is ineffective. It's not just China, either. All 5 permanent members of the UN Security Council have extensive bioweapon facilities despite the development of bioweapons being expressly forbidden per the Bioweapon Convention they all signed. Some, like the US, just changed the name of the division from Bioweapon Research to Bioweapon Defense and continued as they were before while others, like China and Russia, just pretend their bioweapons programs don't exist in public. Seems geared more towards giving the People a flase sense of security rather than actually making changes to really increase the physical security by ceasing all development and "playtime" with these deadly pathogens.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

I have no doubt they simply redefined it from offensive to defensive to justify it.

I have little doubt the US is neck deep in it along with all the usual players.

I'm a bit amazed we have not seen it all go terribly wrong already. I agree, the world needs to end all science targeted at BW research, but it will not happen. Lord know how many facilities exist in the world. We can't disarm until our potential enemies disarm and so it continues.

All it would take is one sample being moved to a different location to be stolen or mishandled and we are screwed.

That's why King's novel and movie, The Stand, still is unnerving to think of. I watched it again a few weeks ago and it still has the same impact. "Don't Fear the Reaper"

***DON'T READ THIS POST IF YOU DON'T WANT ELEVATED STRESS LEVELS***
Just read this article and it paints a bit more of the picture.
www.greenwichtime.com...

Ahead of the holiday, authorities initially said that the virus, which began in a Wuhan food market selling exotic animals for consumption, was mild and could not be transmitted between humans. But that changed this week when the number of people infected by the virus, which has an incubation period as long as 14 days, began to rise rapidly.

Even one of the government's top experts, who had played down the prospects for widespread infection, contracted the virus.

In Macao, where one case has been found, the government said it might shut down the territory's casinos if the epidemic worsens. Macao's gambling sector is seven times the size of Las Vegas's. The authorities have already called off a public festival to ring in the new year.

One of the most densely populated cities in the world is talking about closing shop after one (1) confirmed case of this virus. Beijing knows what this is and, more critically, they seem to know what it is capable of. That adds even more doubt over their official story of it to me. Either we can add "mutates at an amazing rate" to the list of coincidences surrounding the virus, or it was engineered in some fashion to become incredibly virulent, because given the information we have been officially told, there's no way they'd even consider closing down Macau's gambling facilities over a single confirmed case.

Rebecca Zhang had tried to get treatment for her 65-year-old father, who developed a fever on Jan. 13, at two hospitals in Wuhan, but they were turned away because of a "lack of capacity." The hospitals refused to even test him for the coronavirus, apparently to avoid having to admit him, Zhang wrote on Weibo.

Other hospitals would not see him without a positive diagnosis of coronavirus. "He was stuck in an infinite loop!" she wrote on Wednesday, saying he had still not been admitted despite scans showing serious inflammation in both lungs.

This seems to indicate there are many, many cases in China and the system is not diagnosing them so they're not added to the growing numbers of infected.

While it isn't what this topic is about and is more directed at a general discussion of the virus, itself rather than any conspiracy theory on it's origin or a cover up, this following quote isn't good in any way.

As the uncertainty continued, Guan, the virologist who identified SARS, offered a chilling perspective on the outbreak.

"I've seen it all: bird flu, SARS, influenza A, swine fever and the rest. But the Wuhan pneumonia makes me feel extremely powerless," he told Caixin. "Most of the past epidemics were controllable, but this time, I'm petrified."

There's way too many outbrakes originating from China...it's just plain obvious at this point

"In order to comply with epidemic prevention and control works, and to put people's lives, safety, and health in the first place, mass gatherings should be reduced in order to ensure a harmonious and peaceful Spring Festival," the Beijing Culture and Tourism Bureau said in a statement.

"It is decided that Beijing will cancel all large-scale events, including temple fairs, effective from today," it said.

The Forbidden City, the old imperial palace in the heart of Beijing and one of China's top tourist attractions, said it was closing its doors until further notice "in order to avoid cross-infection caused by the gathering of people."

Authorities in Wuhan announced even more stringent measures. In addition to banning public gatherings, local officials, wearing masks, announced that the start of the spring semester at all Hubei province schools would be delayed because of the outbreak.

That's the equivalent of us cancelling Christmas. At first I thought it was just hype and the fears were unfounded, but this gives me pause.

a reply to: Blaine91555

It doesn't make any sense IF they total number of infected is at 650-700, which is today's official range. They didn't take steps to this degree even at the height of the SARS outbreak, which "officially" had 10 times as many cases and 30 times as many deaths. Something is clearly happening that the public isn't being told.

You all are so great at investigating and reporting back to us here.

All this makes me wonder though..

If it supposedly started with some type of animal, than can it be transmitted to other animals, besides us?

If it has an incubation period, as long as up to 14 days, couldn't it already be on each continent?

Are the pics that some of you finding, (I don't want to go looking) of people already expired, or just very bad off? I mean, I'm wondering if it really makes you bleed out, are people not making it to the hospital on time?

Very scary to think about all this.

a reply to: chiefsmom

well video are starting to pop on twiter of ppl falling in the street hope they are fakes one! If not we are in for a bumpy ride.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: burdman30ott6
Makes me wonder if it's possible animals from the lab might end up in the market somehow. One to ponder.

holy balls

I never thought of that

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: Blaine91555

It doesn't make any sense IF they total number of infected is at 650-700, which is today's official range. They didn't take steps to this degree even at the height of the SARS outbreak, which "officially" had 10 times as many cases and 30 times as many deaths. Something is clearly happening that the public isn't being told.

People in Wuhan were reporting hospitals turning away patients because they were full - this was back 1-2 weeks ago.

There are cases popping up of a father being infected, then the son coming down ill. So it spreads, if sick people went home then its likely their family also have it.

The British backpacker (and another infection I cant remember where) stated he got a fever, but no other symptoms. The fever lasted days... people with hot flushes/fevers wouldn't assume to have corona-virus and likely went about their normal days.

650 is the number of 'confirmed' cases.

The number of people who are sick and haven't been confirmed will be in the 10's of thousands by now

originally posted by: chiefsmom
If it supposedly started with some type of animal, than can it be transmitted to other animals, besides us?

Some can, most cannot without mutations. Doing some additional reading on that has indicated that historically, West Nile Virus seems to be the only virus talked about which has been known to be cross communicable between humans and reptiles. West Nile requires an insect intermediary to jump from reptile to human, though. (and, adding to what others have said in this thread, West Nile is hemorrhagic.)

I don't buy the snake explanation to any degree anymore. When I started the thread, I said the official story was the best money bet... I've read too much today to keep believing that.

Also I would bet this is now present on every continent aside from Antarctica. Officially it has been confirmed in Asia, Africa (Saudi Arabia), and North America (USA). I'd find it highly likely it is also in Europe and South America. Such is the era of easy air travel when a traveler can board an airplane in Beijing and land anywhere in the world within 24 hours while carrying a virus that takes nearly 2 weeks to produce symptoms.