Did China's New Plague Really Start In An Illegal Animal Market?

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Maybe the rest of the world should immediately halt all exports from china whether it is goods or people, until this mess gets sorted out.

a reply to: highvein

with the up to 15 days of incubation it's already to late to stop mass movement

www.dailystar.co.uk...

News media confirmation of people collapsing in the streets. Unbelievable.

a reply to: highvein

You know, when the USA immediately "blessed" Japan's handling of Fukushima and multiple authorities from pretty much every significant nation all played the "calm down, everything is fine" card, I realized that no nation is going to stick their neck out for their own citizens if it means having to rock the boat. We can "hope" each of our countries would do the right thing and take EVERY precaution, but at the end of the day those hopes usually seem to be foolishly placed on a system that is too entangled globally and too dependent on the possibility of needing the other countries to cover their asses somewhere down the road to realistically expect protectionist policies to take hold.

I sure as hell wouldn't order anything from Alibaba for the next few months, though.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

History records China is known for valuing 'social status' over human life.

Why would that change now?

It hasn't.

Especially now.

originally posted by: silo13
a reply to: burdman30ott6

History records China is known for valuing 'social status' over human life.

Why would that change now?

It hasn't.

Especially now.

I was specifically talking about countries like the US "banning China imports." Obviously China's track record on treatment of their citizens proves they do not care, but there are countries out there who project a mixed message on that front, including the good old US of A.

Did China's New Plague Really Start In An Illegal Animal Market?

Doesn't look like it ...

The Real Umbrella Corp: Wuhan Ultra Biohazard Lab Was Studying "The World's Most Dangerous Pathogens"

Now that not one but seven Chinese cities - including Wuhan, ground zero of the coronavirus epidemic - and collectively housing some 23 million people, are under quarantine ... comparisons to the infamous Raccoon City from Resident Evil are coming in hot and heavy. And, since reality often tends to imitate if not art then certainly Hollywood, earlier today we jokingly asked if the Medical Research Institute at Wuhan University would end up being China's version of Umbrella Corp.

The implications can be much more profound if you stop and think about it...

In the Movie Contagion, ground zero was China, can you imagine the parallels?

As more and more people become infected with no cure in sight, social order begins to decay, with rampant looting of stores and homes. The U.S. President is moved underground while emergency services suffer absenteeism and no longer respond. Attempts to escape are futile as the borders are closed.

Lets hope things don't get worse.

a reply to: Arnie123

Let's stop freaking out until we get some real information.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Arnie123

Let's stop freaking out until we get some real information.

Honest question because I respect your personally educated opinion on this matter... would China restrict and even cancel Chinese New Year festivities in Beijing over an illness that has "only" claimed 18 lives and infected less than 1,000 confirmed people? In your eyes, does that action point towards something significantly more serious than we're being lead to believe?

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Arnie123

Let's stop freaking out until we get some real information.

Honest question because I respect your personally educated opinion on this matter... would China restrict and even cancel Chinese New Year festivities in Beijing over an illness that has "only" claimed 18 lives and infected less than 1,000 confirmed people? In your eyes, does that action point towards something significantly more serious than we're being lead to believe?

I do think they have a problem, but ...

My husband works with a guy from China, epidemiologist/immunologist, who has family and "channels" back to the country. His coworker is keeping a wary eye on this, but isn't freaking out over this just yet. This same person has been keeping close tabs on the swine disease going on back home too. Those things do impact people he cares about.

So we're all in watching mode. It's not something to ignore at all. I think there is a problem there, but at the same time, we are talking about an authoritarian state that thinks nothing of chucking its people into concentration camps too. If they think they can control the spread of a troublesome disease by effectively cancelling Christmas, what stops them? I don't think they did it lightly, but neither do I think conditions have to be anything near what they would have to be here in order for the state to consider that step.

www.dailymail.co.uk...


a reply to: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Arnie123

Let's stop freaking out until we get some real information.

I'm not freaking out, I'm pointing out simple parallels, because people in general freak out about germs.

As for more information, by your own admission, an authoratorian state isn't going to be truthful and media is being watchful, so what do we have left? Freelance journalism and reporting.

The OP made clear a few points that are indeed facts, implementing logic, shows thar there is something brewing that's being clamped down.

I'm sure you chinese friend is being truthful, or probably saving face too, but you can't deny the reports that are popping up ALL OVER THE WORLD.

a reply to: Arnie123

It is, but consider ... this was already circulating before the press picked it up. It had to be, so if it was as bad as say ... the movie Contagion, we are already screwed. It would have been everywhere, or it already is. So either it generally isn't as bad as advertised - or - it isn't as contagious as advertised because it hasn't spread that quickly.

None of that means it isn't a bad, bad thing to get or that it isn't contagious enough to be a real problem, but it does mean it probably isn't the worse case scenario.

originally posted by: shooterbrody

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: BillyJoeeOzark
It is called the wu-flu

As long as they don't start calling it Captain Trips...

And S&F for the OP... some thought-provoking "coincidences" there...

~pondering~

oh crap
not that
m-o-o-n
that spells tom cullen

Baby can you dig your man...

Id better stock up on my Flu-Buddy.

Seriously though we can laugh about it a little now and even if this isn't our time yet, this has almost always been the most likely way the world ends as we know it. Not nuclear, or an asteroid or alien invasion just plan old somebody left the mayonnaise jar out to long and then put it back in the fridge.

OK, I am thinking about this.

First press reports were Dec. 22, right? In those reports, we had hundreds of victims and over 10 deaths. It didn't just start like that.

We know the virus incubates for between 2/3 and 14 days, so that gives you an idea of how long a cycle goes from one wave to the next. We don't know when a person becomes contagious but it certainly isn't going to be the entire incubation period. But this could have started in late September? Definitely going on in November.

There have been people getting ill and moving through Wuhan all that time and about China and around the world from Wuhan. But we're just now seeing cases pop up outside the country? That says it isn't as readily infectious as a simple casual cough or sneeze in most cases, and believe it or not, that's a good thing.

originally posted by: ketsuko
OK, I am thinking about this.

First press reports were Dec. 22, right? In those reports, we had hundreds of victims and over 10 deaths. It didn't just start like that.

We know the virus incubates for between 2/3 and 14 days, so that gives you an idea of how long a cycle goes from one wave to the next. We don't know when a person becomes contagious but it certainly isn't going to be the entire incubation period. But this could have started in late September? Definitely going on in November.

There have been people getting ill and moving through Wuhan all that time and about China and around the world from Wuhan. But we're just now seeing cases pop up outside the country? That says it isn't as readily infectious as a simple casual cough or sneeze in most cases, and believe it or not, that's a good thing.

I'm not buying that, Agi has a new thread up on updates, which paint an even grimer picture.

a reply to: ketsuko

No. China didnt identify it until December 31, first death was January 11.
www.channelnewsasia.com...

This is actually in line with how Pandemic models with similar incubation rates start out.

a reply to: ketsuko

I hope you're right.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Maybe. I recall the first reports having higher numbers indicating that it had been active for longer, and China being China had not said anything because China.

Once they realized they could not contain it and hide it, then they let reports start to get out meaning they had a bigger problem than they were letting on.

I hope I am right too because the traditional model is a problem. As I have said, the real problem right now is that no one really knows because this is all in China. We won't know for sure until we see it in countries not inclined to hide the truth or with no reason to.