Did China's New Plague Really Start In An Illegal Animal Market?

But than again China has a massive looming problem with the disparity between men and women in their population. It is simply unsustainable; imagine trying to run an authoritarian government when your population filled to the brim with angery MGTOW type men?

But what if you engineered a virus that has many of the traits of turing into a pandemic; but isn't quite that deadly. You have just created the perfect situation where you can start a male genocide in your country with out to much fear that your foreign adversaries will retaliate... we won't risk a war with China cause a few people in Tennessee get the flu.

originally posted by: TritonTaranis
ive seen alot of CCP Commies claiming its a US Bioweapon attack

that probably explains why theyve allowed it to escape china and bring the world down with it

there are now videos online circulation of people collapsed on the streets in puddles of blood... time to panic

It could be though because US is an unregulated Capitalist country where big pharma controls all medicine. Even the medicines in big pharma uses are becoming immune to super bugs. The Virus is not natural, but of lab. If it was, it wouldn't spread like crazy. China would be dead long ago if it was an anceint virus. This means US gov is not doing its jobs on hunting biological warfare since the testing its own citizens with Nazi scientists.

"Suit up with hazmat suit and bring flamethrowers, cremate any labs you find that has nothing to do with scientific research but of bioweapons."

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

I posted an account of Spanish Flu. In severe cases, it did cause people to cough up blood or bleed from the nose or even ears. And the description was "pouring" not just bleeding.

So if the virus attacks mucus membranes of the respiratory tract that badly, then they will bleed and possibly quite profusely. You don't need to make it worse by freaking out over hemorrhagic fever.

I can see a victim of coronavirus bleeding, even profusely... but I would expect it to happen with a victim that has already sickened to the point of not being ambulatory.
The videos of people keeling over while walking down the street and having blood running out of their nose/mouth is concerning.

The only video I've seen that showed what might have been blood under the face of someone passed out on the street also showed a man topple over. He passed out without even getting his arms in front of him to catch himself. His face/head were the first thing to make contact with the sidewalk. At this point, I am taking the "pool of blood" stories with a grain of salt as we do not have any evidence yet that suggests the blood isn't from trauma. If reports start coming in of upright and conscious people bleeding, then that may change.

originally posted by: Skorpiogurl
a reply to: ketsuko

Yes I agree - hunger can motivate people to do horrible things. But will power can be just as powerful. Have you ever fasted? after the first couple of days you don't feel hungry anymore. Aside from the garbage they eat and the disease that comes out of that country I have a big problem with them for a lot of other reasons.

People living on the razor's edge of starvation don't "fast" they starve to death. Your experiences as a person living in the basket of plenty which is the Western world do not relate in any way to third world people who have to deal with a daily combination of severe malnutrition and a laundry list of parasites and water borne illnesses.

originally posted by: DanDanDat
Does anyone find it odd that this outbreak started just as the Chinese and Trump administration came to a phase one negotiation over their trade war? And that it also coincides with the Trump impeachment trial?

From the last two days of Senate trial opening statements we already know that the President only cares about the big stuff (stuff that affects himself of course) and what's bigger than his ouster from office. We also know Trumps MO is to use his foreign counterparts to create a media circus that benefit him.

So an engineered out brake of a scary looking virus at the same time the impeachment trial is underway? Sounds like a small piece for the Chinese to start the process of rolling back tariffs.

1: outbreak, not "out brake"
2. I was wondering when we'd first see the lunacy of trying to use this for political gains by clumsily calling it some sort of distraction would appear on ATS... you did not disappoint.

I'm more than a bit leery of buying into the video's of people falling over. First of all, the flu does not mean people are not also having heart attacks and strokes that have nothing to do with the flu. We know their hospitals are overwhelmed, so I'd expect to see people unable to get into the hospital for non-flu related issues.

Having said that, the thing that bothers me most is cancellation of the holiday. They simply would not do that unless this is worse than advertised. China is many things, but it's also capitalist in a way that puts profits above people and it's very different than capitalism in the West. That tells me this is not good.

25 million people effectively under quarantine should give the world pause.

Center for Disease Control

CDC Response

CDC is closely monitoring this situation and is working with WHO.
CDC established a 2019-nCoV Incident Management Structure on January 7, 2020. On January 21, 2020, CDC activated its Emergency Response System to better provide ongoing support to the 2019-nCoV response.
On January 23, 2020, CDC again raised its travel alert for the coronavirus outbreak. The travel notice for Wuhan City was raised from Level 2: Practice Enhanced Precautions to Level 3: Avoid Nonessential Travel. CDC also issued a Level 1: Practice Usual Precautions for the rest of China.
CDC also is conducting entry screening of passengers on direct and connecting flights from Wuhan, China to five major airports: Atlanta (ATL), Chicago (ORD), Los Angeles, (LAX) New York city (JFK), and San Francisco (SFO).
CDC issued an updated interim Health Alert Notice (HAN) Advisory to inform state and local health departments and health care providers about this outbreak on January 17, 2020.
A CDC team has been deployed to support the ongoing investigation in the state of Washington in response to the first reported case of 2019-nCoV in the United States, including potentially tracing close contacts to determine if anyone else has become ill.
CDC has developed a real time Reverse Transcription-Polymerase Chain Reaction (rRT-PCR) test that can diagnose 2019-nCoV. Currently, testing for this virus must take place at CDC, but in the coming days and weeks, CDC will share these tests with domestic and international partners through the agency’s International Reagent Resourceexternal icon.
CDC also is sequencing the entire genome of the virus from the first reported case in the United States and plans to upload the sequence to GenBank and GISAID when completed.
CDC also is growing the virus in cell culture, which is necessary for further studies, including for additional genetic characterization.

I know for a fact that the CDC downplays or simply does not report on deaths from the flu during bad outbreaks. I won't bore everyone with the story of how I know. Some years 30 or 40 thousand people die and some years as many as half of the people in nursing homes hit by the flu die in just a few weeks. It's never reported since it's a normal occurrence and it would just panic people.

I suppose right now we should not panic since this years strain of the annual flu outbreaks will likely kill more people than what we are talking about. To me it's more the fact it's an unknown and the lock down of 25 million people that troubles me.

To put it into perspective, Influenza-Like illness activity is high in around 30 states. LINK

Still, this one is clearly no joke with no vaccine available.

a reply to: DanDanDat

Please, please, please don't ruin this very interesting conversation by spreading political mud. Please

Link to AP article.

China expanded its lockdown against the deadly new virus to an unprecedented 36 million people and rushed to build a prefabricated, 1,000-bed hospital for victims Friday as the outbreak cast a pall over Lunar New Year, the country’s biggest, most festive holiday.

It was not clear just how lethal the virus is, or even whether it is as dangerous as ordinary flu, which kills tens of thousands of people every year in the U.S. alone.

This is pretty much what I was saying....

Still, 36 million people on lock down? The number changed from 30 million to 36 million just while I was reading the article.
LINK

Cutting off access to entire cities with millions of residents to stop a new virus outbreak is a step few countries other than China would consider, but it is made possible by the ruling Communist Party’s extensive social controls

Another topic altogether. China has such strangling social controls, it's the only country that could even shut down all those cities.

a reply to: Blaine91555

33 Million in the quarantine zone.

Also curious to me, Coast 2 Coast AM hasn't said much about this so far. I find that curious, very curious. They have historically jumped swiftly onto potential pandemic stories very early in the game and with dire predictions of doom yet they are eerily quiet to date about this. Those past predictions of doom were ultimately total hysterics and very little actually happened. It would be yet another coincidence if they just happened to decide not to push hysterics this time around. That said, their silence is in line with most mainstream media currently, which seems to be trying to only push official narratives and downplay or totally disregard anything that might cause wider concern. That would be great if not for the fact that the media ALWAYS pushes the envelope with these types of stories and tries to generate buzz and even panic (likely to position the government agencies saying "it's all going to be fine, stop worrying" as having been right all along once the scares are winding down.)

Nothing about this gives me confidence.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Yeah, I've noticed it's not really front page news, when normally I'd expect it to be. I can't help but wonder if the WHO and CDC have not asked the media to not hype it, to prevent needless panic. Right now it's not really a threat to anyone in the US and I suspect if it does not mutate and go away, it will be months before it is a threat here.

I completely ignored the SARS hype, but for some reason this one just feels different.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Also curious to me, Coast 2 Coast AM hasn't said much about this so far. I find that curious, very curious. They have historically jumped swiftly onto potential pandemic stories very early in the game and with dire predictions of doom yet they are eerily quiet to date about this. Those past predictions of doom were ultimately total hysterics and very little actually happened. ...

I think you pretty much answered your own curiosity.

Public apathy and media fatigue.

a reply to: Blaine91555

I think we will know in the next 10 days if it is an immediate threat to the US. The individuals who shared flights with people infected will show symptoms by then if they caught it. Then the clock starts ticking on everyone they came in contact with, etc. etc.

If the US only has cases of infected people who were physically in China in 10 days, we can breath sighs of relief.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: burdman30ott6

Also curious to me, Coast 2 Coast AM hasn't said much about this so far. I find that curious, very curious. They have historically jumped swiftly onto potential pandemic stories very early in the game and with dire predictions of doom yet they are eerily quiet to date about this. Those past predictions of doom were ultimately total hysterics and very little actually happened. ...

I think you pretty much answered your own curiosity.

Public apathy and media fatigue.

Then the timing is another amazing coincidence.

This time of year in China sees the biggest migration in the world as tens of millions of people travel back to their home towns.

It must have spread in a way that is going to be hard to comprehend.

So many people coming into contactwith infected people and then transporting it all over the country.

And world.

The one troubling thing I've seen so far is some of the prep measures being undertaken by China. Media reports have characterized some of the pictures as 'temporary hospitals', but they sure look a lot more like Level 3-4 biohazard isolation and containment units to me!

In my mind, the statistics are kind of irrelevant at this point (misinformation / propaganda, etc.), but stuff like that is visual proof of how serious the Chinese are taking this. They wouldn't set those types of installations up if this wasn't something pretty serious. I think they've got a major problem on their hands.

The big question mark in my mind is...is this outbreak a result of some experimental research the Chinese were conducting and it got away from them?

a reply to: burdman30ott6

I'm not sure I understand your reply.

What timing?

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: DanDanDat
Does anyone find it odd that this outbreak started just as the Chinese and Trump administration came to a phase one negotiation over their trade war? And that it also coincides with the Trump impeachment trial?

From the last two days of Senate trial opening statements we already know that the President only cares about the big stuff (stuff that affects himself of course) and what's bigger than his ouster from office. We also know Trumps MO is to use his foreign counterparts to create a media circus that benefit him.

So an engineered out brake of a scary looking virus at the same time the impeachment trial is underway? Sounds like a small piece for the Chinese to start the process of rolling back tariffs.

1: outbreak, not "out brake"
2. I was wondering when we'd first see the lunacy of trying to use this for political gains by clumsily calling it some sort of distraction would appear on ATS... you did not disappoint.

Thank you for correcting my spelling.

I'm glad I did not disappoint you

a reply to: Blaine91555

Thing that occurred to me while I was at work -

Does anyone recall how they handled the first ebola patients in the US? After discovering their hospital protocol was insufficient? They started packing them off to high containment facilities.

The situation is problematic in China, and we assume our officials know more. So why is the patient in Washington not in high containment? This thing, if advertised, would be more radioactively contagious right? But he is being handled in ways insufficient to contain the far less contagious ebola.

Just ... things that make you go, hmmm.

Personally, I think we have to separate this whole topic into two separate areas of discussion, both of which are clearly at play.

1. The virus itself, and illnesses/deaths associated with it as well as measures to contain it.

2. Media coverage of the virus. Clearly there are media outlets over-hyping this for a variety of reasons, the biggest one being revenue generation. There are also very likely a variety of political reasons to over-hype the story.

In order to get the closest to the truth, I think you have to read between the lines on both subjects.

a reply to: ketsuko

But do you know for certain how that patient is actually being treated?

Regarding Ebola; I'm not an epidemiologist by any stretch, but I think it's pretty safe to say this coronoavirus is not on the same level as Ebola. Ebola has a 'bad ju-ju' score of about 10, whereas coronavirus seems to have a bad ju-ju score of about 3'ish. Now, if some pictures start showing up in the media of people bleeding out through their rectums and other orifices then that might change things.