Dec 12th, 2019 UK General Election Thread

originally posted by: Freeborn
I've seen the factories close, the abandoned shipyards and engineering sites.
I've seen whole communities devastated by pit closures and works shutting.
I''ve been that man with no job, no prospects, no hope.....

Surely those shipyards were on ther way out anyway. It's terrible what happened but I can't see how one sector of the country should have funded through their taxes uncompetitive places like those yards. Even the yards in low wage zones have gone like the Polish yards. Their time had gone, the world unfortunately (and I believe there can be another way just not sure what it is ) moved on. When that happens and you have millions of people who were brought in hundreds of years ago by the Capitalists and suddenly everything has changed what to do with that locality? I don't know, me great granddad was a Jarrow marcher but when the jobs went in Easington then the family had to move on, it's easy to say really as for many it's impossible but when the world moves perhaps you have to move with it............... if the individual can but it's a tricky one and whoever is running our state the world moves on

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

I have no idea how old you are.....did you live through the 70's and 80's or did you read all that in a Tory election brochure?

The Unions did have too much power but its also equally true to say that management in most British industries at the time were also absolutely appalling and riddled with class prejudice, a 'jobs for the boys' approach and massively over-manned.

The Unions and their power needed checking.....Thatcher chose to do this by destroying whole communities and went way too far.

.... it a Commie plot

You don't really believe that, do you?

Lets not derail this thread by debating what is now 'history'.

I do agree that Corbyn is very, very dangerous for this country and we can not allow him to become Prime Minister.

I don't buy this unions being too powerful stuff.

Unions were the embodiment of democratic representation.
They were formed for, by and of the working people that comprised them.

There was no Labour Party until the unions created it.
There was zero representation for workers until the unions they created grew powerful enough to protect their interests.

Union power was destroyed by Thatcher because the unions could hold any government to account in a way that the electorate just cannot do and since union membership comprised a huge part of the population, one could argue that they did indeed protect the will of the people.

When Ted Heath's government signed us up to the EEC without a referendum, when his education minister, Thatcher, abolished free school milk among other things, when that government sought to tread on the working classes, it was the miners and their ilk who came together and went on a strike that destroyed the Heath government and brought in a Labour one. That's the heart of the tory hate fest against unions.

Unions give the little bloke too much of a say in how he is governed by these twits that infest parliament and it is telling that Labour, despite 13 years in power did nothing to repeal any of the destructive, vindictive anti union laws that the tories brought in.

For every idiot that called a strike over a table being moved in the mess room, there's ten managers deciding that 1940s machinery did not need replacing with newer stuff and consequently losing out in business to firms that did update such things.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Thatcher was a passionate anti-Communist.
She also opposed state subsidies.

To bring Scargill and his union in check she chose to destroy the coal industry.
A coal industry that was also hampered by appalling and weak management.

She used agent provocateurs to stir up violence on the picket line and other inflammatory and aggressive policing tactics.

She bought coal from communist countries like East Germany and Poland which was 100% subsidised by their respective communist states in order to help break the strike and subsequently destroy the whole industry.

Lots of those pits could still be producing coal at a profit if they had been managed properly and allowed to stay open.

As I said previously, its all history now and we most definitely do not want to go back to those times.
Neither do we want to go back to a Victorian like society which is what The Tories seem to want to do.

a reply to: SprocketUK

Great post.....I wish I could do more than just give it a star.

How about beer?

a reply to: Freeborn

Thanks mate and well, it is Friday after all!
Have one yourself!

originally posted by: Freeborn
Is that the same manufacturing that The Tories single-handedly destroyed?

What manufacturing did the Tories destroy?

I keep hearing this, but I think it's a myth. The big decline in UK manufacturing happened in the 1970s and was caused in part by the perpetual cycle of industrial disputes and actions motivated by a Loony Left Trade Union movement which was content to destroy British industry. Look at British Leyland as a case in point.

As it happens, today UK manufacturing is the ninth biggest - by output. Pretty much equal to France. We have world class companies in the UK and a diverse spread of manufacturing companies and sectors.

a reply to: paraphi

Excellent post and exactly how it is Just amazing how better the country is since those unions were crushed. Our local manufacturing as you say is in many cases world leaders it's just moved on from days of making ships and austin Allegros

Either of you guys ever ventured anywhere near the North East?

originally posted by: Freeborn
Either of you guys ever ventured anywhere near the North East?

That reminds me, i need another Tetanus shot.

a reply to: Freeborn

You do make some excellent points as is usually the case FB, the recent past maybe history as you call it but any future government needs judging on it's previous successes and failures if we are going to have some idea of what to expect in tye future if we vote this way or that way. I do believe what you're saying about them pits and many should have been phased out more slower, eben Heseltine wanted to continue coal mining in Britain and saw a future but events took over and I guess abig head to head emerged also oliek you say fears og a Heath repeat performance and well it's all the past now there's no going back. In areas like the NE when the jobs go I don't understand how te people maight expect some sort of golden hand to come along and replace their jobs for them. It a cut throat world out there, you just have to fight for life and move on. Being from Irish decent mentioned a few times o here your family must have back then in the day have moved to Great Britain when similar happened in Ireland and their jobs / chances went there. Before that your ancestors all moved in search of a better life all the way back to Africa back in the day so they say. People move where the game or now jobs go and today it's the same. Sometimes you just have to move on. Anyway it si Friday, the day is still young, politics debates will go on, electioneering will too, left and right will battle it out for eternity, your posts will be as riveting and interesting as they always are they are always great to read from someobe who has really lived an in teresting life , terrorists too will keep amok on London bridges, the Sun will set then tomorrow it will rise, beer will flow and flow and flow, have a great Friday FB

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

You can't judge current Governments by previous Governments. Differing policies, differing people involved. That holds as true for the Conservatives as it does for Labour. Would say the Lib Dems but Lloyd George made an art form of subverting Democracy by selling Peerages and Swinson is currently also trying her hardest to subvert Democracy.....

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Of course, it's Friday and we shouldn't be bothering ourselves with such trivialities....it's fast approaching pub o'clock.

Regards to the emergency services and public in the attack on London Bridge and my thoughts are with the victims.

a reply to: Freeborn

Pub o'Clock is off for me.

My boys train doesn't get in from Hull until 2100 so I have to just drink tea and wait. Hell probably get off drunk, at the wrong station too...

Wrong thread

a reply to: SprocketUK

Gutted for you mate.
You'll have to make up for it tomorrow night.

I'm getting a lift at 6pm down to my local then see what the night brings.
Last Friday strolled in at 4am.....

a reply to: Freeborn

Good job, fella.

I have a few IPA s in the fridge, so I'll have a couple when I stop being a taxi.

I already cooked the kid's dinner so all that's left is to warm it up and cook the Mrs dinner now.

Pretty easy night for me.

originally posted by: eletheia

And if Corbyn gets in with his spending plans, food banks will be the least of

problems....... the country will be bankrupt before the end of the five year

term of government.

Oh really. Says who? The tories by any chance? You'd take the word of a party who are led by a proven BS merchant

Try a more unbiased assessment of Corbyn's economic plans like the one in this link;

www.independent.co.uk...

He did promise to make America Great Again!!

And those are just words, that sound great i'm sure, they might even make people a little stiff, but they have no relation to reality

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
a reply to: jamespond

Hey James I said in another post that the 1% owners of the BIG supermarkets etc need reigning in and forced to pay a fair wage to the trollies pushers and shelf stackers to prevent the middle subsidisning their wages when the UK Oligarchs should be paying them a fair wage. Government must encourage / push this through but they all seem to be in on it with the City whether blue or red they all piss in the same pot

I get you but how can you say they're all the same? I don't know how old you are but i'm 37 and we've never had a prime minister like Corbyn in my lifetime, certainly Tony Blair's Labour party were nothing like what we're seeing today with Corbyn.

Since all we'll get form the Tories is more of the same I think Corbyn needs a chance. Incidents like those we've seen at Thomas Cook and Carillion recently, where companies have been run into the ground while the Directors have been pocketing millions of pounds in bonuses will become a thing of the past under Corbyn.

The Tories are a party for the rich and that's it, they prove it time and time again. Don't waste a vote on them if you're hoping for change.

originally posted by: Freeborn
Either of you guys ever ventured anywhere near the North East?

Yep. Lived in Middlesbrough. Go to Durham frequently, and Newcastle too. Why?

It would be great to see Teesside boosted by a free port if the UK ever manages to escape from the EU.