musings on bigfoot's elusiveness

a reply to: ignorant_ape

We don't know exactly what Bigfoot is.

For all we know, one of those fossils could be Bigfoot or an ancestor.

For all we know those Peruvian skeletal oddities could be Bigfoot... just a smaller tropical breed.

For all we know, the bili/Bondo ape could be something very closely related.

For all we know, this could be Bigfoot.

a reply to: ignorant_ape
Citing QM as the EXPLANATION? mate you are making yourself look like an idiot.
I said it was an out there idea, and have repeated that I believe nothing.
You even have to tag yourself as a sceptic with attitude, haha. I'm embarrassed for you.
Maybe your just having a bad day so I will give you the benefit of the doubt.
Ignorant Ape... How ironic.
I wonder if big foots believe in humans.

a reply to: reject
For all we know this could be bigfoot

a reply to: ignorant_ape

Mr. Ignorant Ape...

I've enjoyed some of your thoughts in a number of different categories and subjects. And I hope you'll continue to grace us with your esteemed thoughts. But a change in your verbiage would be greatly accepted (to all).

For some reason (for as smart as a guy you are), your still falling short on the mark on diplomacy in a speculative thread.. Musing's are not facts, they're stories, ideas, concept's. The dictionary states: "Musing definition, absorbed in thought; meditative. (Cambridge): "your thoughts or comments on something you have been thinking about carefully and for a long time".

We don't need to supply FACTs to back up a claim, because there's no claims here to back up.. they're just general ideas, thoughts... Continuing to go on and on about there's no proof about a large Bipedal using a cave system is no revelation to most of us as were still trying to find and provide proof that he/she/it exists at all.


I personally have audio recordings, I have prints, I have had several experiences with a large hairy Bipedal that wasn't a moose, a bear, a deer, buffalo or a giraffe for that matter. But none of that is worth a hill of beans and I know it because it's anecdotal for the most part. So I keep searching with the hopes to finding something Science might not be able to dismiss.

I personally enjoy hearing some of the wild and perhaps out-of-the-box ideas that are being presented because I'll be the last guy to say that I'm the smartest kid on the block. I'm far from that, but I'm pretty good at field research and have been successful in capturing/documenting a number of weird genres paranormal or not. I'm not an armchair athlete you see, I actually do go out for days, weeks at a time in hopes of getting 'something'. Continually looking for that jigsaw piece that will make the whole picture a bit easier to understand.

Were just passing thoughts to one another on this thread.. NOT FACTS but Musings. Please get with the program so I don't have to switch to my Mod hat. If our sharing of ideas and concepts here really irritates you, please don't let the door hit you in the arse as you explore any number of the 100 other avenues here at ATS. But I hope you'll be more civil in those arena's.


Johnny

a reply to: JohnnyAnonymous
Now I'm not claiming Bigfoot is interdimensional but I did have a wee look to see what other information there was out there on that possibility and I came across this
Now you would think I read this before I wrote my post stating that interdimensional entities could be the explanation for everything from Nessie to Aliens, but I really didn't, refreshing to see I'm not the only nut job out there that dared to think like that.

originally posted by: ManyMasks
a reply to: JohnnyAnonymous
Now I'm not claiming Bigfoot is interdimensional but......

Ok, since I usually fall down into the Rabbithole every once in awhile because it intrigues me. I don't like it because [1] I can't put my finger on the how's and why's by explaining it in logical scientific sense. Yet [2] I can't discount that they don't happen either, which again bothers me deeply (see [1], then wash and repeat).

So instead, I'm going to post a snippit from the Australian Yowie Hunters Forum where long-time researcher Dean Harrison of Australian Yowie Research has posted up some amazing reports. This thread I'm posting is by a member known as Pust and his idea/theory which may emulate some of your own thoughts ManyMask.

Paranormal vs Flesh and Blood - an occultist's perspective.

I've read or listened to most of the experiences here, and plenty others elsewhere. And in reading people's thoughts here and there, I've noticed a split in the community: between those who hard line believe that the Yowie can only be flesh and blood, 'like we are', and that no 'magic' is happening; and those who essentially believe they're godlike beings of pure energy who can materialise and dematerialise at will, shapeshift, etc etc. I might be exaggerating one or both sides, but not by much. I propose a solution. I've seen Dean say that, given the sheer number of 'spooky' and apparently magical experiences people have had - telepathy, appearing and disappearing at will, apparently projecting fear into every animal around them, etc - it can't really be ignored. Somehow it has to be explained; we can't just say that all these people are hallucinating. By the same token, these are big hairy smelly things that stomp their feet and make screaming noises, and they live in the forest. It seems like a paradox, but it needn't be, if we change a few of our assumptions about what exactly 'flesh and blood' means, and what 'mind' means.

And if by chance that intrigued you in any way feel free to read the rest over there.. It's much too wordy for me to post it all over here (and I'm tired... lol)
Johnny

a reply to: JohnnyAnonymous

I'm more inclined to think these people were shocked out of their senses leading them to think something supernatural just happened.

I read somewhere that our consciousness isn't like a light bulb that's always steadily on and that it's more like a slow blinker that waxes and wanes.

On top of that, add the primal fear of becoming food and for something that's not supposed to exist even.

originally posted by: reject
a reply to: JohnnyAnonymous
.....On top of that, add the primal fear of becoming food and for something that's not supposed to exist even.

Wish I could say that I've never thought or considered that every time I step foot in the woods. Before I really got into this (in a more serious way), I only worried about Bear, Mountain Lion's, Moose, Snakes and of course the worst animal of them all Man!

Johnny

a reply to: JohnnyAnonymous
Thanks Johnny it is interesting and I get how people say it must be flesh and blood because they could smell or hear, or it affected animals around them but so do things like poltergeist and other evil entities that people have witnessed, heard or smelled (most commonly a sulfur smell) , now I have to admit I haven't seen anything wholly conclusive that I could say right that's an alien a ufo or whatever but I believe others have as there are far too many claims to say it is nothing. Now you have seen things that are paranormal and I often wonder if it is because some people are more sensitive to the other energies that are out there, sometimes when I hear a noise at night and get a fright I will see a bright flash 8n my mind it happens very quickly even faster than one flash from a camera but I often wonder if that feeling of fear was prolonged then what would I see.
1because maybe 8ntense emotion can jolt the brain into seeing through those different layers you know. We are all different and may have different triggers, but if your mind is open to the possibility of there being other things out there then maybe that in itself would thin the veil, seek and ye shall find and all that. Its past my bed time also but will try and explain myself better tomorrow, cheers.

Rather than think about “glamour” as the article you cited Johnny refers to what the sasquatch/yowies do... which of course I can’t discount, and there are more things in heaven and earth, etc. etc. I tend to think that sometimes, our brains just will not let us SEE these beings. We hallucinate, in other words, in reverse.

I’ve also toyed with the idea that they have highly developed scent/pheromone-producing glands. ... that are probably keyed in to elements of our psyches buried deep evolutionarily. Of course this would suggest that we are more closely related than some might be comfortable with.

I think they probably communicate with each other via these scents ... and I think they have a few that have effects on other creatures, animals, humans, etc.:

1. Danger (or anger) scent. This is the sulfurous/skunky/rancid/rotten smell so often experienced.

2. Disorientation Scent ... maybe carbon monoxide (?) with a custom hormonal twist. I think this tends to make us lose time, wander off, Lose focus, wind up back at our cars, etc.

3. Fear/terror/“inspired flight” Scent; This might be combined with sonic/infrasound attacks.

4. Stunning: I think sometimes they just knock us unconscious for a few minutes.

5. Hallucinating: I think they can make us see “things” ... lights, orbs, etc. Conversely, I think this can also cause temporary blindness.... coupled with our own psyches defensive mechanisms.

I think we’ve all seen more of these things than we know/remember.

There’s also another element associated here ... and this might tend to run counter to what I said earlier to another poster ... but I think there’s a level of consciousness in which we have some level of control over our local environment in terms of ... anomalous happenings shall we say? I think there’s an element of our minds that we have referred to in the past with the idea of the Trickster but rather than this being some sort of “external” force to our own consciousnesses, it is in reality an integral part. It allows us on rare occasions to “look behind the curtain” and witness what some folks call “high strangeness” ... and I wonder if this doesn’t serve as a sort of “pressure valve” in maintaining our consensus reality that we all share in ... normal, daylight, awareness.

I have experienced weird anomalous stuff that has no basis in consensus reality: ghosts, invisible things walking in the woods, 12-15 ft high creatures with red eyes standing at my second story window as a kid which resulted in the only sleepwalking I’d ever done in my life ... and I was trying to get outside my house...

Time slips, apparitions, “hallucinations” etc.

Given that we are really only at the beginning of understanding our own consciousness ... I think we’ve still got a lot to learn about this world we think we all have so clearly figured out.

Yes that article had some interesting thoughts. Don't know that I subscribe to all of it, but it's worthy of my putting it somewhere to reflect on.

I've often wondered about telepathy and frequencies as evolution on an ego-less animal would've have certainly developed other forms of communication (THIS IS JUST MY CONJECTURE HERE, because I don't know that to be the case at all).

Had the great privileged to chat with Russell Targ a physicist (Stanford Research Institute (SRI) in 1972 where he and Harold Puthoff coined the term "remote viewing"). He was a staunch believer in ESP and I asked if he thought that people could develop some form of psychic communication with their pets (or vise a versa). He said that if one can learn to calm and quiet their mind that they can onlock his or hers psychic abilities, he added that animals don't seem to have that problem.

Now at the time (before my Sasquatch research), I thought that was a nice comment, that perhaps "fluffy" and I can use ESP to chat with one another, and I never thought of it again until I started reading/hearing about some strange Telepathy comments involving BigFoot. And to be honest, the idea seemed ludicrous to me.. some large hairy bipedal brain-chatting with someone.

But the longer I'm in this 'game' ( a lot of times it feels like that), the more of the weird seems to keep popping up. I now wonder if they might all be connected somehow someway (poltergiest, ghosts, bigfoot, demons, angels, etc.). Now I'm not trying to influence anyone's belief system (I'm a former Minister, so go figure), I'm just saying that a lot of what we might think is paranormal or weird might actually be all explainable, we just haven't figured out what the link is yet. if we can move the science up a few notches to include a few other areas of interest, we might get closer to some form of answer.

The Above Is just me rambling, it's conjecture... I'm just 'Musing' along here.

BTW.. if your interested in ESP (with Humans), here's Russell Targ at a TED Conference.

So ... Sasquatch. Elusiveness. Musing.

For about the last decade, I’ve been subsumed in a skeptical mindset. As such, I’ve been retraining myself to be as reasonable as I can be. And yet, in the midst of this, my childhood interest/obsession/fear of Sasquatch has returned full blast. I have not seen a Sasquatch as many of you have. I have had experiences that might have been related to the phenomenon, but, one happened when I was five and one when I was 13. Both have been colored by my own thoughts over the years.

I have the sense that these beings or this phenomenon is just as ... sentient ... as I am, as we are. Yet, at the same time, they remain so fully integrated into the world, and seem to do what they do without using the two great forces that humans are so proud of, fire and tools. I wouldn’t be the first to guess that they are almost our inverse — we are small and weak and slow and deaf/dumb/blind so we have developed our tools to help us compensate whereas they are strong, fast, with great stamina, ability to climb sheer surfaces, are basically ninjas with their woodcraft expertise ... the only reason I can see that they have survived us (whereas the Neanderthals, Denisovans and others did not) is that they learned to stay away from us.

And that, I think is the underlying factor of their “elusiveness” they have literally had hundreds of thousands of years to evolve alongside us and stay the hell away from us, and they do it with an intellection or cognition that is the equal of ours just not ... focused as ours is.

And of course, the other factor I feel absolutely certain about is that our government has for at least 150-200 years been actively concealing their reality.

And that is more troubling to me than they are.

As I was doing some fact - checking on some stuff from 10 years or so ago and found these little bits of historical statements deal with the Weird and Wonderful. (The interesting thing is that they are all quite similar or is it simple plagiarism ?)


In 1875 Sir George Biddell Airy who was the Astronomer Royal received an award for his accomplishment's on expanding human knowledge on the universe. The new information was “stranger than the strangest fiction”,

J. B. S. Haldane in an essay titled “Possible Worlds” published within a 1927 collection said: "my own suspicion is that the universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose."

In 1962 the famous science fiction author Arthur C. Clarke published the speculative work “Profiles of the Future” where he paraphrased (but slightly change it to); "“The Universe is not only queerer than we imagine—it is queerer than we can imagine.”

In 1976 educator Arlen R. Zander (a East Texas State University associate professor) delivered a speech about UFOs that included ; " “Our universe is not only stranger than we suppose, it is stranger than we can suppose.”

In 1991 “Popular Science” magazine published an article titled “The Cosmic Connection” by Arthur Fisher containing another variant; “nature is not only odder than we think, but odder than we can think.”

It's thoughts like these that keep me pursuing a quest for answer's.
Johnny

a reply to: JohnnyAnonymous
Yeah like god being uncomprehendable because our brains have not evolved to a level where we can
Understand what God is, same goes for so much more, I have been reading some Dion Fortune and there is a bit about projection of the ethereal body and likely where the term werewolf comes from also I don't know if you watch Netflix but it is saturated with programs involving people who change into different animals forms but another's possibility is that sasquatch is an animal form (elemental) that has been severed from its long dead creator and lives between this world and the other. I find this stuff fascinating if you open your mind to it, here's an excert from the book.


Game of thrones is another where each of the boys is given a white wolf as its protector.

Alrighty then!
We're off to musing about "the weird"!


Several things I know for sure. Some of what we consider paranormal can be taught. Some people are born with "their lights on" in a manner of speaking, but others just never "got the feel of it". Once they do it's just down to consistent practice like any other skill.

Animals, pets in particular while not actually understanding language DO fully comprehend pictures/images. Project an image of what you expect an with some practice it's amazing how quickly your pet "twigs onto it".

For instance we're all pretty familiar with Cesar Milan The Dog Whisperer". He not only uses behavioral modeling to correct owners, but teaches them how to use their own inherent energy to work with their animals. It's been broadcast for years now yet no one says a thing about it. Yet he's been successfully teaching this for years, same as Barbara Brennen did with OR Nurses in NYC for years as well. Altho she taught Theraputic Touch.

What he does in effect is teach people how to modulate their energy depending on how their animal will respond best.
I can attest to this as I couldn't get a feral cat close to me until I remembered what he said about insecure/aggressive/fearful dogs, which was turn your back to them an wait for them to become curious.
Within a couple of days the feral cat was taking treats from my hand.

People who are skeptical just have never taken the time to learn. Kinda like people who complain about plumbers costing so much for doing a couple of little things like saudering copper pipe to fix a leak, but themselves never took a class in it? My point being neither skill is incomprehensible or rocket science.

a reply to: Caver78

When I was a young boy I remember reading the story about Daniel in the lions den and I wondered how they didn't devour him, on these musings my young self came to the conclusion that it was because he didn't fear them, Lions don't like fear so if you project your own fear unto them they will do what's natural and stop that from happening. Now Im not going into a lions closure to put that idea to the rest but I think it could have truth in it.
"there's nothing to fear but fear itself" FDR

Edit, just to make sure that was FDR that said that I checked it and found this

Nothing to fear but fear itself - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Nothing to fear but fear itself may refer to: A phrase from the 1933 inaugural address of Franklin D. Roosevelt "Nothing to fear but Fear Itself", an episode of the television series The Golden Girls "Nothing to Fear (But Fear Itself)", a song by Oingo Boingo on the 1996 album Nothing to Fear

I have been talking about the numbers 3 6 9 and the synchronicity I have with them. That article and the page number of the book I quoted are examples of what I was talking about, happens all the time now to me.

Not trying to railroad the topic by any means.. just thought the timing on this was a bit funny considering the recent cave debacle...

I just received my Newsletter of the Yowie Times and about halfway through it came across an article entitled; "Is The Yowie Gigantopithecus?"

"Gigantopithecus is believed to have lived from 9 million years ago up until 100,000 years. So it was still around when ancient humans roamed the earth. But, did Giganto die out? There are many similarities with witness reports and what has been found about Gigantopithecus. Size, height and weigh the physical makeup of both creatures is very similar indeed.

The Discovery of Gigantopithecus was by paleoanthropologist Gustav Heinrich Ralph von Koenigswald in 1935. He found what the Chinese called dragon teeth in a pharmacy which he knew wasn’t from a dragon but from a primate of some kind, but it was huge!"

"He knew then and there by the size of this tooth that the creature was of huge proportions. After asking questions, the pharmacists told him he bought the tooth from locals who dig up these teeth and other bones in a cave nearby. This cave is called the Baeryan Cave, Bijie County in Guizhou Province." (emphasis mine)



Large molar of Gigantopithecus from the collection Gustav Heinrich Ralph von Koenigswald in the Senckenberg Research Institute. Credit: Wolfgang Fuhrmannek

"Ever since then more and more evidence has been dug out of caves in China, Thailand and Vietnam. In 2014 fossil teeth and a Mandible of Giganto were found in Indonesia. Another large ape Gigantopithecus bilaspurensis has been found in India. It was identified by a few jawbones and teeth that were found in an archaeological dig and is closely related to Gigantopithecus Blacki."


The world works in mysterious ways!

a reply to: JohnnyAnonymous

An interesting side note from my own research right now is that I am studying Charles Fort.

What a misunderstood, underrated genius.

a reply to: JohnnyAnonymous

The Tokoloshe is a more supernatural creature.
He can appear physiclly, virtually almost always as a dwarfish male (in fact many local women fear being raped by the entity). But not necessarily, he's also associated with poltergeist activity and black magic curses.
That is, good or evil witchdoctors can either remove or invoke him.
Historically though, Credo Mutwa once wrote (don't have the books here) that in some rural areas without electricity evil witchdoctors would use deformed trainees (often orphans left with them) to terrorize their targets at night.

According to my theory of "manimals" South Africa simply didn't have the envrironment to even briefly support such a parralell subspiecies. At least not since colonialism moved into the interior, from 1822.

Although there were many migrations and clashes between the local tribes, and settlers and tribes, most of the smaller tribes reorganized themselves into bigger tribes quicly. And a lot of the west coast is basically desert.

And we have lots of predators - I mean in the 19th century some villages were built in trees, they were so terrified of lions.

So to make a manimal subspecies takes a certain envirnment, along with conflict, or the sudden removal of other human cultures, and the closest they are fightened of. I'd say an environment with sufficient food, and one where they quickly become a primate (which we are scientifically) apex species.

Ironically though there was a boy from Uganda who had been living with monkeys (posted it before on ATS), and when the villagers found him he was covered in fur. They had to shave him from head to toe, and the documentary just ignored that fact. They simply said, children can sometimes do this! Huh, they can?
Instead they focused on his relationship with the monkeys - did they really feed him, or did he just follow them for fruits they dropped?

But the fact is he was covored in fur, but once he was shaved and lived in the village it never came back. But when they found him, apprently he looked like a hairy monster, or one of the monkeys.



To sum up, I think sub-Saharan Africa has too much population pressure, enzoning, poachers, miltias and armed conservationists all over even rural areas to allow such a species to thrive. And that's not even the predators and rival primates, who don't always look kindly on humans (contrary to the "Tarzan" myth).