If such beings, CREATOR Creations exist how would YOU personally classify them?

originally posted by: Ophiuchus 13
Interesting perception dfnj2015

a reply to: dfnj2015

Do you feel the GOD of everything is understood the same way by say aliens as THE is by mankind?
Further in relation to dualistic and Non-dualistic Existence do you feel GOD is a dualistic or Non-dualistic being?

I think extraterrestrials experience spirituality identically to the way we do.

God is neither dualistic or non-dualistic. You cannot attach any attribute at all to a transcendent God.



"God cannot exist in the way creation exists."

"Dionysius describes the kataphatic or affirmative way to the divine as the "way of speech": that we can come to some understanding of the Transcendent by attributing all the perfections of the created order to God as its source. In this sense, we can say "God is Love", "God is Beauty", "God is Good". The apophatic or negative way stresses God's absolute transcendence and unknowability in such a way that we cannot say anything about the divine essence because God is so totally beyond being. The dual concept of the immanence and transcendence of God can help us to understand the simultaneous truth of both "ways" to God: at the same time as God is immanent, God is also transcendent. At the same time as God is knowable, God is also unknowable. God cannot be thought of as one or the other only."

God is totality beyond being. It is often said God is transcendent and immanent at the same time. In a sense, when we experience greatness, we are touching a sliver of the perfection that is God. We are all drawn to experience greatness in our lives. We are all drawn to return to the absolute wholeness, unity, and perfection that is God.

If you like this way of thinking, you might find this video appealing:



This video change my whole way of thinking about God and spirituality.

originally posted by: RMFX1
Lately, it's seems that more and more ofter people post threads with titles that I can't make head nor tail of. This is one of them. Sheesh.

I love your avatar! Very funny!!!

originally posted by: dfnj2015

a reply to: dfnj2015
I think extraterrestrials experience spirituality identically to the way we do.

I'm sensing that, I just cannot tell how they label THE in their perceptions but I do feel within the Collective consciousness that they too feel connected to a SOURCE or CREATOR or GOD...
Name of said GOD, CREATOR or SOURCE may vary as well as what they may be classified as scientifically.
The benevolent actions will be the same universally and throughout Existence wherever that/those Energy or Entity encountered.

The roots of many of my threads like this are based on considering their Alien or subsurface 😉 terrestrial thinking, associated with were did we ALL* come from. Because once "we" as the Created ask that question no matter location in Existence it seems it will drive all of our thinking in similar direction to find that Truth.

You cover many valid points dfnj2015 about GOD. It appears you view these characteristics in the Op as associations to GOD.

To center more concentration on the Op would that GOD be Alien or is it beyond Alien to you? Further do you think mankind would view such a Entity as GOD aswell or Alien This is something I have wondered for some time now.
If seen as GOD by most then it may strengthen religious beliefs if seen as Alien it may alter religious perception causing issues with more doubt in GOD Head figure.
I will check out your videos and appreciate your content shared.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
...You cannot attach any attribute at all to a transcendent God.

This is how God is understood by students of the Bible:

Since the above is rather concise, here's a more detailed description:

The True God Jehovah. The true God is not a nameless God. His name is Jehovah. (De 6:4; Ps 83:18) He is God by reason of his creatorship. (Ge 1:1; Re 4:11) The true God is real (Joh 7:28), a person (Ac 3:19; Heb 9:24), and not lifeless natural law operating without a living lawgiver, not blind force working through a series of accidents to develop one thing or another. The 1956 edition of The Encyclopedia Americana (Vol. XII, p. 743) commented under the heading “God”: “In the Christian, Mohammedan, and Jewish sense, the Supreme Being, the First Cause, and in a general sense, as considered nowadays throughout the civilized world, a spiritual being, self-existent, eternal and absolutely free and all-powerful, distinct from the matter which he has created in many forms, and which he conserves and controls. There does not seem to have been a period of history where mankind was without belief in a supernatural author and governor of the universe.”

Proofs of the existence of “the living God.” The fact of the existence of God is proved by the order, power, and complexity of creation, macroscopic and microscopic, and through his dealings with his people throughout history (see this playlist for details). In looking into what might be called the Book of Divine Creation, scientists learn much. One can learn from a book only if intelligent thought and preparation have been put into the book by its author.

In contrast to the lifeless gods of the nations, Jehovah is “the living God.” (Jer 10:10; 2Co 6:16) Everywhere there is testimony to his activity and his greatness. “The heavens are declaring the glory of God; and of the work of his hands the expanse is telling.” (Ps 19:1) Men have no reason or excuse for denying God, because “what may be known about God is manifest among them, for God made it manifest to them. For his invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable.”​—Ro 1:18-20.

Jehovah God is described in the Bible as living from time indefinite to time indefinite, forever (Ps 90:2, 4; Re 10:6), and as being the King of eternity, incorruptible, invisible, the only true God. (1Ti 1:17) There existed no god before him.​—Isa 43:10, 11.

Infinite, but approachable. The true God is infinite and beyond the mind of man fully to fathom. The creature could never hope to become equal to his Creator or understand all the workings of His mind. (Ro 11:33-36) But He can be found and approached, and He supplies his worshiper with all that is necessary for the worshiper’s welfare and happiness. (Ac 17:26, 27; Ps 145:16) He is ever at the zenith of his ability and willingness to give good gifts and presents to his creatures, as it is written: “Every good gift and every perfect present is from above, for it comes down from the Father of the celestial lights, and with him there is not a variation of the turning of the shadow.” (Jas 1:17) Jehovah always acts within his own righteous arrangements, doing all things on a legal basis. (Ro 3:4, 23-26) For this reason all of his creatures can have complete confidence in him, knowing that he always abides by the principles he establishes. He does not change (Mal 3:6), and there is no “variation” with him in the application of his principles. There is no partiality with him (De 10:17, 18; Ro 2:11), and it is impossible for him to lie.​—Nu 23:16, 19; Tit 1:1, 2; Heb 6:17, 18.

His attributes. The true God is not omnipresent, for he is spoken of as having a location. (1Ki 8:49; Joh 16:28; Heb 9:24) His throne is in heaven. (Isa 66:1) He is all-powerful, being the Almighty God. (Ge 17:1; Re 16:14) “All things are naked and openly exposed to the eyes of him,” and he is “the One telling from the beginning the finale.” (Heb 4:13; Isa 46:10, 11; 1Sa 2:3) His power and knowledge extend everywhere, reaching every part of the universe.​—2Ch 16:9; Ps 139:7-12; Am 9:2-4.

The true God is spirit, not flesh (Joh 4:24; 2Co 3:17), though he sometimes likens his attributes of sight, power, and so forth, to human faculties. Thus he speaks figuratively of his “arm” (Ex 6:6), his “eyes,” and his “ears” (Ps 34:15), and he points out that, since he is the Creator of human eyes and ears, he certainly can see and hear.​—Ps 94:9.

Some of God’s primary attributes are love (1Jo 4:8), wisdom (Pr 2:6; Ro 11:33), justice (De 32:4; Lu 18:7, 8), and power (Job 37:23; Lu 1:35). He is a God of order and of peace. (1Co 14:33) He is completely holy, clean and pure (Isa 6:3; Hab 1:13; Re 4:8); happy (1Ti 1:11); and merciful (Ex 34:6; Lu 6:36). Many other qualities of his personality are described in the Scriptures.

His position. Jehovah is the Supreme Sovereign of the universe, the King eternal. (Ps 68:20; Da 4:25, 35; Ac 4:24; 1Ti 1:17) The position of his throne is the ultimate for superiority. (Eze 1:4-28; Da 7:9-14; Re 4:1-8) He is the Majesty (Heb 1:3; 8:1), the Majestic God, the Majestic One. (1Sa 4:8; Isa 33:21) He is the Source of all life.​—Job 33:4; Ps 36:9; Ac 17:24, 25.

His righteousness and glory. The true God is a righteous God. (Ps 7:9) He is the glorious God. (Ps 29:3; Ac 7:2) He enjoys eminence above all (De 33:26), being clothed with eminence and strength (Ps 93:1; 68:34) and with dignity and splendor. (Ps 104:1; 1Ch 16:27; Job 37:22; Ps 8:1) “His activity is dignity and splendor themselves.” (Ps 111:3) There is glory of splendor in his Kingship.​—Ps 145:11, 12.

His purpose. God has a purpose that he will work out and that cannot be thwarted. (Isa 46:10; 55:8-11) His purpose, as expressed at Ephesians 1:9, 10, is “to gather all things together again in the Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth.” By means of Christ all intelligent creation will be brought into full harmony with God. (Compare Mt 6:9, 10.) None existed before Jehovah; therefore he has seniority over all. (Isa 44:6) He, being the Creator, existed before any other gods, and ‘none will exist after him,’ because the nations will never produce a real, live god that is able to prophesy. (Isa 43:10; 46:9, 10) As the Alpha and the Omega (Re 22:13), he is the one and only Almighty God; he will bring to a successful conclusion the issue over Godship, being forever vindicated as the only Almighty God. (Re 1:8; 21:5, 6) He never forgets or forsakes his purposes or covenants, which makes him a God of dependability and loyalty.​—Ps 105:8.

The true God, the Creator of the glorious heavenly bodies, has glory and brilliance beyond the ability of fleshly sight to endure, for “no man may see [God] and yet live.” (Ex 33:20) Only the angels, spirit creatures, have vision that can behold his face in a literal sense. (Mt 18:10; Lu 1:19) Nevertheless, he does not expose men to such an experience. In loving-kindness he enables men to see his fine qualities through his Word, including the revelation of himself by means of his Son, Christ Jesus, who is “the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation” (Col 1:15), reflecting and thus revealing the attributes of his God's personality.​—Mt 11:27; Joh 1:18; 14:9.

originally posted by: whereislogic
The True God Jehovah. The true God is not a nameless God. His name is Jehovah.

I could probably argue with you every point you made but I will pick only two. God may have a certain favorite name with certain groups of people. But no one person on Earth speaks for God. God is a word. What the word means is purely subjective. There are three groups of people in the Middle East all having a different word for God. And all three groups are fighting each other claiming the letters they use for their God are the correct letters.

I think there is only one true all powerful all loving God and that God is God. Three letters are enough.

originally posted by: whereislogic
Proofs of the existence of “the living God.” The fact of the existence of God is proved by the order, power, and complexity of creation, macroscopic and microscopic, and through his dealings with his people throughout history (see this playlist for details). In looking into what might be called the Book of Divine Creation, scientists learn much. One can learn from a book only if intelligent thought and preparation have been put into the book by its author.

There is as much order in the Universe as there is chaos. We do not live in a clockwork Universe with hard determinism. But I don't think it matters if we have order or not. My main criticism with your way of thinking is there is no acceptable evidence for the existence of God. Faith is all we have. If you require evidence to believe in God then it is a decision not choice. I think it will forever be a choice not based on reason or evidence. But a simple choice based on no reason.

We can discuss the nature of God for a long time. From my perspective, there is no amount of evil God will not tolerate in order to preserve our free-will. God, as far as I can tell, is completely indifferent to man. If we crap in our own bed it is up to us, you and me, to clean up the crap.

For me personally, God is an idea of something that transcends all words and meaning. God is the source and ultimate expression every possibility that has happened or could possibly happen. God is not a source of morality. Man is the source of our morality.

I am not interested in any attempt you may try to put forth in changing my way of thinking about God. My faith in God being transcendent and impersonal is way stronger than anything you can possible say. God is perfect, whole, and complete without any form or limitations. God is not located in a place. God is everywhere and nowhere at the same time. This is what transcendent means. For us to perfect like God is not possible because of our limitations. But we can aspire to be closer to God by trying to be the best person we can possible be in spite of our limitations.

The men who wrote the Bible were subjects to the historical context in which the Bible was written. If we had a different context we would have a completely different Bible. For example, the Bible was written in such a way to promote loyalty to authority and promote a particular type of government, that is, monarchy. It seems to me an all-power all-loving God would be a wee bit more egalitarian. This idea of an egalitarian God is rejected by most Bible worshipers, or people who idolize the words of the Bible, because it is completely different than what they've been programmed to believe. I doubt very much God needs us to worship him in order for God to be God. God is perfect and whole without any needs or desires.

The Bible was written by men not by God. Although many of the passages you quoted are very good passages. There are also passages that confirm my suspicions it was written by men (see below).

No. 1:St Paul’s advice about whether women are allowed to teach men in church:

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.” (1 Timothy 2:12)

No. 2: In this verse, Samuel, one of the early leaders of Israel, orders genocide against a neighbouring people:

“This is what the Lord Almighty says... ‘Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” (1 Samuel 15:3)

No. 3: A command of Moses:

“Do not allow a sorceress to live.” (Exodus 22:18)

No. 4: The ending of Psalm 137, a psalm which was made into a disco calypso hit by Boney M, is often omitted from readings in church:

“Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us – he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.” (Psalm 137:9)

No. 5: Another blood-curdling tale from the Book of Judges, where an Israelite man is trapped in a house by a hostile crowd, and sends out his concubine to placate them:

“So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight. When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, ‘Get up; let’s go.’ But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home.” (Judges 19:25-28)

No. 6: St Paul condemns homosexuality in the opening chapter of the Book of Romans:

“In the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error.” (Romans 1:27)

No. 7: In this story from the Book of Judges, an Israelite leader, Jephthah, makes a rash vow to God, which has to be carried out:

“And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord, and said, ‘If you will give the Ammonites into my hand, then whoever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return victorious from the Ammonites, shall be the Lord’s, to be offered up by me as a burnt-offering.’ Then Jephthah came to his home at Mizpah; and there was his daughter coming out to meet him with timbrels and with dancing. She was his only child; he had no son or daughter except her. When he saw her, he tore his clothes, and said, ‘Alas, my daughter! You have brought me very low; you have become the cause of great trouble to me. For I have opened my mouth to the Lord, and I cannot take back my vow.’” (Judges 11:30-1, 34-5)

No. 8: The Lord is speaking to Abraham in this story where God commands him to sacrifice his son:

‘Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt-offering on one of the mountains that I shall show you.’ (Genesis 22:2)

No. 9: “Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.” (Ephesians 5:22)

No. 10: “Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)

You are certainly entitled to worship the words in the Bible as little idols. But your way of thinking about God seems wrong to me. God is not this and that. God does not command men. God transcends everything including men in my opinion.

originally posted by: Ophiuchus 13
To center more concentration on the Op would that GOD be Alien or is it beyond Alien to you? Further do you think mankind would view such a Entity as GOD aswell or Alien

This is something I have wondered for some time now.
If seen as GOD by most then it may strengthen religious beliefs if seen as Alien it may alter religious perception causing issues with more doubt in GOD Head figure.
I will check out your videos and appreciate your content shared.

I think God is not an alien or extraterrestrial. People may be awe in the presence of an extraterrestrial thinking such a being as God. But the idea of transcendence is pretty big.

I think there is something inherent in human language you should be aware of as part of this conversation. I would imagine these same limitations are also shared with any being capable of communication.

Sometimes people think their own opinions are facts. This is because everyone has their own dogma. Everyone has their own belief system. Dogmas are built on a set of assumptions or axioms that are accepted as being true without any evidence. For example, one axiom of a belief system could be, "government is evil". And another could be "Government is not the problem. The real problem is corporations making government's evil through lobbyists."

If we do not share another person's axioms then we will think what they say is insane. This is because every sentence we speak must be aligned with our personal set of axioms making up our own belief system. Otherwise our thoughts would not formulate making any sense to us. Judging thoughts based on axioms is the way the human language works.

Every person develops a different set of axioms based on their life experiences. Some axioms of course are shared. What is important to understand is there is nothing "wrong" with the way other people think. People just have different life experiences. It is very valuable to try to understand the way other people think by identifying their axioms. Axioms are like clothing. Sometimes we have to try it on to see how it looks and feels to appreciate it. It is also important to be aware of our own axioms so we can better understand the source of our own bigotries and prejudices.

With this way of thinking about an axiomatic base human language then it becomes clear there is more than one way to think about God, aliens, and extraterrestrials. All political ideologies, as well as religions, are true by themselves but may be considered "wrong" relative to each other because each system of thought does not share the same set of axioms.

Everyone thinks their own way of thinking is the best way. Belief systems are important because they are the filter through which we experience our lives. Belief systems provide meaning and context for our actions. Our belief systems are the source of what compels us to act. This is why the leftists are so obsessed with "hate" speech because in their minds, they hold the axiom "hate thoughts lead to violent actions". The axiom is impossible to prove but this is why it is an axiom. Axioms are accepted as being true without any proof. It is an assumption to a belief system.

It is important to respect other people's ways of thinking. When we idolize our own dogma as being superior to other people's then we lose our unity. When we think our way of thinking is superior to someone else's we become divided and lose friendship. Just because someone doesn't share your own personal set of axioms does not mean the other person is worth less, should not be respected, their vote should not be counted, or they do not have favor with God.

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: RMFX1
Lately, it's seems that more and more ofter people post threads with titles that I can't make head nor tail of. This is one of them. Sheesh.

I love your avatar! Very funny!!!

Thanks
I've used it here for 10 years now and only today another member told me that it was offensive. First time anyone mentioned it to me. They're going to try have the mods censor it 😂

a reply to: dfnj2015

I was speaking from the Bible's perspective concerning what the Bible refers to as "the only true God" (what information the Bible gives concerning this individual). Indicated by my opening sentence:

This is how God is understood by students of the Bible:

This individual in the Bible is only called by 1 personal name, which is the most frequently mentioned name in the Bible, approx. 7000 times. Sadly, most Bible translators have removed that name and replaced it with the generic noun and title "the LORD" or "God".

You said:

My main criticism with your way of thinking is there is no acceptable evidence for the existence of God.

There is, but I respect your opinion. Nevertheless, that's all it is, your opinion. Heads-up: it's an indoctrinated conditioned opinion. You do not want to accept any of it cause that's the result of what the Bible refers to as "this system of things" and the "spirit of the world" (spirit in that phrase referring to attitudes). The media (movies and tv-shows in particular) and society in general is working overtime to encourage that attitude towards the evidence. No doubt, you didn't actually look at the evidence that I linked in the playlist, cause you've already made up your mind before looking at it, not wanting to consider it reasonably. Like you said, you're not interested in changing your mind about this. Again, an indoctrinated conditioned feeling. Just a heads-up. Maybe one day you'll wake up to it. If no one would ever warn you, that chance remains very slim. At least it's slightly improved now (ever so slightly, perhaps hardly at all, but still better than no heads-up at all).

Wasn't really trying to change your mind about it, just giving you and others here the relevant information, you can do with it what you want. The main reason I only linked the playlist concerning the evidence for God's existence, rather than discuss it in detail (other than the summary there, which obviously can be easily dismissed out of hand by someone inclined to do so because it's a summary; for example, there is a much more detailed way of discussing the order and complexity of creation pointed out in that paragraph, the playlist does so and addresses the points you brought up concerning chaos, or otherwise phrased by Michael Behe as certain things 'happening by chance').

There was no need to explain your thinking about God to me though, I was already aware of it and am quite familiar with your pattern of thinking, a very common pattern of thinking also described in the Bible (more generally). It's a nice demonstration to vindicate the Bible as a reliable source of truth though, in particular concerning human behaviour and thinking. But I somewhat doubt anyone here will notice, especially those who are not aware of "the spirit of the world", or what exactly that is referring to.

Perhaps it wasn't meant for me. Anyway, most of it is just a repetition of the arguments that have been made by Bible critics for centuries, which are already repeated ad nauseam in "this system of things", and the answers or responses are freely available to anyone willing to consider them. Often demonstrating that those who bring them up are not willing to do that, they just want to express their criticism of the Bible and the only true God described therein. Perhaps it eases their minds concerning the subject, gives them the confidence that they made the right choice in ignoring any sort of response to their criticism; by means of repetition.

In so doing staying at the surface of any argument or subject. On the other hand, the “understanding heart is one that searches for knowledge”; it is not satisfied with a mere superficial view but seeks to get the full picture. (Pr 15:14) True understanding is not promoted in this system of things and is not reflected by the spirit of the world. Especially not concerning the subject: God. Misleading information is what is popular concerning that subject, such as the notion that "You cannot attach any attribute at all to a transcendent God." Which you did anyway when you made all sorts of statements about God, for example attributing impersonality to God or attributing various attitudes concerning mankind to God. And in that very same sentence you are attributing the attribute of transcendency to God. Which again shows that you're not really thinking through what you are saying (staying at the surface).

I could have kept my response real short to your statement that:

You cannot attach any attribute at all to a transcendent God.

Not even the attribute of transcendency?

But I didn't want to be too 'bland' (petty? I'm looking for a good translation of the Dutch expression: 'Maar ik wou niet flauw doen.'; but I can't find one, 1 possible translation says "hate to burst your bubble", but that's not what I mean, another one says "do not wish to seem petty", which is also not quite what I mean, it's not about pettiness, the word I'm looking for is somewhere in between those 2 expressions, the word I'm looking for must somewhat carry the notion of 'not being very informational', 'a bit simple and short', 'not much effort put into it'). The word I'm looking for is not quite "lame" either, but I did consider that word. My mind is crashing trying to find the right word: