Graffiti: The bad news and the good news

I've just read this news article: www.coloradoan.com.../20050305 /NEWS01/503050329/1002

Ok have a look at the fifth paragraph:

The good news is that we can all help to get rid of graffiti. If you see someone tagging, it should be treated as a crime in progress, so please call 911 right away. You can report existing graffiti whether it is on your property or someone else's by calling the city's hotline at 416-2400.

So there's a huge problem in the world at the moment for emergency services. In England the emergency services are quite quick, but could be quicker. I've heard on several news stories that the emergency service response time in the U.S is very poor, and that 911 is usually clogged up. If this is the case then why are we being told to ring the emergency services if we see someone graffiti'ing. It's not an emergency is it? It doesn't need immedient response does it?

I think I should vandalize anyone who tries to get me in trouble for graffitti.

1 - I only graffitti in public places. Defacing Private Property would be a crime. Defacing Public Property should be a crime but it's a crime against the state, not against people. Therefore people shouldn't tell on you. If the cops catch you then they do...you were stupid to get caught. But don't bring the people in the equation. It's the government, why help them, they aren't helping you so greatly are they?

2 - If someone supports the govt. and helps them catch me for graffiti ina public space then I should vandalize their property in retribution for their civil crime

I hate graffiti....it's ugly and it makes an area look awful! OOPS...hun, I hope your being sarcastic there...

Ive been to places in chicago and paris where graffiti looks really good as a huge back drop on a building. sometimes store owners will hire artists to tag there walls. I think it has its place and is deffinatly an art.

Originally posted by 00PS
I think I should vandalize anyone who tries to get me in trouble for graffitti.

1 - I only graffitti in public places. Defacing Private Property would be a crime. Defacing Public Property should be a crime but it's a crime against the state, not against people.

Thats pretty stupid reasoning. Public space belongs to everyone, and everyone has to take care of it, so its an even bigger crime to vandalize public property. Thats like saying burning library books isn't as big a deal as buring a private collection.

why help them, they aren't helping you so greatly are they?

And instead the people should help vandals?

If someone supports the govt. and helps them catch me for graffiti ina public space then I should vandalize their property in retribution for their civil crime

Fair enough, but they can also vandalize your private property in retaliation also.

civil44
sometimes store owners will hire artists to tag there walls.

They don't hire them to tag the walls. They hire good ones to create works of art on it. Not idiotic tags.

is deffinatly an art.

Making paintings is definitly an art. Scribbling garbage on walls isn't necessarily so. One might say 'but what about abstract art'. Well, look at the two, and look at the artists intent, and you'll see that there is in fact a difference. The vast majority of grafiti is just plain vandalism.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Making paintings is definitly an art. Scribbling garbage on walls isn't necessarily so. One might say 'but what about abstract art'. Well, look at the two, and look at the artists intent, and you'll see that there is in fact a difference. The vast majority of grafiti is just plain vandalism.

In my lifetime I have thown a few tags. I personally feel that graffiti can be a very good art form at times. I like to sketch, and when you sketch a good piece you just want to paint it on a wall, you wouldn't even think about the criminal damage side, just the fact that it's your mark. Here are a few examples of what I consider to be good graffiti piece's;

www.geocities.com...
www.geocities.com...
www.geocities.com...
www.geocities.com...
www.geocities.com...
www.geocities.com...
www.geocities.com...

What do you think?

In my lifetime I have thown a few tags. I personally feel that graffiti can be a very good art form at times. I like to sketch, and when you sketch a good piece you just want to paint it on a wall, you wouldn't even think about the criminal damage side, just the fact that it's your mark. Here are a few examples of what I consider to be good graffiti piece's;

www.geocities.com...
www.geocities.com...
www.geocities.com...
www.geocities.com...
www.geocities.com...
www.geocities.com...
www.geocities.com...

What do you think?

Dang! That 3-D look is awesome

I've never seen "depth" like that in the murals I've seen. Now those, to me, certainly constitute art - not the mindless graffiti most posters are thinking about (myself included). Granted, they might not be what nearby residents would consider tasteful, but I'd say they look better than a nasty, dirty, concrete wall.

Got a good link to any others of this type? I'm lookin for additional tattoo ideas

Yeah www.ukgraffiti.com... - awesome site, loads of the best graffiti in the UK. Also www.riskism.tk... & www.shok1.com... are good.

Search for Skok1, some of his photos are amazing.

You can be sure Oops that if I ever caught you tagging, I would make sure you were totally covered in your own paint, over clothes, face and any skin.

Its a mindless act of senceless children, pretending that they have some sort of "authority" over a place.

Originally posted by Netchicken
You can be sure Oops that if I ever caught you tagging, I would make sure you were totally covered in your own paint, over clothes, face and any skin.

Its a mindless act of senceless children, pretending that they have some sort of "authority" over a place.

This is mindless??




Looks awesome to me how bout this one...




Not all underground art is gang related.

Originally posted by Netchicken
You can be sure Oops that if I ever caught you tagging, I would make sure you were totally covered in your own paint, over clothes, face and any skin.

Its a mindless act of senceless children, pretending that they have some sort of "authority" over a place.

Its that your official opinion??? I think that's great Don't be too uptight though, I might like that sorta thing. I actually paint people too - yeah with my airbrush - it's called body art.

Originally posted by LadyV

I hate graffiti....it's ugly and it makes an area look awful! OOPS...hun, I hope your being sarcastic there...

To an extent I was...I love seeing who will personally attack me because they hate something but can't actually argue it reasonably.....didn't think it would be a Mod though. Cover me in paint baby! Don't hold back - say it like ya wanna!

Back in the 80's graffitti on the trains and subways of NYC was not just an art but a political expression. It might not be protected under free speech but it was just as any other form of civil disobedience and our country has a long history of civil disobedience.

Civil disobedience is the conscious act of breaking laws for political expression. Who is going to say which forms of civil disobedience should be accepted by society or not. Netchicken? hah... Well his biased statement of what is mindless leads me to believe he really doesn't have a clue.

I agree with the original poster, people shouldn't bother 911 with graffiti reporting, but another way IS availible (in FL, you dial *FHP for any problem you see on the highway - graffiti included, and then go through a menu to select the proper place for your complaint to be sorted - I bet similar things are availible in other areas like the local number the original poster noted) Some "grafitti" is good looking, then it's called "art", but only if people are hired to do it by the owners of that property. It is vandalism, simple as that if people do it where it's not wanted. I don't take pleasure in seeing people deface public property. It means lower land values, and the public is forced to look at it when they drive by, etc... And the PUBLIC has to pay to clean it up. I'm sure you pro-graffiti "artists" who support vandalizing property that does not belong to you would love it if I came by your house tonight and painted phalluses and middle-fingers all over your car and house.

Originally posted by AlphaHumanaI'm sure you pro-graffiti "artists" who support vandalizing property that does not belong to you would love it if I came by your house tonight and painted phalluses and middle-fingers all over your car and house.

You are smart!

REAL Pro-graffitti artists number one

Don't do things stupid like spray painting phalluses and middle fingers

and two

Don't tag peoples houses.

If they do they should get caught by the police and go to jail

Happy

Smart Guy

I think this thread is deliberatly mixing up graffiti / wall art / and tagging.

The original article talks of tagging, and thats what I am talking about.

Sure there is artistic grafitti, just as in the 60's and 70;s there used to be wonderful political and philisophical graffiti. That has gone, leaving only semi literate adolescents trying to sign their names or gang groups, as a form of establishing their identity.

Tagging, is a form of territory marking to say "I was here" or "this is my place". Its done by people without power trying to establish a presnce or create the illusion, in their own minds, and their peers that they actually do have a place in society. Often though its just mindless fun and vandalism. Its the precursor to urban decay and all that follows it.

Its no longer Oop's ideal of "civil disobedience," just vandalism akin to breaking windows in unoccupied buildings. The sad thing is to see how it has devolved from both political statements, and artistic endevours to mindless kids scribbling on walls because their playstation has broken.

You can do better than that Oops, rise above it.



[edit on 5-3-2005 by Netchicken]

Its no longer Oops ideal of "civil disobedience," just vandalism akin to breking windows in unoccupied buildings. The sad thing is to see how it has devolved from both political statements, and artistic endevours to mindless kids scribbling on walls because their playstation has broken.

I agree with you completely. I completely hate the way it has devolved, allthough there are some excellant examples of where the mold is broken like in the pics I posted above. Granted they are not the best I have seen, but I guess I misunderstood the purpose of this thread. With that said, I am completely against Tagging, but when people call it Graffiti I take a bit of offence. Graffiti to me is Art. Tagging is not. I know its all semantics

I know...I'm to idealistic

The sad truth is what Netchicken stated...why is it that everything seems like that...

Rap Music, Guerilla Warfare and the list goes on and on...nothing is as good as it used to be. I'll share some grafitti pics from China...they suck.

it'll take me some time to get them uploaded...there is a middle finger one too.

Whatever you want to call it - tagging/graffiti/wall-art - is wrong if done on the property of people/organizations that own it. I respect the fact that you aren't going to "tag" (or whatever you call it) on my house, that's super, I respect the fact that you are speaking out against a government if you don't believe in it, but making other people suffer (because they have to waste their money to clean it up, etc.) is not right. I have seen some beautiful pieces of artwork (ever read the book, "The Mole People" - it's kinda sorta off topic, but very good read, if not just for entertainment purposes... Jennifer Toth I believe is the author) but that still does not mean you have the right to inflict harm on another for your artistic/political views or gain. Forgive me if I offended your artistic side - I did not mean to say you aren't talented in your hobby of choice.

-the "Smart Guy"

That's ok, I'm not offended I just like to come off the same way I feel others are. It's kinda like forum tennis. And then slowly but surely we can go back to honest and more relaxing discussion.

Yeah...It's wrong but sometimes that's why it's done. Like underage drinking. I was 16 and drank bacardi 151 my liquer of choice. Now I'm 25 and I don't even like to drink. I've drank a life times amount of alchohol and now think I should try and stop as difficult as it is.

Point is, we sometimes do things because we shouldn't. This doesn't make it right of course but it makes it interesting. That's why most people 'tag' these days. I don't. I think I would like to in China because that would be wicked cool - but you have to be able to face the consquences. Getting caught and having to pay for it.

I think graffitti is not as bad because other forms of vanalism are stupid. If graffitti is done right, you shouldn't have to spend money to clean it. Think of those ladies who walk around the cities with razor blades taking down posters and stickers that shouldn't be on the walls and windows. This is costing more money and is worse.

Well put in all manners, Oops. Reminds me of how much I'd love to rob a bank, or NOT pull over when a cop cherries me up, or something like that. Not because I'm willing to pay the consequences for doing such a thing! (by no means, I don't want to go to prison/be punished, which is why I don't do it - plus, I have no desire to punish others for my amusement, heh heh - well maybe some people ) but just to see if I can get away with it. I appreciate your good response.