African Kingdoms: Great Zimbabwe AAT Questions

A Video on the Ancient African Monomotapa Empire which is located in present day Zimbabwe.

It traces its rise and origins in the Gold Trade with East Africa and the Portuguese as well as its eventual decline.

Colonial Propaganda meant to deny the site's African origins is also discussed.

Of late, Michael Tellinger and others have introduced alternative Histories of these Ancient African sites suggesting that they are of Sumerian Heritage i.e. The Lost City Of Enki in the Abzu.

The official History clearly concludes that the site is of African origin but to the extent that it may be possible, I dont want to simply dismiss investigating the alternative theories because they contradict my own pride in the site as an African.

In Colonial times they attributed the City to the Phoenicians.

This is now regarded as Racist propaganda but I cant help noticing its relationship to the Eastern Civilization that began in Sumer.

Is there any weight to or point in considering these alternative points of view or are they just a new form of Racist Propaganda denying African History using the AAT.

I would like to think its not Racist but just an honest attempt to re-evalute the History of the Site.

Don't really know which way to turn on this issue.

a reply to: Vhedza

Listen to me very carefully. Do you hate Africans? Do you wish there were zero black people residing in your home country? Do ever just wish you could kill a black person and get away with it? Would you reject a lifesaving blood transfusion if they told you the blood came from a black person?

No? To all those questions? Then you're not racist against blacks and any question you may have cannot be racist. Its ok to be curious and want to seek truth. Break free from the mental slavery, the mental shackles of "racism"!

Just be yourself bro, if anyone assumes racism, they are the ones who have issues, not you. You're doing fine. Just don't doubt yourself so much. Oh and thanks for sharing this. I'm like a fiend for history... I need a good fix every now and then.


And its ok to ask a question, form a hypothesis, and test it against the available data, and then have the hypothetical hypothesis be wrong. Maybe the Africans did build this. You won't reach a satisfying answer unless you ask the questions.

Concerns of racism only serve to stifle the conversation so that questions are not asked. Then we get nowhere. We must reject these kind of mental gestapo tactics. Our minds must be free to think without restraint.

originally posted by: 3n19m470
a reply to: Vhedza

Listen to me very carefully. Do you hate Africans? Do you wish there were zero black people residing in your home country? Do ever just wish you could kill a black person and get away with it? Would you reject a lifesaving blood transfusion if they told you the blood came from a black person?

No? To all those questions? Then you're not racist against blacks and any question you may have cannot be racist. Its ok to be curious and want to seek truth. Break free from the mental slavery, the mental shackles of "racism"!

Just be yourself bro, if anyone assumes racism, they are the ones who have issues, not you. You're doing fine. Just don't doubt yourself so much. Oh and thanks for sharing this. I'm like a fiend for history... I need a good fix every now and then.

I'm Black...

a reply to: Vhedza

The Gold Rhino What amazing skills.......................................... They had a proper manufacturing industry producing stunning things like the Rhino. Wonderful.................. I may be a Brit but heavens do I love southern Africa

Not nearly enough subsaharan african history discussed around here. Thanks for this thread.

Id suspect that there were outside influences from people like phoenicians. Its what we humans do...coopt what we like from other humans.

a reply to: Vhedza
Simoly from the historical viewpoint, I don't think we should underestimate the ability of cultures to develop independently. If similar circumstances produce similar results, it isn't always necessary to assume borrowing.

For me, a key point against colonisation is that the city is inland These ancient sea-trading cultures tended to make their settlements on the coast, which would frequently have the side-effect of stimulating the self-organisation of the inland peoples. The best bet seems to be that the empire was a similar response to the trading enterprise of the Arabs.

originally posted by: Vhedza

originally posted by: 3n19m470
a reply to: Vhedza

Listen to me very carefully. Do you hate Africans? Do you wish there were zero black people residing in your home country? Do ever just wish you could kill a black person and get away with it? Would you reject a lifesaving blood transfusion if they told you the blood came from a black person?

No? To all those questions? Then you're not racist against blacks and any question you may have cannot be racist. Its ok to be curious and want to seek truth. Break free from the mental slavery, the mental shackles of "racism"!

Just be yourself bro, if anyone assumes racism, they are the ones who have issues, not you. You're doing fine. Just don't doubt yourself so much. Oh and thanks for sharing this. I'm like a fiend for history... I need a good fix every now and then.

I'm Black...

Ok. Everything I said still stands except the perspective of those initial questions. Do you feel that the people asking these questions just hate black people for some reason? Or do you feel they are searching for the truth?

Everything I said, I still mean it, and I still consider you a bro. Be yourself. Don't be afraid to ask questions. Don't worry about offending someone. Truth should be the priority in most cases.

(there ARE situations we all face in our personal lives where we interact with someone who cannot handle the truth without it destroying the relationship and for various reasons we may decide we want to keep the relationship intact)

Ask the uncomfortable, inconvenient questions if it's something you wanna know.

Color is irrelevant when it comes to the truth.

I mean, unless you're asking actual racist questions.

(ex. "why do white people always live in nice houses?" or "why do black people always steal?" answer to both is "they don't" but the question is designed to foment racism and division.)

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Vhedza
Simoly from the historical viewpoint, I don't think we should underestimate the ability of cultures to develop independently. If similar circumstances produce similar results, it isn't always necessary to assume borrowing.

At the same time there appears to have been considerable settlement from the Middle East throughout southern Africa two thousand years ago. The Lemba tribe for example carried their religious descent from Israel to the present day tip of Africa, surely if they took their religion with them then they would also have taken their trades and skills?

originally posted by: Vhedza

originally posted by: 3n19m470
a reply to: Vhedza

Listen to me very carefully. Do you hate Africans? Do you wish there were zero black people residing in your home country? Do ever just wish you could kill a black person and get away with it? Would you reject a lifesaving blood transfusion if they told you the blood came from a black person?

No? To all those questions? Then you're not racist against blacks and any question you may have cannot be racist. Its ok to be curious and want to seek truth. Break free from the mental slavery, the mental shackles of "racism"!

Just be yourself bro, if anyone assumes racism, they are the ones who have issues, not you. You're doing fine. Just don't doubt yourself so much. Oh and thanks for sharing this. I'm like a fiend for history... I need a good fix every now and then.

I'm Black...

That doesn't matter.
If you are reluctant to believe that the Zimbabwe civilization was entirely indigenous, and fear that you are thinking like a racist.....
It isn't racist to entertain hypotheses if you are using facts in entertaining your ideas.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
a reply to: Vhedza

The Gold Rhino

What amazing skills.......................................... They had a proper manufacturing industry producing stunning things like the Rhino. Wonderful.................. I may be a Brit but heavens do I love southern Africa

Yeah...Thats from Mapungubwe in South Africa...I did an article on it, thats regarded as the predecessor to Great Zimbabwe.

Here's the link:

The Lost City Of Mapungubwe

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: Vhedza

originally posted by: 3n19m470
a reply to: Vhedza

Listen to me very carefully. Do you hate Africans? Do you wish there were zero black people residing in your home country? Do ever just wish you could kill a black person and get away with it? Would you reject a lifesaving blood transfusion if they told you the blood came from a black person?

No? To all those questions? Then you're not racist against blacks and any question you may have cannot be racist. Its ok to be curious and want to seek truth. Break free from the mental slavery, the mental shackles of "racism"!

Just be yourself bro, if anyone assumes racism, they are the ones who have issues, not you. You're doing fine. Just don't doubt yourself so much. Oh and thanks for sharing this. I'm like a fiend for history... I need a good fix every now and then.

I'm Black...

That doesn't matter.
If you are reluctant to believe that the Zimbabwe civilization was entirely indigenous, and fear that you are thinking like a racist.....
It isn't racist to entertain hypotheses if you are using facts in entertaining your ideas.

I dont think its Racist just to ponder the question but its like the issue cant even be raised without it being seen as an attack on indigenous Ciultures...The same is also happening with the Meso-American Sites.

originally posted by: 3n19m470

originally posted by: Vhedza

originally posted by: 3n19m470
a reply to: Vhedza

Listen to me very carefully. Do you hate Africans? Do you wish there were zero black people residing in your home country? Do ever just wish you could kill a black person and get away with it? Would you reject a lifesaving blood transfusion if they told you the blood came from a black person?

No? To all those questions? Then you're not racist against blacks and any question you may have cannot be racist. Its ok to be curious and want to seek truth. Break free from the mental slavery, the mental shackles of "racism"!

Just be yourself bro, if anyone assumes racism, they are the ones who have issues, not you. You're doing fine. Just don't doubt yourself so much. Oh and thanks for sharing this. I'm like a fiend for history... I need a good fix every now and then.

I'm Black...

Ok. Everything I said still stands except the perspective of those initial questions. Do you feel that the people asking these questions just hate black people for some reason? Or do you feel they are searching for the truth?

Everything I said, I still mean it, and I still consider you a bro. Be yourself. Don't be afraid to ask questions. Don't worry about offending someone. Truth should be the priority in most cases.

(there ARE situations we all face in our personal lives where we interact with someone who cannot handle the truth without it destroying the relationship and for various reasons we may decide we want to keep the relationship intact)

Ask the uncomfortable, inconvenient questions if it's something you wanna know.

Color is irrelevant when it comes to the truth.

I mean, unless you're asking actual racist questions.

(ex. "why do white people always live in nice houses?" or "why do black people always steal?" answer to both is "they don't" but the question is designed to foment racism and division.)

Agreed...Even Black people are getting so defensive at times its just difficult to get a question answered factually...

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
Not nearly enough subsaharan african history discussed around here. Thanks for this thread.

Id suspect that there were outside influences from people like phoenicians. Its what we humans do...coopt what we like from other humans.

Makes sense...Are Tellinger & Co taking it too far though?

a reply to: Vhedza

Cheers mate Great thread btw

a reply to: Vhedza
Yes, I understand.
The same problem has presented itself when archeologists dared to say that their findings indicated the Anasazi in the US southwest practiced cannibalism. Native people threw a hissy fit. Damned racist archeologists saying that their ancestors were cannibals, how dare they.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
a reply to: Vhedza

Cheers mate

Great thread btw

Thanks...

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: Vhedza
Yes, I understand.
The same problem has presented itself when archeologists dared to say that their findings indicated the Anasazi in the US southwest practiced cannibalism. Native people threw a hissy fit. Damned racist archeologists saying that their ancestors were cannibals, how dare they.

Precisely...People cant just ask questions anymore...

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
Not nearly enough subsaharan african history discussed around here. Thanks for this thread.

That's exactly what I was thinking. We have/had another fellow around here who used to do some interesting threads on African history. Khnum i think his name was...?

Id suspect that there were outside influences from people like phoenicians. Its what we humans do...coopt what we like from other humans.

If they could do it once, it seems they would have done it again, somewhere else relatively nearby, geographically and chronologically. Is this a unique settlement in the region/era? (im not asking you to find this out for me, lol. im just kind of wondering out loud...)

Its not out of the question that they would only do it once. It's just one indicator to look for that I thought of. *shrug*

a reply to: ufoorbhunter
That would not necessarily make them anything more than the stimulating bringers of new ideas, employed by the local rulers rather than taking their place.

I skimmed about, and, it seems the controversy is mentioned at around the 46 minute mark, for those interested.

It is an impressive site if the Africans did build it. I can see why people want to know the truth, and I can see why there is some controversy.

You know what I think is cool though? HUMANKIND built it. And we are all a part of the family.

If aliens come pick up a black person from Earth and brought them home and asked them to tell the other aliens about Earth, they're not gonna care which Part of the family did what. They're gonna be more concerned with "what have you done as a whole?"

That said, just because I like the alien/god perspective, I understand why other people want to argue about it. (not saying You want to argue)