NEWS: Four Canadian Police Killed in Pot Raid

This is horrible, my condolences go out to the family and friends of the Mounties. The fact that the assailant had a criminal record, perhaps should have been in jail, and was a known threat to society makes this story even more tragic.

first, we legalize alchohol, which rhetoric at the time claimed wasn't harmful. Now the rhetoric for legalizing marijuana, and it's mostly the same lines. Next, what, peyote? There's already agitiation for all grown intoxicant/stimulant/hallucinogens to be legalized.

Sure, pot isn't dangerous. Just ignore the crime associated with it, or tragedies happening because of it. Rationalize it with stuff about it being the sellers or it's illegality. Justify it with the crime intensity during the Prohibition. It's not addictive, but the fact that people will go to such extreme lengths to get it, jeapordize their own lives and those of their families to get this "harmless" fix is nothing to be concerned about.

Everytime another person falls due to alchohol, or any chemical use, it pisses me off to hear the "solution" is legailzation. Every drunk driver that kills a family, I'd rather hear there's a ban on sale of alchohol than people saying pot is better. Why do you think America's police call it a DUI? Not DWI, od Drving While Intoxicated. It's Driving Under the Influence. So it covers all the chemicals people load up on and kill with. All these things we should just legalize so, what, everyone can join the insanity?

And with the same voice that screams "legalize marijuana", we hear voices demanding vidoe game manufacturers be held responsible for crimes commited by kids. Insanity.

Originally posted by Journey
No handguns in Canada, in case you didn't know- at least they were outlawed the last time I was there. I am curious if they were even armed.

Outlaw guns and ONLY OUTLAWS have guns.

Originally posted by Phugedaboudet
And with the same voice that screams "legalize marijuana", we hear voices demanding vidoe game manufacturers be held responsible for crimes commited by kids. Insanity.

When Alcohol was Illegal in America, the Organized crime Money begat the Violence, now Marijuana is BIG (multibillions) business in Canada, can you see how violence can be tied to the money?

Legalization will take the money out of it. When small business can legally produce pot the price will drop. Violence will disappear when criminals cant compete with business.

Just like legalizing alchohol removed the violence and money from it's manufacture?

Tell that to Anhauser-Busch. No money there.
Tell that to liquor stores that get robbed by thugs with gunbs, and their owners in the hospital. Tell the kids who've ever found themselves lying against the wall after they've been slammed against it by a drunken parent, wondering what the # they did wrong. No violence there.

Same arguments to legalize alchohol are the same ones to legalize weed. And will be the same arguments to legalize the next step, and so on and so on. Until people wake up, and realize that just because something feels good to ingest-and doesn't kill immediately-is not necessarily something to be worshipped and preached about to everyone. Wasn't long ago that coc aine was the freaking "miracle drug".

quote]Originally posted by Kinja

Originally posted by Phugedaboudet
And with the same voice that screams "legalize marijuana", we hear voices demanding vidoe game manufacturers be held responsible for crimes commited by kids. Insanity.

When Alcohol was Illegal in America, the Organized crime Money begat the Violence, now Marijuana is BIG (multibillions) business in Canada, can you see how violence can be tied to the money?

Legalization will take the money out of it. When small business can legally produce pot the price will drop. Violence will disappear when criminals cant compete with business.

Originally posted by Phugedaboudet
Just like legalizing alchohol removed the violence and money from it's manufacture?

Tell that to Anhauser-Busch. No money there.
Tell that to liquor stores that get robbed by thugs with gunbs, and their owners in the hospital. Tell the kids who've ever found themselves lying against the wall after they've been slammed against it by a drunken parent, wondering what the # they did wrong. No violence there.

Same arguments to legalize alchohol are the same ones to legalize weed. And will be the same arguments to legalize the next step, and so on and so on. Until people wake up, and realize that just because something feels good to ingest-and doesn't kill immediately-is not necessarily something to be worshipped and preached about to everyone. Wasn't long ago that coc aine was the freaking "miracle drug".

Anhauser-Busch Inc. is not violently killing people are they? Reading comprehension is paramount to any online discussion. Please try.

In the US there is a level of personal responsibility, The manufacturer/distillers of alcohol are not liable for the actions of those who use the product. Your argument would be valid if the companies making the booze are comitting crime.

Thanks, palg1 for the clarification. I just remember Crossing the border on three different trips on the AlCan highway(Alaska to Florida 3 times) and each time The handgun issue was major- seems like the only thing the Canadan Border Guards were concerned with was whether I had a hand gun on me or not. And then, I was pulled over in B.C. for going a bit too fast, and the officer was not wearing a handgun- kind of surprised me. Don't I remember not long back it was life if you carried and got got caught with a concealed handgun? Maybe I am wrong.
It is a shame that anyone has to get shot, especially over a growing operation.

Mull one thing over. Pharmacies in the USA are allowed to sell Cigarettes that kill people, but they are not allowed to sell Marijuana to Chemo patients who can't keep anything down and have to use semi-toxic meds to keep food down...

What does this story have to do with America? Cops are killed in Canada and someone has to say something bad about America. I just don't understand.

Perhaps Al Canadah would take Illegal drug exporting serious if America ships guns into Al Canadah even weight, for Marijuana caught at the border. Ship Al Canadiani Criminals 3-4 guns per 10 lbs of pot. Fantastic Idea!!

TORONTO - A bagpiper played "Amazing Grace" and flags flew at half-staff Friday as Canadians grappled with the deadliest attack on police officers in 120 years, after four Mounties were slain during a raid on a marijuana farm in a rural western hamlet.

The slayings stunned a nation that prides itself on far fewer acts of gun violence than its neighbor to the south.
Canadians Stunned Over Killing of Mounties

Thanks for the update, FredT. This is a sad story, my condolences to the families of the slain Mounties and to the citizens.
Unusual that the gunman got all 4 officers, and they were armed with handguns. He must have been waiting for them-

Originally posted by Journey
Unusual that the gunman got all 4 officers, and they were armed with handguns. He must have been waiting for them-

That is just about the jist of it. Apparently, he picked off two at range, and he walked into the house and shot two more. Automotive officers arriving on scene shot him (one was wounded) and he stumbled back inside to bleed to death. It was, indeed, an ambush. I very much doubt he even left the farm.

DE

Originally posted by Kinja
Perhaps Al Canadah would take Illegal drug exporting serious if America ships guns into Al Canadah even weight, for Marijuana caught at the border. Ship Al Canadiani Criminals 3-4 guns per 10 lbs of pot. Fantastic Idea!!

You have hit on a very real problem. That is almost exactly what is happening now, at least in BC. Just change it to coc aine and guns, and you have pretty much summed up the cross-border drug trade. Not a good deal for either side, I think.

This is a sad day for police officers, and more so for the families of these good men who died because of a selfish murderer sob.....

I hope marijuana is never legalized, in Canada or in the US....if it is legalized in Canada, the deaths of these brave men would have been for nothing...

I can't believe how many people in here want marijuana to be legalized..... Marijuana has over 400 different chemicals...it is more toxic than cigarettes, contrary to what those who want to legalize it say... Smoking one cigarette of marijuana is the same as smoking over 6 tobacco cigarettes...except marijuana has other side effects which tobacco cigarettes do not have and which are even worse than tobacco...

I have heard those people who use marijuana, mostly from these same forums..., give all kinds of reasons and concocted lies to try to get people to accept marijuana.... one of the excuses, is the same some people are saying here... that legalizing marijuana will stop crime, and will stop many people from using it, including kids that are only using it because it is illegal....

Well, tell that to the millions of kids who get high, or try to, from legal products such as glue and paint.... You legalize marijuana, and you make it even more available to kids....

To those that use marijuana....use the braincells you have left, and realize that what is causing all those side effects you like so much are caused by the toxic chemicals from the drug as they kill braincells.....

It sickens me to see so many people asking to make a drug that has caused more than enough problems, including deaths, to be legalized...

So many of you bash and blame the present administration of the US for what you call crimes, yet you want to legalize a drug that has killed more people than the war in Iraq and Afgahnistan together...

It's dangerous. Marijuana use is a major factor in high risk behaviors such as unprotected sex and impaired driving. Much more toxic than that used a few decades ago, today's marijuana causes serious lung diseases, including cancer. In fact, smoking three marijuana cigarettes is equivalent to smoking 20 tobacco cigarettes. Recent research also suggests that marijuana use damages the immune system.

It's a drag. Students who use marijuana get lower grades, have impaired memory and learning skills, and are less likely to develop the sustained motivation to pursue their goals. Teenage users are up to five times more likely than non-users to suffer depression or anxiety. Once they become adults, even if they no longer use the drug, their risk of depression and other psychological disorders is much higher.

Excerpted from.
www.talbotpartnership.org...

My condolescence goes to the families of those Canadian mounted police officers...


---edited for errors and to add comment---



[edit on 5-3-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
I hope marijuana is never legalized, in Canada or in the US....if it is legalized in Canada, the deaths of these brave men would have been for nothing...

Amen to that. Aside from the inherent toxic effects the premise of its medicinal benifits are also way overblown. No, I don't want to see page after page of testimonials from "High TImes" or Mother Jones magazine either. Drug companies can replicate the THC so there is not meed for the hundreds of "medicinal" pot farmers out there. :shk:

The tragedy of this episode is not to be underscored and my heart goes out to the families of the four.

Ah if it were that simple... Here's a link on the now Dead suspect's past...

www.cbc.ca...

It seems he has had a history with the RCMP and has been in and out of jail for a long time. And btw He started in his illicit drug trade when he started bootlegging Moonshine when he was a teenager, then he went onto other substances like Weed.

I do not need to go into High Times to get info on the positive effects of THC. I also do not have to do that either to get the health benefits(of Eating it not smoking..). Just sign up to a few medical journels, like BMJ and Nature to name just a couple and you will see in thier archives all that you will ever need. But anyway this is the last I am going to say anything on this subject on ATS as the point is moot. Legalisation may never happen in our lifetimes, but Decriminalisation will sweep the west mark my words.

i hope for the sake of your children, if you have any, that there is no decriminalisation, or legalisation of marijuana...

Too many kids get brain damage by sniffing the fumes of legal products, yet you want a drug which is worse, to be decriminalised... and yes more kids will use marijuana if it is ever legalized, not to mention the other problems that it will bring....

[edit on 5-3-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
i hope for the sake of your children, if you have any, that there is no decriminalisation, or legalisation of marijuana...

Too many kids get brain damage by sniffing the fumes of legal products, yet you want a drug which is worse, to be decriminalised... and yes more kids will use marijuana if it is ever legalized, not to mention the other problems that it will bring....

[edit on 5-3-2005 by Muaddib]

Okay then I challenge you to change my mind! Show me a peer reviewed and widely cited study with abosultely no scent of a conflict of interest either way and I might consider yours and FredT's point of view.(And who know I might even change my mind)

If I do plan on having children(which is doubtfull due to medical reasons...) will I ever smoke around them? NO I would not even consider it, and I mean smoke ANYTHING not even incense around a developing brain, any type of Free Radical exposure is a bad thing IMHO.

Why are you comparing Marijuana smokers to Glue or Paint sniffers? Seems like a pointless comparision, the only logical comparision in this case is Marijuana and Tobacco or Alchohol.

Decriminalisation != Legalisation plain and simple. I support Legalisation as I hate Big Brother purportedly "protecting us", and I oppose the propaganda and lies that seem to be coming back into vogue. I know people generally have to have something to be deathly afraid of, for the powers to pull the crap that they have been since the dawn of time. It's called bait and switch, I'm sure you are familiar with that Tactic Muaddib.

Well I'm finished, I look foward to your reply. Hope it's worth it

It's a drag. Students who use marijuana get lower grades, have impaired memory and learning skills, and are less likely to develop the sustained motivation to pursue their goals.

This is simply not true. Sure there will be some that smoke that the above statement applies to but it also applies to others that don't smoke. I know people that got straight A's in High School and College that smoke weed and later went on to have very successfull careers that require a lot of brain power. I am talking about 6 figure salary type of jobs. You do not get straight A's if you are not highly motivated.

Sure weed is bad for the lungs but is is not the evil drug that some make it out to be. the reason the cops were killed was over money; pure and simple.

I hate to say it, but I'm with Muad'dib on this one. Weed=bad. It might not be as bad a cigarettes, but that doesn't mean that it's super-fantastic either. I'm starting to believe the traditional hymns from the anti-drug commercials now, just based on watching my brother. He used to be okay, but now... he's apathetic. He's just looking to get high, drink, and lie around. Over the last year, he's failed a bunch of very basic classes, like English and Math. Worse, he's bringing a more criminal element into the house. He had a party a few weeks ago, and there was all kinds of crap going on- kids doing coke off the kitchen table, one girl so high on E that she couldn't move... it was unpleasant. There were brawls and stuff too, but that's just a liquor thing. The fact of the matter is that weed has had a very negative effect on almost everyone I've seen use it. Even the responsible users, there's a subtle change in them.

DE