The Abortion is Murder - Madness on the so called Christian Right

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

Lol, 30 weeks? at 20 weeks they can survive outside the womb (that number keeps getting lower, too). They can feel pain by 8 weeks as well. So when you're ripping their arms and legs off, they're suffering immense pain.

So a woman has the right to kill her unborn child because its her choice??? Why is it if a man chooses not to pay child support he ends up in jail for it??

originally posted by: BigDaddy38
So a woman has the right to kill her unborn child because its her choice??? Why is it if a man chooses not to pay child support he ends up in jail for it??

What's your beef? You can't force a woman to abort you child? Or, you can't legally self abort your born child by refusing to pay for its support?

a reply to: Sookiechacha

I support the 2nd Amendment. Do you support the Constitution? How about the 14th Amendment, for starters?

Sure you do. At least you're pretending to, for those who are born. Do you support the right to life? I certainly support the 14th amendment. That baby wasn't given due process, was it?

Nope. That's not the job of the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court's job is to determine if the law is constitutional, and it clearly is not.

Haha, but to strike it down as unconstitutional, yes they're going to have to define it. That's the whole point of the bill. It was written precisely for that reason. In determining why it is or isn't constitutional, they have to provide an argument. They can't just say, "nope, we said so." Don't pretend you don't understand this.

a reply to: Dfairlite

Lol, 30 weeks? at 20 weeks they can survive outside the womb

Not all fetuses are healthy. Very few will survive at 20 weeks. Not all fetuses will achieve viability at 30 weeks. Sometimes, a fetus may be alive, but it still won't ever achieve viability. No matter how much its mother and father want them.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

True. And?

a reply to: Dfairlite

You can laugh away the scientific findings of researchers in the pertinent fields all you want; I give not one iota. I already framed the underlying reasons for my ethical concern - in that it all hinges on sentience. I just demonstrated that sentience arises during the development and it's not present during conception. Thus abortions occurring prior to that point is amoral in my view.

What are you basing yours on exactly?

a reply to: Dfairlite

That baby wasn't given due process, was it?

The Supreme Court ruled, on several occasions, that the unborn are not recognized as "persons" in the US Constitution. So, they aren't entitled to "Due Process" and in fact are not guaranteed a "right to life".

They ruled that, on several occasions, because of what it says in the 14th Amendment of the US Constitution.


"Don't pretend you don't understand this." LOL

originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: Sookiechacha

True. And?

Ergo, late term abortions.

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

If we were to believe that one study you gave that is still within the 2nd trimester. However, we know that we can start measuring brain waves of the unborn with an electroencephalogram (EEG) at 12 weeks.

What's more we also know that the first synapses begin forming on the 5th week after conception. So brain activity begins even earlier than that study you excerpted states.

But here is the problem. Let's say that you have a 5 year old son, and that something happens to him/her and your child enters a deep coma. The doctor tells you that there is an 80%-100% chance your child will wake up from the coma and will be completely healthy and without any neurological problems. What the "pro-abortion" crowd says is that that child is not human, and has no right to life and that the mother can use ANY reason to end the life of that child. The same thing goes for the unborn.

Well. . . if this thread is any indication, then the abortion battle is going to be an ugly one.

For my part, I will never think that it is okay for anyone to arbitrarily kill a human unborn child.

It is an ugly thing, abortion.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Dfairlite

That baby wasn't given due process, was it?

The Supreme Court ruled, on several occasions, that the unborn are not recognized as "persons" in the US Constitution. So, they aren't entitled to "Due Process" and in fact are not guaranteed a "right to life".

They ruled that, on several occasions, because of what it says in the 14th Amendment of the US Constitution.


"Don't pretend you don't understand this." LOL

You should be the one to stop pretending... First of all in the Declaration of Independence it is argued that there is a right to life. It doesn't say ANYTHING about abortion being a right... Despite leftists claiming it does... The U.S. Constitution also does not state that "abortion is a right."

Even Roe vs Wade argued that on the third trimester life is viable and as such the state can rule to protect the life of the unborn...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

If we were to believe that one study you gave

So lets be skeptical of mine but not yours? How's that work? I cited a legit study from actual researchers published in a legit scientific journal. I wasn't claiming yours is invalid. They are addressing separate points.

that is still within the 2nd trimester

Right? I'm giving the reasoning for my ethical position. It all hinges on sentience. If an abortion occurs after the science shows the fetus has developed to the point sentience can emerge then I might find it immoral depending on the circumstance.

However, we know that we can start measuring brain waves of the unborn with an electroencephalogram (EEG) at 12 weeks.

That does not negate my argument. It's not enough to show brain activity. A demonstration of brain activity does not equal sentience. Did you digest the study I posted? Yes, neural development begins at a certain point and continues to mature throughout the gestation. It has to reach a critical point in that maturation for sufficient substrate for sentience to emerge. That's specifically what that study addresses.

If it's not sentience that's the basis for your moral concern then what is it?

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

I'd like to think the compassionate position would transcend ones own neighborhood, but fine..

Oh, hell NO!

I have been told so many time that I needed to shut up and go sit in a corner because I wasn't a woman, I lost count. Now you want to throw away the exact same argument when it's used against you? HELL NO! You're not in Alabama, so why don't YOU go sit in the corner while everyone here gets their say?

You see, that's how it works... people don't just get to toss out arguments then refute them again as they get shot back on them. I know you don't understand this, but you will once Roe vs. Wade is nothing but a dim memory of Judicial overreach lambasted in the history books. The whole damn reason I am here defending the Alabama law instead of agreeing with you on sentience is because of dishonest one-sided tactics like this. It took a long time to do it, but I was finally convinced there can be no reasoning with anyone who is pro-abortion until their high horse is dog food.

TheRedneck

OK Conservative Republican 'right to life' anti abortionists - You got the Devil to pay

Abortion in Mexico

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

Abortion in Mexico is a controversial issue. Its legal status varies by state. The procedure is offered on request to any woman with up to twelve weeks into a pregnancy in Mexico City, but is severely restricted in most states.[1][2] As of April 2015, 138,792 abortions have been carried out in the capital city since its decriminalization (2007).[3] The abortion laws and their enforcement vary by region, but in conservative parts of the country, women are routinely prosecuted and convicted for having abortions: More than 679 women have been convicted for abortion in conservative-leaning states, such as Guanajuato.[2][4]

WANT THE GREAT WALL OF TRUMP to stop them from coming here - But you don't care that they live in poverty and
are trying to come here out of desperation? - Really great god fearing Americans - Your hypocrisy disgusts me.

Bringing unwanted life into the World does not bother you - It should, it should bother the depths of you hollow and
hypocritical soul.

Your God is not my God - My God hates Human hypocrisy - the hypocrisly that would force women to breed unwanted
life and is not willing to pay for it.

Up to 2007 abortion was illegal in Mexico - Some of those people forced to live an breed in poverty want to come here
- So 'Right to Life' Christians don't you tink you should open the border and let them?

Hell, are you willing to pay for every unwanted life both here, and in Mexico, and the rest of the World ?

'Right to Life'? - In what World? - A World overpopulated with unwanted children?

Sounds like child abuse to me.


To continue:

Abortion in Latin America and the Caribbean INCIDENCE AND TRENDS

During 2010–2014, an estimated 6.5 million induced abortions occurred each year in Latin America and the Caribbean—up from 4.4 million during 1990–1994. The annual rate of abortion is estimated at 44 per 1,000 women of reproductive age (15–44), a slight increase from 40 per 1,000 in 1990–1994. The regional abortion rate is roughly 48 per 1,000 for married women and 29 per 1,000 for unmarried women.1 As of 2010–2014, abortion rates range across subregions, from 33 per 1,000 women in Central America to 48 per 1,000 in South America to 59 per 1,000 in the Caribbean. The proportion of all pregnancies in Latin America and the Caribbean ending in abortion increased between 1990–1994 and 2010–2014, from 23% to 32%.1

Qhote source:
www.guttmacher.org...

Now hypocrites I would suggest you direct you attention to this genocide [it is a genocide to you isn't it?]

And to avoid being called hypocrites any longer I would suggest you go to your very hypocritical Republicn party and force them to open the border
to all the new babies you brought into the world by stopping all the murder - Right?

And act quickly kest you find yourselves devoured by the unborn population surge.

a reply to: AlienView

But killing children isn't child abuse

a reply to: AlienView

I think, what is most disturbing, is your attempt to justify killing unborn human life.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Oh, hell NO!

I have been told so many time that I needed to shut up and go sit in a corner because I wasn't a woman, I lost count. Now you want to throw away the exact same argument when it's used against you? HELL NO! You're not in Alabama, so why don't YOU go sit in the corner while everyone here gets their say?

First off, I'm a man. Secondly, I really don't think projecting negative experiences we've had with others onto our dialogue with each other will make for a healthy discourse. What they told you isn't necessarily what I would tell you. I'll extend you the same courtesy.

I honestly don't understand what 'argument was used against me' that i'm deflecting? The other member stated he or she agrees with the exception for rape victims but ultimately isn't concerned with the matter since he's not in Alabama. I responded with my belief that the more compassionate position would be to care... that's the humanist in me. I then, I think rightly, pointed out that it very well could be an issue in his neighborhood as well since the push is to take it to the Supreme Court. A sentiment you yourself just mirrored when you said "once Roe vs. Wade is nothing but a dim memory".

I know you don't understand this

I feel like I've done a pretty good job at keeping things civil and as objective as my mind permits, and yet your posts towards me are tinged with hostility and condescension. I'd so much rather have a dialogue and address arguments for the sake of understanding each others positions.

It took a long time to do it, but I was finally convinced there can be no reasoning with anyone who is pro-abortion until their high horse is dog food.

gallops off into the sunset

a reply to: DBCowboy

What is even more disturbing to me is that those who would so casually dispose of one human life are perilously close to being OK with disposing other human life.

A demonstrable lack of respect for life is the single largest red flag for determining who is at risk of becoming a serial killer. Too many times, they are the kids who delight in pulling the wings off of flies and tying firecrackers to cats' tails.

We are devolving back into animals.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Rationally speaking;

We've ALL established that it is a human being.

We've also ALL established that it is alive.

Abortion ends the life if a living human being.

I can't get any more rational than that.