The Abortion is Murder - Madness on the so called Christian Right

originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck

(1) Basically we have the right to life (being born and existing),
(2) freedom of choice and to freely pursue the life that gives us the most happiness, something a fetus doesn't legally have.

(1) Being born is what gives the right to life ..... before then the existence

is entirely a dependency on another?


(2) So that freedom of choice to pursue the life that gives the most happiness

in your eyes doesn't extend to a pregnant woman who for whatever reason doesn't

wish to proceed with the pregnancy?

a reply to: pthena

Yes, those are legal definitions. They exclude one class of homo sapiens. I find that grossly unfair.

You will also find state laws that allow for the charge of murder should someone intentionally cause the death of an unborn child.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Why is it that people can find every excuse to do something, but never an excuse to not to do something?

a reply to: DBCowboy

Why is it that people can find every excuse to do something, but never an excuse to not to do something?

I can think of many reasons to not punch, kick, or otherwise assault a pregnant woman, even if it were legal to do so.

I've always thought that that at least was a commonly held view, not needing specific discussion.

a reply to: pthena

I would have thought that enabling the death of an unborn child would be socially reprehensible as well, but here we are!

I'm not a Christian and I don't even like them much, but this idea that another human being belongs to a woman and she has the right to kill it is what seem preposterous to me. A woman who allows herself to get pregnant has signed a short term lease of her womb that ends at appx. 9 months. She needn't keep the baby after birth. She can give it away. There are any number of places that will take it no questions asked. But she should not be able to terminate the lease by killing the tenant. The only way you can even entertain the idea is to pretend that an unborn child is somehow not human. How you can maintain that you are an ethical person while holding that thought is anathema to me.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Because... thinking of an excuse to not make a baby is equivalent to thinking of an excuse not to have sex. That's all this is. Some people want to have free sex without any consequences so bad hey are willing to kill for that privilege.

They'll make up 'facts' that aren't factual, degrade an entire class of people, ignore religious views, try to silence free speech, even kill another human and damage their own bodies doing it, all to get that free irresponsible sexual thrill. It's an addiction, just as much as smoking or having a meth or opiate habit. That there dopamine is some pretty powerful stuff!

TheRedneck

originally posted by: AlienView
Yes, I know - They say God is on their side - God, the defender of the unborn - A God that states that every carnal act thet conceives is
protected by his devine will [remember baboons, life is conceived by carnal acts by sex] - OK righteous sobs now that you know what I think
of you - Let's proceed.

First, above all else, you are hypocrites - And there is nothing Jesus hated more than hypocrites.

You, in your twisted and sick ideology would force a Human female to bring to term unwanted life - because you say all conception is an act of
God.

I say there is no God in this universe that will forgive you for your hypocrisy - Your true hatred for the value and dignity of Human life
is obvious - And your disregard and demeaning of Human females is obvious.

In the upcoming election your political party of hypocrites will burn for its ant-female ideology
- So maybe you do love the Liberal left after all ?

Whaaaat? You mean they want to try to tell us we cant have unlimited sexual pleasure with zero consequences?

They have the audacity to tell us we cant chop up still living humans inside the womb??

Sick bastards...

How about THIS for a fair compromise on the abortion/no abortion argument (not, saying I support this approach, but floating it for discussion):

1.) Woman discovers she is pregnant and CHOOSES that she doesn't want to keep the baby

2.) Woman goes before an unbiased, non-judgmental, independent and non-governmental Arbiter

3.) Arbiter tosses a coin: HEADS = Abort...TAILS = Carry-to-full-term/Adoption
(Best 2 of 3 can be employed)...Witnesses are in attendance/results verified & documented for honest results

5.) Coin toss takes government out of the equation (beyond enforcement of the results)...but still gives 50/50 chance of either the abortion or the adoption taking place

6.) Results can be individually proclaimed as either FATE, FREE WILL, CHANCE, or GOD'S WILL by religious and non-religious, alike

a reply to: IAMTAT

I like it! Except... [insert weird time-travel graphic that has no semblance to reality here]...

THIS!... is CNN.

Breaking news, today, March 15th, 2036. Ivana Trump, Attorney General, has anounced the indictment of seven wealthy families for conspiracy to defraud the Abortion Determination Court. Trump has accused these parents of teenage girls of paying off the ADC in exchange for using 'fixed' coins... coins that will fall with a predetermined outcome. The indictments further accuse the ADC of using reverse-oriented coins to maintain a fixed abortion to full term ratio overall, meaning that other girls were forced to carry their children to term for adoption, without having any opportunity for abortion.

Trump's indictments also state that there is evidence the money for the bribes came from the Clinton Foundation. CNN approached Bill and Hillary Clinton to get their statements, but they refused to comment. To be fair, they did give CNN a 50:50 chance of getting a comment by flipping a coin. After seventeen attempts, the coin always landed on heads, so they did not comment.

In other news, the People's Republic of California is asking again for US aid. This is the sixth time the former state has made such a request since rejecting statehood in 2021 in protest after the re-election of Donald J. Trump as President. President Cher of the PRC has released a statement that the United States is expected to pay reparations to the citizens of the PRC for abandonment due to approving their request to withdraw from the Union. Vice President Pelosi added her comments... [cut to live feed of Pelosi speaking]...

[Pelosi]: It is obvious to anyone that squirrels need better jobs. That's what this really about. Republicans don't care about squirrels. Especially pink squirrels. Did you know I had a long conversation with a particularly attractive pink squirrel last night? We talked about this exact thing, and why the only way to correct the atrocities is to give pink squirrels the right to vote in US elections... [feed abruptly cuts off]...

(Sorry, left the crystal ball on a little too long there... poor Nancy...)

TheRedneck

originally posted by: Nyiah
To put it very simply, OP, using gardening terms -- this is a bunch of non-gardeners having a cow that I would dare change my mind about sprouting seeds and weed out any sprouts I don't want, or change my mind entirely and dump the sprouts all together. Evidently, all sprout lives matter/are sacred/etc even if they're not wanted.
No one should have to justify if they want to continue with the sprouts, or focus on their established plants instead. Edit: Or an empty yard, not everyone has or wants a lush one.

The same sentiment applies to women and abortion -- a bunch of non-incubators having a cow over whether or not someone continues to sprout something internally.Tend your own proverbial "garden" and never you mind what is in another's. It's not YOUR garden.

RIGHT

In a simplified way you have stated what the problem is

- Ad yes it is a religious issue -- Who gives these self appointed moralist the right to play God?

Who gives them the right to say all life is conceived as an act of God?

Give them an inch and they will take a mile - The'll set the World backwards, tell you what type of sex is OK,
with who and when.

Take away a woman's right to own her own body because you, in the name ot the state run religion you are
trying to create, and your rights, all of them will go down.

Think Muslim fundamentalism is bad? - If we don't stop these religious fanatics from playing God in this
country we can easily get just as bad, if not worse than the Muslim fanatics of today.

Do you really want another 'Inquisition' brought on by Fundamentalists, Catholics, and maybe even Mormons
[as well as others] again?

Do you really want women who have abortions and doctors who pwrfom them hunted down in another
Witch hunt, and them burned alive at the stake?

Isn't that really what this 'right to life' anti-abortion dialogue is all about?

Then take your religious fanaticism and keep it too yourself !!!

There is already too much misery in the World and we don't need unwanted life added to
the misery!!!

So I'm hearing that ONLY religious folk think killing babies and fetuses (feti?) is murder.

Is THAT what pro-abortionists are saying?

a reply to: AlienView

If a woman is aborting a life because it's going to put a cramp in her life style, maybe even change the shape of her perfect body, after all she wants to do what ever she wants without the responsibility of an 18 year noose around her neck, then I have to admit she does not qualify to be a parent. If she is willing to extinguish the life of her forming offspring so she can carry on as if nothing happened, I can't imagine what a horrible parent this person would be. At every opportunity she will berate that kid, blaming it on all her mistakes. She would be a parent from hell. So with this thought in mind, I have to concede to her wishes of being without child. Along with the aborted life coming from her uterus, take the whole baby making ability with it. Sterilization . Yup, from her own playbook, take her eggs and incubator.

Interesting that 'Jane Roe' (Norma McCorvey) has said, later in life, that her involvement in 'Roe v. Wade' was "the greatest mistake of her life".

a reply to: AlienView

Ironic since it is people like you who believe you know better than anyone else. We see this based on the people you choose to represent you. It's also ironic since it is your side which has always devalued human life... I wonder who is it that sees "humans are like viruses..."

But hey, you just wrote a thread full of insults and nothing really intelligent to say at all. Do you feel better now? But you should know that if you want to find a hypocrite all you have to do is look in a mirror.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: AlienView

Ironic since it is people like you who believe you know better than anyone else.

Ain't that the same thing the anti-abortionists do? Think they know better, are the be all, end all of perceptions & beliefs, etc? They don't have the right to tell me their perception is gold and I MUST adhere to their wants or desires. They do not, in fact, know better. Certainly not for others, that is only between them and theirs.

If we're going to whole hog with holding the reigns of the legal personal choices of total strangers hostage because of what ANOTHER total stranger believes, we'd also have to consider other stances of control over choices.

Just how much freedom of choice should we remove? Reproducing even when not wanting to is one step. The next logical one would be limiting when we can work at our choosing, Have those babies, even the ones you don't want, and stay home, right?
Argument caveat: I do actually think job aspirations should die for 16 or so years when you become mommy because you just committed yourself to a lengthy 24/7 job, and that dual working parent households are just as much a detriment to offspring as single mom households are, so there's that. Should MY personal belief of that be upheld and applied to everyone?

No. And it never should. I don't personally support moms working outside of legit serious circumstances where they have no choice (widows, abuse) but that does NOT mean my view should be hamfisted into the lives of others who believe differently.
I'd sure love to see the return of the nuclear family, but I'm not about to force it. What I believe applies to me & mine. THAT is the situation that matters, not the family next door, up the road, people I don't know in another state, etc. No matter how much we want something & believe in it, it's worth no longer exists when you force it down the gullet. Focus on those you know, not the people you will never impact at all.
Do you not see how easy "Mind your own business" really is to stick to?

And Redneck, you absolutely presented a spitballed parallel that didn't stick to the wall earlier. Instead of having a hissy fit over your attempt picked apart (like choosing to not smoke around people) just own it. "Yeah, I couldn't think of any legit point to counter with, sorry" goes a long way.

a reply to: Nyiah

Ain't that the same thing the anti-abortionists do? Think they know better, are the be all, end all of perceptions & beliefs, etc? They don't have the right to tell me their perception is gold and I MUST adhere to their wants or desires. They do not, in fact, know better. Certainly not for others, that is only between them and theirs.

They may not know better, but they certainly can tell you what to do. It happens every day. Walk into a WalMart and just decide you want that CD but refuse to pay for it. Others say that is theft, and you will obey that law or pay the consequences. There are people out there who think rape is no big deal; I say it is, and enough others said the same thing to make a law that says you can't do that.

And we can make a law that says you can't have an abortion any time you want one for any reason. As a matter of fact, Alabama just did!

So you can just suck it up.

Just how much freedom of choice should we remove? Reproducing even when not wanting to is one step. The next logical one would be limiting when we can work at our choosing, Have those babies, even the ones you don't want, and stay home, right?

Complete strawman. No one is even considering telling others when and where they can work... except maybe the socialists who are the same ones demanding the right to kill babies for ships and giggles.

Do you not see how easy "Mind your own business" really is to stick to?

Oh, "mind your own business," is it? Ironic...

And Redneck, you absolutely presented a spitballed parallel that didn't stick to the wall earlier. Instead of having a hissy fit over your attempt picked apart (like choosing to not smoke around people) just own it. "Yeah, I couldn't think of any legit point to counter with, sorry" goes a long way.

Every one of my examples was about people like YOU NOT minding their own business... especially the one about smoking. In one breath you berate others for not minding their own business, and in the exhale stroke you berate me for wanting others to mind their own business. How about YOU admit this is nothing more than you wanting to have sex without consequences, and you don't care who you hurt to get it?

Because that's all it is, and a blind man could see it.

TheRedneck

a reply to: AlienView

Hmmm, it's interesting considering that there are very determined moralists on the other side who want to force biological men into my changing rooms and showers and to allow those same men to compete alongside our daughters is they say they feel like girls that day.

How is that not a similarly moral stance.

Seems there is enough moralizing to go around.

And don't get up on your high horse and tell me it's about Civil Rights and protecting equal treatment of human beings because that's the same argument we make -- we're protecting the innocent's right to life same as we would for any other innocent human being.

originally posted by: IAMTAT
So I'm hearing that ONLY religious folk think killing babies and fetuses (feti?) is murder.

Is THAT what pro-abortionists are saying?

Isn't it nice to know that according to the OP, you just become Christian by being anti-abortion for birth control?

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

But hey, you just wrote a thread full of insults and nothing really intelligent to say at all. Do you feel better now? But you should know that if you want to find a hypocrite all you have to do is look in a mirror.

No, actually I feel kind of dirty talking to someone like you - Like the baboons I first mentioned are smarter and cleaner
- You have no spirituality - Your world is based upon the hypocrisy that led to every war, every destructive act of Human
History and is responsible for most, if not all the misery that still drives history.

And yes I am concerned with the unborn - Concerned that they might be born into a World run and controlled by
Hypocrites - Hypocrites that put leaders like Trump into power, who in fact couldn't give a dam about the
Christian right or the right to life - Except for the voting edge they give.

But as I kept signing off while blogging for Trump in the election that first put Trump into power [before I knew better]


"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time." -
Abraham Lincoln

But keep the faith - Maybe you will still win for as Eisenstein once said:

“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”
― Albert Einstein