1.92% of US population commits 75+% of mass shootings - Media remains silent

a reply to: Edumakated

I'm not convinced the parent issue is the root cause and not just one of several problems of which it is sometimes a cause of and sometimes the symptom of. There's a whole bunch of issues at work here and I'm not convinced dad staying home with the first woman he got pregnant will fix the situation. It's a lot bigger and more complicated than that.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

Mass shootings, say like what happened at Sandy Hook, don't have one person as a target. Those people just want to take out as many random people at a place as they can before they go down.

Gang shootings do have targets. They're after opposing gang members, often specific ones, and they simply don't care about collateral damage, so they'll seek to make the hit in any venue.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Edumakated

I'm not convinced the parent issue is the root cause and not just one of several problems of which it is sometimes a cause of and sometimes the symptom of. There's a whole bunch of issues at work here and I'm not concinced dad staying home with the first woman he got pregnant will fix the situation. It's a lot bigger and more complicated than that.

The three single biggest determinants of someone living in poverty are:

1) Single mothers
2) Not graduating high school
3) Criminal records

If anyone avoids those three things, the odds of living in poverty almost ZERO.

It is a self-perpetuating cycle that starts with single mothers. A young woman who can barely care for her own self has a child out of wedlock. The father in most cases is not a winner either. The woman will be stuck working a low or minimum wage job if she is lucky. Government benefits won't allow a man to be in the house, so it creates a financial incentive for the father to not marry and eventually leave.

Since money is tight, the woman then moves to a sh*tty neighborhood. The crappy neighborhood also will have crappy schools. So not only is the kid not getting the needed attention at home, they are attending a glorified juvy center with bunch of other kids being raised in the same circumstances.

As the kid gets older, he is behind intellectually. Not only that, he is being raised by an emotional female and he is not being taught how to problem solve LIKE A MAN. Between the testosterone and female bred emotions, the kid is a ticking time bomb.

Not only that, he is being "raised in the streets." The kids often from groups, gangs, cliques or whatever. Some of it is just survival. There are no low skilled jobs the kid can work because liberals have imported all the illegal aliens who now work those jobs. Also combine that with the increased minimum wages, a business rather just hire an ADULT instead of a teen at the same wage. So that bottom rung of the ladder that might give the kid a chance to work his way out has been removed. He has not choice but to run in the streets.

Eventually, he gets a criminal record. he knocks up his girlfriend and the cycle starts over....

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Edumakated

I'm not convinced the parent issue is the root cause and not just one of several problems of which it is sometimes a cause of and sometimes the symptom of. There's a whole bunch of issues at work here and I'm not convinced dad staying home with the first woman he got pregnant will fix the situation. It's a lot bigger and more complicated than that.

In a lot of cases, gangs really have replaced traditional fatherhood and family. In some places, the young single mothers you see, are having future gang members knowingly. It's the female gang role.

Sometimes, an older gang member will want to leave that life and raise his kids, but you never really leave a gang. It's very hard to do, especially if your friends are all still banging. And your kids are likely to grow up in that life which drastically reduces their chances of ever really having a normal life at all.

In some places, it's a completely warped life out of all recognition of what most of us have, even worse than dysfunctional.

originally posted by: DigginFoTroof

This is how police are treated in black communities

Its actually bigger than to just suggest "black communities". America is huge, the distance from Portland OR to Chicago is greater than London to Moscow, and we are tricked into thinking all is the same because we all speak English and every 7 miles you see a Walmart, Best Buy, McD etc., but we are very different around the country.

In many parts of the country even tensing your muscles while being apprehended could get you arrested for resisting, but here we see everyone in on the attack well beyond what would get everyone quickly arrested in other places. Its all about culture and in many low income communities that culture is not good. It is a festering madness of very poor people without even a small desire to get ahead in life in anyway. Crappy subsistence living works for them even when that style of living is about the worst we have. To many in these areas the easy extra buck is all they want and that takes the form of preying on other poor and crime. Entertainment is sex and drugs mostly since sex is free and drugs take them to other places. Dysfunctional is the norm so it becomes a never ending cycle of bad people that unfortunately is a mainstay in many black communities and even though it is across many other communities it seems the black communities take it to new heights.

originally posted by: spacedoubt
Congratulations on your fixation.
What is your solution?
Be honest.

A big problem is the support for this false narrative in the first place. If more people realized what the OP is talking about, more people would talk about it and we'd be more likely to find real solutions. Instead, very few people even know these facts and if you try to point them out in some circles you'll be called racist or it'll be claimed that you don't care about middle class white kids getting shot in schools. Try being a pundit and going on CNN during a gun violence discussion and bringing these facts up and see what happens.

I've pointed out these facts on numerous threads, in particular ones regarding gun control.


I've stated before that America doesnt have a gun control problem, we have a fatherless black Male problem if you actually look at the data.

I'm a black Male. Anyone who is honest and logical know this data to be true. The problem is our liberal society doesnt actually want to solve the problem so they choose to ignore the facts.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Exactly.

I looked up "mass shooting" and the first thing I found, wikipedia, was that "There is no widely accepted definition of the term mass shooting."

That it was once the murder of 4 people and in 2013 it shifted to 3 (not including the perp).

Seems like OP took the widest covering definition to make their argument. It works, but there is that caveat.

Also, I'm a little suspicious of their extrapolation-fu. The site linked throws all kind of stats without being very specific and the link was busted so who knows what OP was looking at.

a reply to: Edumakated

Ok then chicken and the egg question. The black community didn't start with the fatherless problem so it's clearly not what caused things to get this way. It might help keep the problem going but it didn't and thus isn't the cause.

So the big question is, what created this problem in the first place? It was neither slavery or Jim Crow laws as there were full black families that stuck together after slavery and during Jim Crow. I could be wrong but historically speaking the fatherless issue is more recent than all that.

What got the ball rolling. The black community didn't just wake up fatherless one day.

originally posted by: Puppylove

What got the ball rolling. The black community didn't just wake up fatherless one day.

Easy path to subsistence living, drugs, gangs, poor schools in their area, bad cultural attitudes, life paths slowly limited over the years...

a reply to: Xtrozero

So why are none of those things being focused on and instead all of you pitting all the blame on single parent households.

As I keep saying it's more complicated and more nuanced than that.

It's a multifaceted issue of which the single parent household is only one factor. In fact there are many things that help create the single parent household issue.

It's one symptom of many and you can't fix a problem by focussing on a single symptom.

Not saying it isn't a major issue but you'd get the same problems from a full household that's dysfunctional regardless of there being two parents.

It doesn't matter if there is a male role model if it's a bad one.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Exactly.

I looked up "mass shooting" and the first thing I found, wikipedia, was that "There is no widely accepted definition of the term mass shooting."

That it was once the murder of 4 people and in 2013 it shifted to 3 (not including the perp).

Seems like OP took the widest covering definition to make their argument. It works, but there is that caveat.

Also, I'm a little suspicious of their extrapolation-fu. The site linked throws all kind of stats without being very specific and the link was busted so who knows what OP was looking at.

Mass shooting is most likely the wrong words to use since mass shootings tend to mean multiple shootings from one person.
This is why 25 people killed in Chicago over a weekend goes un-noticed since it wasn't one or two people doing it as much as large groups.
So what is worst in the long run single crazies that mass kill now and then, or a culture that sees shooting people as a norm every weekend?

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Xtrozero

So why are none of those things being focused on and instead all of you pitting all the blame on single parent households.

As I keep saying it's more complicated and more nuanced than that.

Single parent is just an effect not so much the cause, but an effect that magnifies the initial problems.

a reply to: Xtrozero

As is almost everything else I've mentioned.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
So what is worst in the long run single crazies that mass kill now and then, or a culture that sees shooting people as a norm every weekend?

The post that started this back and forth wasn't asking about which is worst, it just asked what was actually being discussed because in reality the media doesn't care, because people don't care, if criminals are killing each other.

The only time it matters is when a stray bullet hits an innocent bystander and then you have media coverage and people caring.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Why do you think I used the word cultural? It is a cultural decay. It's just that the cultural decay is more advanced in some communities than in others. We see certain ethnic groups predominate in those cultural communities, but it isn't exclusive to them. That cultural rot affects all ethnic groups equally once it gets its hooks in.

My sister married into it. To give credit where it's due, my brother-in-law is somewhat trying to leave that behind, but he carried the markers and some behaviors don't leave. They're caught in a sort of no-man's land. In order to maintain what they have, they have to more or less leave his family behind, but they don't fit well with the rest of our family either. It's hard.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Edumakated

Ok then chicken and the egg question. The black community didn't start with the fatherless problem so it's clearly not what caused things to get this way. It might help keep the problem going but it didn't and thus isn't the cause.

So the big question is, what created this problem in the first place? It was neither slavery or Jim Crow laws as there were full black families that stuck together after slavery and during Jim Crow. I could be wrong but historically speaking the fatherless issue is more recent than all that.

What got the ball rolling. The black community didn't just wake up fatherless one day.

No, it wasn't slavery or Jim Crow.

Most attribute it to LBJ's War on Poverty. The cultural dysfunction discussed didn't really rear it's head in the black community until the 70s. By in large, the black community had similar marriage rates, crime, etc as the white community. Poverty has always been an issue for obvious reasons since blacks were largely locked out of the work force up until the 70s.

The welfare system encourages single mother hood whereas prior to being able to receive benefits, men were encouraged to get married if they knocked up their girlfriend. However, once welfare benefits were tied to the mother being single, people made the logical choice to not get married.

To further complicate matters, integration actually played a part as well. It used to be that black communities had pretty diverse demographics income wise because of segregation. As a result, teachers, doctors, lawyers, and other professionals typically lived along side the lower incomes. This was beneficial because it gave everyone in the community role models and so forth emulate.

As integration gained steam, many of the educated and middle/upper income blacks started leaving the community to go live with white folks of similar incomes. This had the effect of removing the positive influences in the community and leaving behind a concentration of poverty and cultural dsyfunction that feeds on itself.

The dangers of single motherhood were warned about 50+ years ago when Senator Daniel Moynihan (who was a trained sociologist) wrote his ground breaking study pointing out that rising single motherhood would cause societal issues. At that time, the black out of wedlock birth rate was only around 20%! It is now approaching 75%!

Other scholars have written about this as well. Controversial author of the Bell Curve, Charles Murray wrote a study in which he looks at the same pathologies afflicting the black community within the white community. That book/study is called "Coming Apart".

All one has to do is look out the out of wedlock birth rates in different ethnic groups compared to their relative success as groups.

Asians. They have the lowest out of wedlock birth rates but are the most successful ethnic group by most measures.
Whites. About 30% of whites are born out of wedlock.
Hispanics. About 50% of hispanics are born out of wedlock.
Blacks. 73% of black are born out of wedlock.

The bottom line is that even if you ignore race and just look at single mothers, the kids are very likely to grow up a screw up. When you have entire community where 3 out of 4 homes don't have a father, it is not mystery why things are going off the rails.

originally posted by: AScrubWhoDied
So when we say "mass shootings" , we talking about gang violence or just strolling into a movie theater or school and killing a bunch of random people just because "I had a bad day"?

Edit: oh wait, just read. This is another "poor us white people " thread.

What's the difference?

a reply to: spacedoubt
“Fixation?” It’s an important and stunning revelation of reality in our nation, but you think it’s racist to even mention it. You’d rather live in ignorant bliss than learn something so contrary to leftist dogma (white men are the root of all evil, black folks are innocent victims).

As for a solution, there is none short of removing every black person from the country and stopping any more from entering. I don’t know if it’s cultural, genetics or a combination, but violence and lawlessness are far more common among black Americans and it can’t be denied.

The most recent FBI uniform crime report shows blacks were arrested for more than 50 percent of all homicides. The rate is even worse for black juveniles, who account for 58 percent of all juvenile homicide arrests, and 67 percent of all juvenile robbery arrests. I’m not making this up, it’s public record and can be found on the FBI website.

From the Wikipedia article on race and crime in the United States: “There were a total of 603,000 emergency department visits in the US for non-fatal firearm assaults in the 10 year period between 2007-2016. For non-fatal firearm assaults with recorded race, 77,000 victims were white non-Hispanic, 261,000 were black ...” So more than 43 percent of non-fatal firearm victims from 2007-2016 were black, and I’ll bet less than 1 percent were shot by white cops or other white men.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Edumakated

Ok then chicken and the egg question. The black community didn't start with the fatherless problem so it's clearly not what caused things to get this way. It might help keep the problem going but it didn't and thus isn't the cause.

So the big question is, what created this problem in the first place? It was neither slavery or Jim Crow laws as there were full black families that stuck together after slavery and during Jim Crow. I could be wrong but historically speaking the fatherless issue is more recent than all that.

What got the ball rolling. The black community didn't just wake up fatherless one day.

No, it wasn't slavery or Jim Crow.

Most attribute it to LBJ's War on Poverty. The cultural dysfunction discussed didn't really rear it's head in the black community until the 70s. By in large, the black community had similar marriage rates, crime, etc as the white community. Poverty has always been an issue for obvious reasons since blacks were largely locked out of the work force up until the 70s.

The welfare system encourages single mother hood whereas prior to being able to receive benefits, men were encouraged to get married if they knocked up their girlfriend. However, once welfare benefits were tied to the mother being single, people made the logical choice to not get married.

To further complicate matters, integration actually played a part as well. It used to be that black communities had pretty diverse demographics income wise because of segregation. As a result, teachers, doctors, lawyers, and other professionals typically lived along side the lower incomes. This was beneficial because it gave everyone in the community role models and so forth emulate.

As integration gained steam, many of the educated and middle/upper income blacks started leaving the community to go live with white folks of similar incomes. This had the effect of removing the positive influences in the community and leaving behind a concentration of poverty and cultural dsyfunction that feeds on itself.

The dangers of single motherhood were warned about 50+ years ago when Senator Daniel Moynihan (who was a trained sociologist) wrote his ground breaking study pointing out that rising single motherhood would cause societal issues. At that time, the black out of wedlock birth rate was only around 20%! It is not approaching 75%!

Other scholars have written about this as well. Controversial author of the Bell Curve, Charles Murray wrote a study in which he looks at the same pathologies afflicting the black community within the white community. That book/study is called "Coming Apart".

All one has to do is look out the out of wedlock birth rates in different ethnic groups compared to their relative success as groups.

Asians. They have the lowest out of wedlock birth rates but are the most successful ethnic group by most measures.
Whites. About 30% of whites are born out of wedlock.
Hispanics. About 50% of hispanics are born out of wedlock.
Blacks. 73% of black are born out of wedlock.

The bottom line is that even if you ignore race and just look at single mothers, the kids are very likely to grow up a screw up. When you have entire community where 3 out of 4 homes don't have a father, it is not mystery why things are going off the rails.

This should be pinned at the top of every thread discussing cultural issues.