Brexit, Today is the Vote!

originally posted by: ipsedixit
a reply to: UKTruth

My understanding is that Labour were "whipped" to vote against it or abstain. They have said that they would back a second referendum down the road if necessary.

They whipped to abstain.

Their official position seems to be that they didn't support it because it didn't explore all other possibilities. I think for Labour they want to at the very least present it as a last resort. They have a problem, Corbyn is a Brexit supporter historically and they have quite a few consistencies were Leave won the vote.

a reply to: UKTruth

The Whips have not been absolutely in control of things, even among the Conservatives.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: ipsedixit

I'd say it's a term used by those who want to remain in the Union and can't accept the democratic decision of the people of the UK , the term is used to instill fear.

I no longer see any chance of a meaningful Brexit , Remainers have shot our Fox.

Its striking how different sides view this.

I am a remainer, personally I think that a no-deal Brexit is still much more likely than a second referendum.

originally posted by: ipsedixit
a reply to: UKTruth

The Whips have not been absolutely in control of things, even among the Conservatives.

Correct - 10 Conservatives voted for a 2nd referendum.
Overall, though the majority of the House voted against a 2nd Referendum today.

originally posted by: ipsedixit
a reply to: UKTruth

I think you are right on this. Farage has even gone so far at to appeal to EU governments to veto an extension request. There are diverse interests who would be content with May's deal or a crash out. That is part of the reason for May to finesse the situation down to the very end.

At some point someone is going to say eff the Irish border and eff the backstop, let's get out of the EU and muddle onward.

Yes, Farage only has to successfully lobby a single EU member to vote against an extension and he torpedoes the extension - leaving a hard brexit as the reality on the 29th March.

Farage may well be the king maker right now.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

so leave means leave
not vote again to decide if you leave

the means of leaving may be complicated, there is no doubt about that
the ballot was not as complicated

I am surprised the time given was not enough to enable the will of the people to be carried out
2 years wasn't it

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

A no deal Brexit isn't in the interest of the EU plus Parliament ruled it out last week , the EU will be happy for an extension and the EU Parliament will tell its members not to oppose it because it's a step in the process of keeping the UK in the EU.

As a remainer you should be happy , if there is to be a Brexit it will be in name only and we will still be bound by the EU.

Of course I could be wrong but I sincerely doubt I am.

Hotel California.

a reply to: UKTruth

I suspect that May would not be that disappointed if the extension were vetoed. It would give her leverage against Labour and might enable her to outmaneuver the ERG and the DUP.

She could say, "It's my deal or "no deal"."

a reply to: ipsedixit

The people were given a vote and the result should stand. Those of us in Scotland who voted to leave the UK accepted the result although I have no doubt if we had won then we would be facing the same disgraceful shenanigans.

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

so leave means leave
not vote again to decide if you leave

the means of leaving may be complicated, there is no doubt about that
the ballot was not as complicated

I am surprised the time given was not enough to enable the will of the people to be carried out
2 years wasn't it

It's been complicated with the politcal maneuvering of dishonest people trying to gain more power, a media who has been pushing fear and propaganda and well groups who were on th losing side, well funded by foreign entities, lobbying and lying on a daily basis.

I agree, though, the idiot May should have had this sorted by now.

originally posted by: ipsedixit
a reply to: UKTruth

I suspect that May would not be that disappointed if the extension were vetoed. It would give her leverage against Labour and might enable her to outmaneuver the ERG and the DUP.

She could say, "It's my deal or "no deal"."

We have to remember that Leaving with No Deal is the law on the 29th March - so at least the EU have some pressure on them... however, if Farage works on getting 1 EU member to veto an extension, then no deal it is.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

A no deal Brexit isn't in the interest of the EU plus Parliament ruled it out last week , the EU will be happy for an extension and the EU Parliament will tell its members not to oppose it because it's a step in the process of keeping the UK in the EU.

AND the billions of cash It was said today They would extend the time

limit.....BUT there would be a financial cost ......who would have thought that

the EU could be so mercenary?

if there is to be a Brexit it will be in name only and we will still be bound by the EU.
Of course I could be wrong but I sincerely doubt I am.
Hotel California.

Yea sign in but never leave. A black hole called the EU.

This is kind of off the subject in a way, but if Britain wound up somehow staying in the EU, how many would consider that a victory for Hitler?

Don't be shy.

a reply to: ipsedixit

Hitler died in 1945.

originally posted by: ipsedixit
This is kind of off the subject in a way, but if Britain wound up somehow staying in the EU, how many would consider that a victory for Hitler?

Don't be shy.

I'd consider it a victory for the EU , Hitler bears no relevance.

There has been some "fight them on the beaches" sort of rhetoric in the thread. maybe I should have broadened the question by saying Hitler or Germany.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

a reply to: ipsedixit

We are a small Nation trying to break free from a Super State in which we have little influence , any "fight them on the beaches" rhetoric is probably due to that , Germany and France are singled out because they are the driving force behind the EU.

a reply to: gortex

Fair enough. I think Brexit is a bad idea, but I think that almost everyone agrees that there is room for improvement in the EU. I hate to say it but part of me would actually enjoy the spectacle of a "no deal" Brexit, but my better part thinks that unfortunately it would be the most undeserving who would suffer from it.

Jesus the people voted to leave, let it be.