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Young Earth VS Old Earth and a Third point of view - the Creation Truth?

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posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 12:22 AM
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Young Earth (YE) proponents argue:

"The Bible says, God created the earth in 6 days and since each day is 1000 years, therefore, the earth is 6000 years old."

On the other hand, Old Earth (OE) proponents say:

"According to geology - through radiometric dating of the strata, the earth is around 4.5 billion years old."

They cite many references proving the claim.

So, who's right?

Who has the Truth?

For sure, each will claim the mantle of truth. And as long as no one is going to consider the other’s point of view, it would seem pointless to have an intelligent discussion. But guess what, all is not lost. If you’re an open minded person, there’s a THIRD POV that is able to reconcile the two opposing views - YE vs OE. This is the 3POV I call “CT” (Creation Truth).


To begin, we need to first understand the context when the word “day” is used in the Bible. Next know how the word “day” relates to the stages of creation.

So when it says "day" as in "...the first day... the second day... the sixth day", it's not talking about a literal 24 hr day but a creative "day" - a period of time for creating things.

This can be ascertained by reading the first and second chapters of Genesis.

For example, in the same chapter, "light" was called "Day". And the entire six days - as "day" - "...the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens."


[Gen 1:5 KJV] 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.



[Gen 2:4 KJV] 4 These [are] the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,


Interestingly, when it says “first...second...third...sixth day” it’s always preceded by a "night/evening and morning" at the end of each creative “day”.



The creative "day" can also be understood by the expression, "in the day of our forefathers", "in my day" or “D-day”, etc.

So a creative "day" in Genesis is not only referring to a literal 24 hr day but a period of time.

As for the "day" = 1000 years, it has nothing to do with the creative "day" (mentioned in Genesis) but has something to do with a prophetic day. The Bible mentions this 1000 years as a “day” this way:


[2Pe 3:8-9 KJV] 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


In addition, if we say each creative "day" is equal to 1000 years, how old mankind will be then when Adam and Eve were created at the end of the "sixth day"? Less than 1000 years? If so, it won't make sense and furthermore, will not reconcile with geological findings or even with the oldest written historical records.

With these points in mind, the 6000-year-old earth is not a viable explanation - sorry Young Earthers.

A 10,000 year would make more sense, but it too comes in complete contradiction with geologic findings.

The only way to make this work is to go back to what Genesis said from the very beginning.

So, when Genesis 1:1 says:


[Gen 1:1 ESV] 1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.


… it’s simply stating the fact, that the creation of “the heavens and the earth” already took place before v2 commences. When? It doesn’t say as no time was given. It could be millions or even billions of years ago.

In fact, if we align the Biblical account with geologic findings, a 4.5 billion years old earth will not conflict with Genesis 1:1. They reconcile.

But what about man? How can we reconcile man’s existence with the Genesis account, and with secular historical records?

Again, from the Biblical perspective:

When Genesis 1:2 says...


[Gen 1:2 ESV] 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.


...it is specifically saying the earth was already there, in existence, but “without form and void”- formless - hence unhabitable. And as the narrative goes, the time came (for the formless earth) to be inhabited. So what does God do? He sends His holy spirit (his active force) to commence the preparation of the earth for habitation. For the next six “creative days”, God proceeds to create things and transform the earth. It took “six days” to complete the task and at the close of the “sixth-day”, man (Adam and Eve) was created.

As we continue reading Genesis 1:3-28, it lays out the creation in stages.

But going back to Adam and Eve, since they were created at the closing of the “sixth day” of creation, we can now pinpoint the age of man by calculating the ages of the people mentioned therein.

If from present to first-century C.E = 2018 years (1-2019).
Then...
From first century C.E. counting back to Noah’s time - 2370 BCE.
From Noah to Adam - 4026 B.C.E.

(Note:
Genesis 11:10 to 12:4 gives a total of 427 years if we add the ages of the persons listed therein. Genesis 5:3-29 and Ge 7:6, 11 gives 1656 years)

Looking at the above, this puts man’s age at 5000 - 6000 years, which perfectly align with secular evidence.


From Archeological Timelines: around 4000 B.C.E. was the estimated date of the oldest document found.

www.ancient.eu...

"The earliest records we have of human history go back only about 5,000 years."—*World Book Encyclopedia, 1966 edition, Vol. 6, p. 12.


The 4th millennium BC spanned the years 4000 through 3001 BC. Some of the major changes in human culture during this time included the beginning of the Bronze Age and the invention of writing, which played a major role in starting recorded history.


en.wikipedia.org...

So putting all this together, using geology (if correct), archeology and the book of Genesis, we have the age of the earth to be around 4.5 billion years old and mankind to be around 5000-6000 years old.


There you go. The third option that reconciles the two opposing worldviews.


.....

Side Notes:




posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 12:23 AM
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Side note:

According to Biblical Chronology and Prophecy, man was created at the end of the “sixth day” and then God “rested” (or desisted from creating). After that, the “seventh day” began, and from that day forward, Adam’s offspring continued to live down to the present time. But there’s still a 1000 year remaining for the “seventh day” to end. So it makes sense to conclude that man was indeed created about 5000-6000 years ago.


BTW, the 1000 year is reserved for Jesus’ kingship along with his resurrected heavenly brothers - 144,000.

To them he said:

[Jhn 14:2-3 ESV] 2 In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.

[Heb 3:1 ESV] 1 Therefore, holy brothers, you who share in a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession,

[Rev 20:5-6 ESV] 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

[Rev 7:3 ESV] 3 saying, "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads."

[Rev 7:4 ESV] 4 And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:

This also brings up an interesting point. That is, if mankind is about 6000 years and there are 1000 years left to complete the “seventh day”, then this makes each “creative day” 7000 years. So IF this timeline is consistent throughout the entire creative days, each “day” then corresponds to 7000 years. 7000 years x 6 = 42,000 years it took to make the earth into a habitable place.

Ciao.



posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 12:51 AM
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a reply to: edmc^2

Personally I see no conflict, those that need the earth to be 6000 years old to believe in God need more faith, those that use the geological aging data to deny creationism need to look at the fact the whole universe is a mystery and that the whole point of science is to try to understand that - in essence to MEET GOD so in effect they are morally corrupt in claiming there is no God and trying to use science to prove that for themselves which is like using a road to prove there is no destination?.

Ecclesiastes 1:9

All things are wearisome, more than one can describe; the eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear content with hearing. What has been is what will be, and what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.
Is there a case where one can say, “Look, this is new”? It has already existed in the ages before us.

So in essence the PLANET may actually be home to MANY earths, earths before our own and earths after our own were our earth - our world is therefore bordered by time.

But even if there were not then you have to ask yourself since you are like a fly in amber within TIME and God is outside of TIME so what is a day to God, if a thousand years are as a day then how long is a year to God?.

But this is about two faith's, those that believe in God and those that believe in the opinion's and observations of men we creatures whom are so blind to the real universe that we have to construct convoluted theory's to try to see what is beyond our ability to see.



posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 01:01 AM
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a reply to: edmc^2

1 million billion or 6000 years, the evidence for evolution is sadly lacking

Where are the bones of a million billion years or whatever "they" say it is

Why is the moon where it is?



posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 01:24 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman

There is an ongoing argument between an evolutionist by the name of Kuban and some creationists whom discovered evidence of human's walking alongside dinosaur's, this is just one page which is a response to a posting by Kuban elsewhere denying that he was there with an Iron Bar.
www.bible.ca...
www.footprintsinstone.com...

Of course IF these were human footprint's and they look to definitely be just that made in the same layer as dinosaur footprint's when that stone was mud then it proves that either there were human being's or something the same size, weight and gait as us at the time of the dinosaurs OR that the dating applied to this rock AND the age of the dinosaur's is drastically over estimated perhaps as part of a self perpetuating agenda to lie about the truth of our creation.
Also there is plenty of evidence of rapid fossilization elsewhere in the world and soft tissue from a dinosaur has been found?.

Of course this took time but eventually they concocted an explanation to fit with there own theory's (And this was the scientist whom discovered it).
www.livescience.com...

Of course there is a science which could explain all of this, even cause dating to be unreliable and the seemingly fixed law's of the universe which are the lynch pin of so many scientific theory's to become fluid and changeable since the birth of the universe meaning that some of those law's such as the speed of light and the rate of radioactive decay may not remain the same and this is Quantum theory but it is only a stopgap and another model to try to explain it all away as a natural structure - though quite a few top level quantum scientists have BECOME religious as a result of there own realization's.



posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 01:30 AM
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a reply to: edmc^2

Here's another third option where both evolution and the Bible are absolutely true. An omnipotent God does not have any limitations are definition of omnipotence. Therefore, and omnipotent God can create the Universe in any amount of time including all the fake fossil and carbon dating evidence. So both it's all true once you accept our omnipotent God is capable of any possibility.



posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 02:19 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

He faked it, that sounds pretty silly



posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 03:20 AM
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a reply to: edmc^2

Most interpretations of Gen 1 assume a young earth, but the Genesis gap theory inserts an unknown period of time between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2, thus providing time for the creation of the angels, their fall, and rebel against God. That would mean that the 6 days are more days of restoration than initial creation. So perhaps the world is billions of years old. We also don't know how long Adam lived in Eden before the Fall, but human (post-fall) civilization is only 6,125 years old.

I believe in miracles. Since quantum mechanics is probabilistic, rather than deterministic, science does not rule out the occurrence of miracles, it just deems them improbable. I don't think things had to happen the way Bill Nye said they did, and I think most Christians misinterpret Genesis 1; so I do believe the 7 days were 7 solar days (assuming each day lasted 24 hours).



posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 06:37 AM
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Considering the literal interpretation of creation is a new thing, pretty sure people starting with the Jews by vast majority thought of genesis as allegory.



posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 07:15 AM
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I'm sorry, but the bible is a not a reliable source of information. It's a book of religious propaganda that has been revised so much that we have no idea what it originally said (it steals from other holy books, thinks that pi = 3, gets basic history wrong, exaggerates the size of Solomon's kingdom, leaves out major powers, had been pruned of embarrassing information, etc etc).
I really wouldn't use the word 'truth' around it.



posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 07:38 AM
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The Bible Doesn't Support a 6,000 Year Old Creation.

Read the following biblical passages concerning how God experiences time vs how man does. Keep in mind, that everywhere this is quoted, God never says his experienced day "is" exactly the same as a human's 1,000 years, but instead said "is like", "as good as" or "shall be as".

2 Peter 3:8 ". . . A day is like a thousand years to the Lord, and a thousand years is like a day. With God, one day is as good as a thousand years, a thousand years as a day."

Barnabas 15:4 " . . . Behold, the day of the Lord shall be as a thousand years."

The following passages (2 translations) clearly shows that man's day is incredibly short compared to God's and uses ever smaller units of time to emphasize that. Note here that a watch was actually 4 hours in duration.

Psalm 90

4 - but a thousand years mean nothing to you! They are merely a day gone by or a few hours in the night.

4 For a thousand years in Thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, [N] and as a watch in the night.

It seems plain to me that this is saying that our human day is extremely small compared to God's day, but it doesn't commit to an exact comparison. However, a literal interpretation of 1,000 human years equals 4 of God's hours gives us the following estimate.

In this case a divine hour would be 250 human years, or a divine day of 6,000 human years, or a divine year equaling 2,190,000 for humans. With such a formula creation occurs over 36,000 years + 6,000 for the day of rest = 42,000 years. Now add to this the years since the bible was written plus the previous oral history. Dates go from 3,000 to 6,000 years ago, I'll choose a date of around 4,500 years giving us a age of creation around 46,500 human years.

However, if you were to apply the 7 divine days of creation to the currently held scientific age of the universe, around 14 billion years, then a day to God is somewhere in the realm of 2 billion years. Of course with God being an eternal, omnipotent being, I'd believe the first translation of Psalms given above that states a thousand human years means nothing to God.



posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 10:19 AM
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I'm getting some really strong Monty python vibes here



posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 12:01 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest




so I do believe the 7 days were 7 solar days (assuming each day lasted 24 hours).


Let's assume you're correct, how old is man then if Adam and Eve were created at the closing of the "sixth (24 hr) day"?



posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 12:03 PM
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a reply to: edmc^2

I don't know how long man has been inside Eden, I only know that it has been 6,125 years since Adam and Eve were kicked out of Eden.


edit on 21-11-2018 by BELIEVERpriest because: typo



posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 12:07 PM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: edmc^2

Here's another third option where both evolution and the Bible are absolutely true. An omnipotent God does not have any limitations are definition of omnipotence. Therefore, and omnipotent God can create the Universe in any amount of time including all the fake fossil and carbon dating evidence. So both it's all true once you accept our omnipotent God is capable of any possibility.


Yes and of course if God lives in his own dimension, our dimension being created outside of himself then our reckoning of time therefore has absolutely no correlation to his reckoning of time if his dimension even has time, that is why he is the same in the future and the past and today and is unchanged and why he work's from the perfect end of his creation back to it's beginning so like a potter whom already has the pot formed but is making it so that it conform's to the perfect shape he has already decided it shall be, our perspective is only during the forming process while the clay is still flying so to speak.



posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 12:23 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Hey man did not die while in Eden they did not age.
So you make a great point, could Eden be a pocket reality outside of the normal flow of time?.

Also time in Eden is what the bible is recording, man did not know mortality till he was exiled.

edit on 21-11-2018 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 12:34 PM
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a reply to: LABTECH767

I suppose its possible, but I think it would be a bit unnecessary. Man was kicked out of Eden so that they could not eat from the tree of life after eating from the Knowledge of Good and Evil. It seems that the source of Adam's life in Eden was the tree of life.



posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 12:38 PM
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a reply to: AngryCymraeg

I assume you've watched too many vids made by people purporting to be experts or read stuff made by people who really had no idea what they are talking about.

For instance, you've used the much maligned uber inaccurate pi = 3 as an example?

That one is really a head-scratcher.

BTW, have you heard of the term "approximation"? Probably not.

But if you're interested, here's an explanation - with calculations.

www.purplemath.com...


edit on 21-11-2018 by edmc^2 because: add reply post



posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 12:47 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

To Know something you MUST experience it, the serpent in the garden deceived them they were already in paradise but you must also recognize that God already knew this was going to happen so everything was and is for a purpose, to know death they must experience it that is the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil they had known good but since they did not know evil and did not understand it they were oblivious to the it in the serpent and were more mischievous and disobedient than evil in there own action's which he tricked them into.

If they had then eaten the fruit of the tree of life they would have turned the whole garden corrupt and while there was already evil there in the fruit they took a bit of and in the serpent it was stable and balanced.

Both eternal life and eternal death would have taken hold and warred out of balance there so it could not have survived meaning God would have had to destroy the whole Garden or recreate it and so as was meant to happen they were sent into the world which is were they were always meant to be going anyway, there day's numbered and bitter with mortal death there companion at the end until the Christ came.

The body is still condemned to death but the spirit - God is a spirit - that was blown into there nostril's he has redeemed by his own Blood and in the resurrection that redeemed spirit will be like the angel's with new celestial body's which is were they were always going, this world is a passage and Christ is the way.



posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 12:50 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Right there gives a clue of the age of man: 6,125 years had passed.

Consider also, they were created at the end of the creative "sixth day", then got kicked out of the garden. After that, the "seventh day". So if you think about it, they continued living their lives for a very short time (125 years and counting) at the end of the "sixth day" then the rest on the "seventh day" - where we're now at: 6,125 years later.

So with this information, we can see that the "seventh day" is 7000 years. That is 6000 + the remaining 1000 years for Christ to reign as King.

edit on 21-11-2018 by edmc^2 because: (no reason given)




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