How do you think PROOF of ET Civilization will manifest, if at all?

a reply to: MissSmartypants

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

The Fermi Paradox would suggest that any sufficiently advanced Alien Civilization would or should already be here in one form or another.

You might want to read this, instead.
blogs.scientificamerican.com...

As for the paradox, there is none, even in Hart’s and Tipler’s arguments. There is no logical contradiction between the statement “E.T. might exist elsewhere” and the statement “E.T. is not here” because nobody knows that travel between the stars is possible in the first place.

If the formation of the moon was by ID

If my uncle was a woman he would be my aunt.

a reply to: Phage

Read it. Thanks.

Doesn't refute the concept though.

One resolution could involve a search for a localized manifestation that indeed they are or were here, whereby we ourselves and the causation of our own evolution could represent an artifact, whether looking at the Earth-Moon-Sun configuration or the formation and content of our own DNA.

Imagine finding an unequivocal remnant of an advanced alien Civilization in our DNA? or at Antarctica or the far side of the moon.

This would then resolve at last part of the question of - where are they?

Then again, as someone points out in that article, maybe interstellar travel simply isn't possible or not worth it..

This idea however would not exclude the possibility of the propagation and bifurcation of Von Neumann Probes even travelling at sub-light speeds.

I mentioned earlier the Galactic Blazer of Cygnus X3, facilitating an accelerated evolution of life on Earth. It should be noted that there's only one such object considered to exist in our own galaxy. Just one.

In other words, it could very well be that it isn't fair to assume much more than one Earth-like world in any given Galaxy housing the kind of stable, and sped up evolution that we have on Earth ie: that could give rise to an advanced ET Civilization in our own galaxy - and where the distance between another Galaxy that would contain an Earth-analogue with evolved ET Civilization would be by far too far to travel at sub-light speed even for an autonomous Von Neumann Probe or self-replicating interstellar machine.

I think when the human species as a whole or majority can stop; discriminating against each other over simple variances of skin tone and the heritages that spawned them over the course of time... and using ideology as a weapon to feel free to be able do so as if that was a license?

Then yeah the barrier or veil will come down...

It does already as far as individuals or certain communities go where that is concerned.

When contact however occurs to an individual? It's typically a confusing situation; because the contact in those that are attached to feeling they need an explanation for something and or rationalize whatever it is to another to be a valid or real experience... is the individual hurdle.

The eye can have an experience without the "thinking mind" involved... as it's real function is to do one thing and one thing only SEE. When the mind gets involved with that? Seeing has in it's true essence or pure form? Has ceased to occur.

The sad thing is due to that and the ignorance of preconceived notions? A lot of the magic and other beings of this world has been lost... or more accurately? Gone into hiding due to such mass delusion as that.

What we call knowledge often is not knowledge at all; just a label to discriminate one thing from another. Whether accurately or not? Such a label sticks... how long that label sticks? Well in an individual... it can be gone in an instant or at least unlearned as a mental reflex.

That's exactly what meditation can do... restore the eye to see without mind getting entangles in what it sees.

First time I saw what gets termed as a "ghost" totally non expected and no way was such a phenomena real... so a combination of surprise and scared occurred.

Of course hey; that word "ghost" like the word "alien" is like a racial slur if one really stops to think about it... so grasping at such an experience with mind as "name" goes can make or become cause for such phenomenon; to shy away or feel unwelcome by yet another that just doesn't understand or care too based on that herd or hive mentality to say ghost or alien... instead of possible friend and perhaps a friend much better than one has ever had or could I mean do you have to run to a stranger and say "No man, I swear my friend Alex is real..." of course not, and it is even stupid to suggest such a thing as "proof" etc goes... so it becomes a real shame, as individual goes.

My advice for those interested in such contact? Take what was said into the utmost in consideration... let the eye just see or do it's job, and hold a gentle smile... if the "mind" wants to grasp or ideas arise that desires another needs to know? No they don't... the "visitor" knows and so do you; isn't that enough?

Like all budding friendships? Trust is important; and since "humanity" has discriminated much into closets and hiding and folklore etc and damned whatever it is for hundreds of years? Makes it that much harder to bridge the gap and form some trust... that like no it's cool, we can hang don't worry about it.

Life in my experience takes many forms... not just the "known" sort; or yet to be "discovered" sort, as much of the "unseen" is just as plentiful as the "seen" and they can become just as attached or love you or care about you as anyone else and in some cases if not more so.

Such a thing being difficult individually? En-mass... even more difficult. So my advice is; go individual and dont talk about it in a let it be and enjoy it for what it is situation... the more people do that? The more such will open on a mass scale.

Reality is reality... it is not a belief. The belief is reality takes more than oneself to experience such a thing. NOPE. It does not even require words or language, as reality just is... continually arising and passing phenomena; grasped or not at varying degrees. The silly thing is saying the more phenomenon one has grasped is what they also call a "self" not only is that an illusion? To claim that as a self is delusion. Such as that may be good for conversation as past experience... but nothing before this moment in me or you; has such an existent self... bringing up that so called "self" as reality goes; is more accurately a corpse. Like known beings? There are what could be termed as "unknown beings" that do not really like or care for it either... like a cat or dog bringing a smelly old dead bird in the house.

Hope this helps bring you some clarity and things to think about and consider OP

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

Viruses are already here.
Bacteria, and Spores as well.

Lichen is an interesting symbiotic
relationship between algae and fungi.

Just check the aerogel samples.

SAVVY? This is what some of them look like : www.reddit.com...

Go Check it out: www.youtube.com...

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

Imagine finding an unequivocal remnant of an advanced alien Civilization in our DNA? or at Antarctica or the far side of the moon.

What do alien genes look like?

Sure, that would be cool. I think it's far more likely that we'll detect a signal. From someone far removed in space, and probably time.

(Wait. I already said that.)

I hope we do. That would be cool.

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

I'll be thrilled enough if the James Webb identifies signs of industry in some exoplanet's atmosphere. Ideally a planet/moon many, many light years away and at iron age levels rather than something relatively local and way more advanced. That's not to say I expect an advanced world to be like the Borg or Banks' Idirans and be heading this way for evil lulz.

I think humanity will cope more easily knowing there's something like us out there before we ever discover something essentially Godlike in a Type II civ. Of course, we may spend millennia staring into silence and space will seem very cold indeed if we're utterly alone in this end of the universe.

All things are possible until they aren't.

a reply to: Kandinsky

I think removed in space (and time) may be a good thing.

when we find mushrooms on another planet

come on you cant look at a mushroom and really think its from earth lol

i dont think we have a clue what to look for so we are looking for ourselfs afterall thats what we want to find ... i really hope we never find anything out there like us

a reply to: markovian

Let me guess, you had a mushroom pizza for dinner?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: markovian

Let me guess, you had a mushroom pizza for dinner?

no no i have a no mushroom policy when they come back to earth i dont want to have to explain why i was eating there young lol

originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
a reply to: Phage

Plus if they're harnessed vacuum energy, then they wouldn't need solar energy and thus no Dyson Spheres..

Nuclear fission/fusion is vacuum energy. 96% of the mass of protons and neutrons doesn't come from the quarks themselves but the sub-atomic interaction with the exchange gluons. The change in mass due to fission or fusion is coming from the change in that gluon field. Something like 1 kg of Uranium undergoing fission is the equivalent of 15000+ railroad cars of coal.

Don't think it will happen. Because it already has...and we ignore 100's and 1,000's of years of evidence.

We aren't gonna get a text, snail or email, phone call, twit, insta-anything.....because it's here, they've been here, always were...and we're refusing to believe.

I personally believe some have no arms, legs, eyes, fly on ships that have lights, run on fuel or need rockets....because we are so young and naive...we refuse to believe what we can't or don't yet understand.

So don't count on a "disclosure" because none will come that would be believed by the whole world...because no 1 person or group represents the world.

We still have war. Realization and acceptance will be instantaneous and all at once. Why? Because "they/them" are already here and have been...so put down your "Welcome Aliens!" signs.

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

From "The Law of One"

Transfer from Mars
9.6 ▶ Questioner: The people that we now have— the first people, [inaudible] like us— where did they come from? How did they evolve?
Ra: I am Ra. You speak of third-density experience. The first of those to come here were brought from another planet in your solar system called by you the Red Planet, Mars. This planet’s environment became inhospitable to third-density beings. The first entities, therefore, were of this race, as you may call it, manipulated somewhat by those who were guardians at that time.

9.7 ▶ Questioner: What race is that, and how did they get from Mars to here?
Ra: I am Ra. The race is a combination of the mind/body/spirit complexes of those of your so-called Red Planet and a careful series of genetical adjustments made by the guardians of that time. These entities arrived, or were preserved, for the experience upon your sphere by a type of birthing which is non-reproductive, but consists of preparing genetic material for the incarnation of the mind/body/spirit complexes of those entities from the Red Planet.

9.8 ▶ Questioner: Then I’m assuming what you’re saying is that the guardians transferred the race here after the race had died from the physical as we know it on Mars. Is that correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

9.9 ▶ Questioner: The guardians obviously were acting with an understanding of the Law of One in doing this. Can you explain the application of the Law of One in this process?
Ra: I am Ra. The Law of One was named by these guardians as the bringing of the wisdom of the guardians in contact with the entities from the Red Planet, thus melding the social memory complex of the guardian race and the Red Planet race. It, however, took an increasing amount of distortion into the application of the Law of One from the viewpoint of other guardians and it is from this beginning action that the quarantine of this planet was instituted, for it was felt that the free will of those of the Red Planet had been abridged.

9.10 ▶ Questioner: Were the entities of the Red Planet following the Law of One prior to leaving the Red Planet?
Ra: The entities of the Red Planet were attempting to learn the Laws of Love which form one of the primal distortions of the Law of One. However, the tendencies of these people towards bellicose actions caused such difficulties in the atmospheric environment of their planet that it became inhospitable for third-density experience before the end of its cycle. Thus, the Red Planet entities were unharvested and continued in your illusion to attempt to learn the Law of Love.

9.11 ▶ Questioner: How long ago did this transfer occur from the Red Planet to Earth?
Ra: I am Ra. In your time this transfer occurred approximately seven five zero zero zero [75,000] years ago.

9.12 ▶ Questioner: 75,000 years ago?
Ra: I am Ra. This is approximately correct.

a reply to: Phage

Without FTL, which I don't expect to be easy.. each planet is a 'petri dish' of isolated evolution, or quite often no evolution at all. Evolution having no goal after all. More complex doesn't mean 'better' or 'desired'. It just means that more steps happened, due to changes in the environment and mutation.

You know this... i'm just orating this in response to your statement about separation... and I hope that others see that complex alien life is not 'supposed to happen' at all. It might happen. It might not happen at all. We don't know enough of the math of certain terms to say one way or the other, despite all the noise about wanting aliens.

What if the main life form in the Universe was a spore (even some known Earth spores can survive in space for longer periods) that traveled from planet to planet and ate brains and other complexity.

Would people still be screaming for aliens so much? I'ts always be careful what you ask for, when you have no idea whatsoever what you are asking for.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Some of the smartest people alive believe instead that there is one, interpenetrating cosmological unity or that the universe and life is a non-local, holographic phenomenon.

In this way, it's entirely conceivable that mankind and life on Earth being the most recent adaptation or the "new kid on the block" and a chip off the old old block, while perhaps the least advanced, technologically, may represent "the latest and greatest" in terms of the form & function or phylos ie: made to stand next to the Godhead and to contain nothing less than the fullness of the Spirit of the Living God which was exemplified and personified in our brother Jesus Christ.

Thus, however solipsistic it may appear, this is the place of all places where the great struggle between the forces of good and evil are most pronounced, while the rest of the universe is governed by an indomitable love including love of God and neighbor as self.

If we are under observation by offworld powers and principalities, it would be strange, and perhaps not a little embarrassing to think of mankind of an example of the apex of cosmic evolutionary history.

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

Some of the smartest people alive believe instead that there is one, interpenetrating cosmological unity or that the universe and life is a non-local, holographic phenomenon.

I could talk for hours on that subject. (I do in fact all over ATS).

But that's a different topic than what you posted about.

Kev

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

Some of the smartest people alive believe instead that there is one, interpenetrating cosmological unity or that the universe and life is a non-local, holographic phenomenon.

Well it's empirical isn't it? People report NDEs where the 'afterlife' looks pleasant and welcoming. A great many more report psychedelic experiences of a vast, timeless interconnected 'everything, forever' where good and evil do not exist and peacefulness does. In that perspective time is seen from a great distance and our moment is, figuratively, nought but a sparkle on a droplet of water on an ocean wave. We're like a split second in an almost infinity of seconds believing it's more special than the rest.

A particular group of scientists share the view in their own ways too. After all, we're all a part of the cosmos and very much made of the stars in the technical sense.

Take away the above and the majority of the planet's population have nothing but faith and hopes. This isn't a good/bad thing, but my point is we all experience life differently. You exist in a world where Jesus stands next to the Godhead, others live on Flat Earth, my world probably has no gods and so on. Even being right might not truly matter in the scheme of things. Placed against time, our beliefs matter only to ourselves and those around us in this fleeting split second.

This is one reason why I'd enjoy seeing evidence of life elsewhere. It'll be good to know we aren't the custodians of the only intelligent, technological life. The confirmation that life is babbling along elsewhere would be a hallelujah moment and a relief. I've waffled enough...

I think it coukd be like independence day. Everyone will come outside... and the sun will be darkened. Personally i think they could be are only hope for saving us.

It seems to me, that the burning, almost pathological (or pathological) desire for there to be biological aliens, springs from the desire for the human race to be 'saved' from our own folly. We have no idea whether biological aliens exist, we have no idea whether they would be advanced, or just bacteria, if they exist at all; we have no idea whether they would be technologically advanced, nor whether they would want to put us between two slices of alien bread and eat us, or 'help us'.

We have no idea.

But it certainly seems to me, that very few people care about simple alien life, or hostile alien life; they want the 'Enterprise' to show up and to 'save us'.

If one takes that desire out of the mix, then the discussion can become far more rational. It becomes a mass of 'we don't knows' and a 'it might not be good to be visited by advanced aliens, even if they exist'.

If you are familiar with Arthur C. Clarks "Childhood's End", you come to realize, that even 'good aliens' would wind up destroying what it means to be human, as if we are given all the answers, the struggle would be over, and it's the struggle that is the very thing which makes us human. Without the struggle, there is no evolution, no nobility.. we'd go extinct just like in the book/movie.

The best outcome for discovering that 'aliens exist' would be to get a radio signal from the other end of the Universe, along with the knowledge that we would never meet them, and that they would NOT answer any of our questions about anything.. then maybe humans might come together.. and stop destroying themselves.. and learn to work together. Even then, the mere knowledge that advanced aliens exist might wind up destroying us.

Kev