Gas explosions possible SCADA hack of gas company?

originally posted by: roadgravel
I too am wondering if part of the system was over pressured. I doubt the pressure is stepped down at each house. I could be an issue with one piece of equipment.

Or. . .

There was an intermittent leak so they over-pressured to compensate.

originally posted by: roadgravel
I too am wondering if part of the system was over pressured. I doubt the pressure is stepped down at each house. I could be an issue with one piece of equipment.

It isnt the pressure being stepped down, it's the size of the pipes and their burst pressure that I am thinking about.

The main would be the largest and have the highest burst pressure i would think. The pipes connecting to the houses would get ever smaller. If a high pressure hit suddenly that could burst the smaller pipes and not the main then i would think that would force this to happen....may even have forced the valves inside the house to burst or open.

Any gas lines guys know the pressures for all the pipes and the valves used and if a high pressure pop could feasibly burst any of these things?

Hint:

Every gas meter has a pressure regulator.

😎

doesn't surprise most of these manufacturing plants have all kinds of telemtry data being gathered so they can automate their process's and a lot of the computers they use to manage those systems are running unsecure versions of windows xp

not air gapped, pulling off a social engineering attack is a cake walk

Or what about the gas appliance regulators? Are they built to handle more pressure than the pipes delivering the gas?

As in if a high pressure pop came through, could it burst the appliance regulators allowing it to freely flow into the house at possibly more than one point?

a reply to: Vasa Croe

The smaller pipes are certainly not going to burst before the main line, the pressure regulators and the pressure valves though will certainly blow.

The valves particularly are a fail-safe to stop the pipes from bursting. I am 100% certain that is how the fires started.

originally posted by: efabian
a reply to: Vasa Croe

The smaller pipes are certainly not going to burst before the main line, the pressure regulators and the pressure valves though will certainly blow.

The valves particularly are a fail-safe to stop the pipes from bursting.

As in the appliance regulators would blow?

a reply to: Vasa Croe
A valve within the appliance will blow so the pipes and the appliance it-self would not get damaged.

When these valves blow, all the gas would freely disperse through the house. (Imagine a pressure cooker valve)
After reading a few reports of fires breaking in basements I would guess there is a fail-safe valve in the initial connection that enters the house.

originally posted by: xuenchen
Hint:

Every gas meter has a pressure regulator.

😎

No.

This seems to be a low pressure delivery system with no regulators at the houses, just meters.

Not something I want hooked up to anywhere I live.

originally posted by: efabian
a reply to: Vasa Croe
A valve within the appliance will blow so the pipes and the appliance it-self would not get damaged.

Would that allow for gas to freely flow into the house then?

a reply to: Vasa Croe

Yes, read my edit in the last comment.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

Wondering if this is a "test" to see the type of damage that can be done?

This is going to sound bizarre but, I’ll say it anyway. A friend of mine works with a member of the religion of peace, who inexplicably is taking next week (the entire week) off. It’s very weird because they work in a school where the year has just begun and this person is new to her position - and it’s a pretty senior position. The person will not tell anyone WHY she needs off and is willing to be docked pay. Just throwing it out there because it made my tin foil hat radioactive. P.S. you will be safe in Michigan.

a reply to: toysforadults

Air gapping is less effective than you think it is, in fact it's not effective and only a good idea in theory and not practice. This is literally the number one myth in DCS and SCADA security. If you air gap your DCS/SCADA systems you are contributing to the problem, not preventing it.

originally posted by: efabian
a reply to: Vasa Croe

Yes, read my edit in the last comment.

Got it...thanks!

I work for TransCanada Pipeline for ten year

Work on 2"" at 100 Psi to 48" at 1000 Psi

Something not right here

Every pressure regulating station should have a failsafe blowoff

to handle the maximin pressure ahead off the regulator

and said system should work even with all power loss

Even if hack thru the scada system is done ***** Failsafe system should have kick-in automatically ******

unless said blow off is manually close by hand or disable or damage on purpose

a reply to: ohhhh

I don't understand how air gapping doesn't solve all network related "hacks", after that how else are you going to access their system remote?

a reply to: Trillium

This would be on the local distribution system. The pressure should be very low.

Do this sound like the regulation to very low pressure failed at the last stage?

originally posted by: Trillium
I work for TransCanada Pipeline for ten year

Work on 2"" at 100 Psi to 48" at 1000 Psi

Something not right here

Every pressure regulating station should have a failsafe blowoff

to handle the maximin pressure ahead off the regulator

and said system should work even with all power loss

Even if hack thru the scada system is done ***** Failsafe system should have kick-in automatically ******

unless said blow off is manually close by hand or disable or damage on purpose

Something is not right, for sure. I'm looking at the available photos and virtually all the fires, are in the attic/ roof area. And, I don't see any windows/ walls, debris blown out. There was one picture of a house that had exploded but I believe it is a stock photo, no smoldering or fire, at all. in fact, no fire trucks as well.

Whats up with this? Another 911??

originally posted by: All Seeing Eye

originally posted by: Trillium
I work for TransCanada Pipeline for ten year

Work on 2"" at 100 Psi to 48" at 1000 Psi

Something not right here

Every pressure regulating station should have a failsafe blowoff

to handle the maximin pressure ahead off the regulator

and said system should work even with all power loss

Even if hack thru the scada system is done ***** Failsafe system should have kick-in automatically ******

unless said blow off is manually close by hand or disable or damage on purpose

Something is not right, for sure. I'm looking at the available photos and virtually all the fires, are in the attic/ roof area. And, I don't see any windows/ walls, debris blown out. There was one picture of a house that had exploded but I believe it is a stock photo, no smoldering or fire, at all. in fact, no fire trucks as well.

Whats up with this? Another 911??

I was just watching some news coverage on it and they are all definitely burning and appears to be from the ground floor or basement, up.

Blown appliance regulators either in basement or kitchen because of over pressurizing is what I am betting on.

Now if it was accidental or a malicious hack....I guess we will see later. I just know that SCADA hacks have occurred many times before and if someone was able to over pressurize the lines then it could cause this.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: All Seeing Eye

originally posted by: Trillium
I work for TransCanada Pipeline for ten year

Work on 2"" at 100 Psi to 48" at 1000 Psi

Something not right here

Every pressure regulating station should have a failsafe blowoff

to handle the maximin pressure ahead off the regulator

and said system should work even with all power loss

Even if hack thru the scada system is done ***** Failsafe system should have kick-in automatically ******

unless said blow off is manually close by hand or disable or damage on purpose

Something is not right, for sure. I'm looking at the available photos and virtually all the fires, are in the attic/ roof area. And, I don't see any windows/ walls, debris blown out. There was one picture of a house that had exploded but I believe it is a stock photo, no smoldering or fire, at all. in fact, no fire trucks as well.

Whats up with this? Another 911??

I was just watching some news coverage on it and they are all definitely burning and appears to be from the ground floor or basement, up.

Blown appliance regulators either in basement or kitchen because of over pressurizing is what I am betting on.

Now if it was accidental or a malicious hack....I guess we will see later. I just know that SCADA hacks have occurred many times before and if someone was able to over pressurize the lines then it could cause this.

I see, what you are saying...