Not enough employees too many jobs -severe labor shortage

originally posted by: lordcomac

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: JAGStorm

The ONLY Solution is Wage Increases Across the Board for All Fields of Work to Encourage People to be Employed . A LIVING WAGE at Bare Minimum should be the New Norm in 2018 Considering U.S. Economic Growth .

Increased wages leads to increased costs- what service do you provide?
Double the pay of fast food workers, cost of fast food has to double to pay for it.
Farmers? food.

Get it?
Double everyones pay, cost of everything doubles.

Maybe look at cutting taxes instead- property tax is outrageous, and for rental properties it's passed off in the cost of rent.
Income taxes are out of control- to pay someone 10 an hour it'll cost a company 15, and they'll only see 7. That means they need to make $15 worth of value for every $7 they take home for a $10/hr job.... which doesn't come close to paying the rent.

The money itself is broken by design- there's no fixing this while under the thumb of fiat currency.

Double everyones pay, cost of everything doubles.

That may be but the only people I know who will work for 10-11/hour are teen agers and the very elderly. Raising the hourly wages to 15-20/hour will put many small businesses out of business. Average rent prices are relative. Big cities and high class communities are high but many rural areas are averaging 6-800.00 and that includes utilities for a 2 bedroom apt. A lifestyle is about choices, not just how much money you can make but how much you really need to live.

Cutting property taxes would be nice but where I live, every time they raise the taxes, they suddenly have million dollar projects that just HAVE to get done in the next 3 years. So they just keep raising taxes.

Either way, there's some big changes coming in the dynamics of this country and the world.

I hear zucchini is easy to grow and quite an abundant food source which can be prepared in MANY ways. Zuch spaghet, pickles, relish, mock crab cakes, bread and cookies. It's the perfect food! And pinto beans and rice are cheap.

a reply to: StoutBroux

If people really want to start getting ready for the changing dynamics I would suggest they start now.

There is nothing more humorous than people that garden for the first time and they expect gigantic crops of perfect produce. There is a learning curve to many survival situations, especially growing your own food. Being a country gal, it is pretty entertaining to see city folks in a country setting.

I do think you have a very valid point. In the past the people that survived the best were the ones that could count on themselves. Either by growing, or making or some special skill. I love hearing stories of my grandmother and greatgrandmother and how they made everything from scratch, from soap, to rootbeer to clothing.

originally posted by: Aazadan

But a raise can retain talent. I've got a lot of instiutional knowledge at my current job. I like the job, and if they were willing to pay me what I can get elsewhere (even ballpark, not necessarily as high) I would stay for the time being. Instead I'm talking to other companies that are offering 50% to 100% salary increases. I like my current job, but money is certainly a factor in loyalty.

I agree, but can the position you are in right now handle a 50% pay increase, and is it actually worth it to the company to pay you that much? To be honest I want to keep people 3 to 5 years, if they stay longer great, and this doesn't always mean they leave the company, they can move to another position. I want to hire into a position at the correct pay, Low balling does no one good, but once a person is in a position outside of a 3% raise or so per year it is almost impossible to give anything more...that is why I do not want to be handed a broken pay scale for me to fix...It would be easier to have the person leave the company and I rehire as a new employee.

a reply to: Xtrozero

This is exactly what I am talking about.

If another company values that position at 50% more, and another company, and another, pretty soon what you are paying them is not competitive. This is what is happening with the economy right now. Fast food & service industry places are at the bottom of the chain. At some point not having enough employees will negatively affect the entire company. Where I live, this is a real thing! We are going to see it more and more. Right now it is really the lower paid gigs, but it is going to travel upward, just wait and see..
www.tmj4.com...

It might be easier for you to let that person go and hire a new person for the position, but what happens when all those new people dry up? At that point what will you do?
(I know this may not reflect your specific industry but I am using it as an example as a whole)

originally posted by: chiefsmom
Since I seriously started looking for a job again, I have noticed this as well, and something else. Office manager, Admin manager, ect are also in demand, except they want at least an Associate degree for you to even apply. That is screwing me. I have 23 years experience, but no degree.
Doesn't seem like people care about loyalty anymore.


And the bus driver thing is huge in MI right now. They cannot keep drivers. From other drivers, I've heard they don't pay enough to put up with the kids crap anymore.

Apply anyways. If there is a shortage, they may hire you on experience alone. Most of the jobs I've had (the bigger ones) I got just by showing a serious interest and what I knew verses what I had on paper as proof.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
I agree, but can the position you are in right now handle a 50% pay increase, and is it actually worth it to the company to pay you that much? To be honest I want to keep people 3 to 5 years, if they stay longer great, and this doesn't always mean they leave the company, they can move to another position. I want to hire into a position at the correct pay, Low balling does no one good, but once a person is in a position outside of a 3% raise or so per year it is almost impossible to give anything more...that is why I do not want to be handed a broken pay scale for me to fix...It would be easier to have the person leave the company and I rehire as a new employee.

I hired into the company originally at a below market rate, my title was that of an intern but my job duties were those of a lead developer. Eventually, things happened and now I'm sitting at the company with two years experience, having written about 90% of our codebase, with even more responsibility, but the same entry level title and pay. I asked for a title change that reflects what I'm actually doing (at this company, pay band is determined by title) and instead they said no and kept me at the title they made up, which they could pay an arbitrary wage for rather than pay their industry standards. It's still a good wage, close to 6 figures, but it is not competitive.

So I've been looking around. I'm still looking but haven't had any company balk at my asking rate of ~175k total comp yet. I've had two offers at that rate in the past few weeks but I didn't like either of the companies so I turned them down.

I would be happy to stay, I really like the job, but they want to play hardball on salary. Lowballing people isn't a good way to create loyalty.

a reply to: Aazadan

Sometimes the only way to get your worth is to leave. At this point your current employer is holding you back and I hate to say it but they are using you.
Remember the value of time not just money, even one year can make a difference. If I could go back in time and talk to myself I would have left several employers many years earlier.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
If another company values that position at 50% more, and another company, and another, pretty soon what you are paying them is not competitive. This is what is happening with the economy right now. Fast food & service industry places are at the bottom of the chain. At some point not having enough employees will negatively affect the entire company. Where I live, this is a real thing! We are going to see it more and more. Right now it is really the lower paid gigs, but it is going to travel upward, just wait and see..

A friend of mine is a manager at a Wendys. Their store is bringing in plenty of customers. Sales are up, but margins are down. When he transferred into this Wendys from another location 6 months ago they had 30 employees. Today they are down to 17. The location is making more sales than ever before, but they're also unwilling to give more than 29 hours per week to non management, and they're unwilling to staff the location at what they used to staff at. This has resulted in the company cutting back hours, and paying management overtime because no one else is eligible for it (they view giving some employees over 29 as being worse than paying management overtime) and they need bodies doing the job.

They used to be open until 2 pm every night, with a full staff of 8 serving late night, and it would take under 30 min to prep for the morning shift and close. Now they close at midnight and my friend works 20 hours overtime per week from 12-4 am closing by himself.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: Aazadan

Sometimes the only way to get your worth is to leave. At this point your current employer is holding you back and I hate to say it but they are using you.
Remember the value of time not just money, even one year can make a difference. If I could go back in time and talk to myself I would have left several employers many years earlier.

Ya, I think it's time to move on. I've been very careful at work to try and keep my tasks focused on knowledge that is transferable. Of course, work has noticed this from me, and holds it as a strike against me that I'm not willing to go all in for the company and do things that would pigeonhole me to this specific position for the next 30 years (which is part of why they won't give me the salary I ask for).

A few weeks ago I saw a guy who was an expert on over 100 of our product lines, who had been with the company for 40 years, get fired. The only thing he knew professionally was our products. None of that knowledge could be transferred to another company. Being fired was effectively early retirement for him, he has no ability to move to any other company because his knowledge was company specific.

I do not want to be that person. Building some institutional knowledge is good, but primary skillsets should always be focused on general knowledge rather than something company specific.

a reply to: Aazadan

The question is how much longer can your friend work like that. At some point many people will leave. I know a place giving 30 hours of overtime every week (many of it mandatory), they can't keep people. They are offering bonuses and their pay is above industry standard. You become overworked and have no life outside of work. Who wants to live like that. Sure the money is good, but what good is it if you don't even have time to spend or enjoy it.
To never see your family or friends.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: Aazadan

The question is how much longer can your friend work like that. At some point many people will leave. I know a place giving 30 hours of overtime every week (many of it mandatory), they can't keep people. They are offering bonuses and their pay is above industry standard. You become overworked and have no life outside of work. Who wants to live like that. Sure the money is good, but what good is it if you don't even have time to spend or enjoy it.
To never see your family or friends.

Consider this, they're not even making money with their strategy.

One manager at $13/hour and 7 employees at $9/hour is $76/hour. The restaurant makes about $110/hour in revenue. So if they're open from 12-2 and then spend 30 min on cleanup, they spend $190 to bring in $220, an overall profit of $30. By shutting down early they lose $68 in revenue and pay $78 in wages. So they end up losing $146 overall. A spread of $176 per day.

But they're doing this because they're unwilling to hire more people. There's no shortage of applicants, and these aren't high skill jobs, the average employee lasts 2 to 3 months. I haven't heard anything about the applicant pool getting worse, or the company getting more picky. They're simply filling fewer positions. My friend was basically told to keep headcount at X when it used to be Y.

a reply to: Aazadan

We are seeing a lot of food poisoning cases lately. I wonder if some of it (not all) is due to lack of workers and the shortcuts they might be taking.

I believe it regarding the number of employees. There is a fried chicken place here. We just stopped going there, every time we went they have run out of chicken. How the heck do you have a restaurant that serves only chicken and always run out.

Hobby Lobby is notorious for lack of employees. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people put their stuff down and walk out of the store. If you have ten+ customers doing that over the course of the day, how much revenue are you losing.
These places are dumb!

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: Aazadan

The question is how much longer can your friend work like that. At some point many people will leave. I know a place giving 30 hours of overtime every week (many of it mandatory), they can't keep people. They are offering bonuses and their pay is above industry standard. You become overworked and have no life outside of work. Who wants to live like that. Sure the money is good, but what good is it if you don't even have time to spend or enjoy it.
To never see your family or friends.

That's what I'm talking about! Money becomes non objective. Learning early on about 'matter and don't matter' can make for a more beautiful and fulfilling life. If you have to make xxx amount of dollars to pay for basic living standards, don't just change your income and job life, change the basic standards to a comfortable and manageable situation that YOU permit to be part of the makeup of your life. This obviously may include some major moves and life adjustments. Sometimes we sabotage our own peace and happiness with 'don't matter' while being completely blind to the 'matter'.

originally posted by: Aazadan

I hired into the company originally at a below market rate, my title was that of an intern but my job duties were those of a lead developer. Eventually, things happened and now I'm sitting at the company with two years experience, having written about 90% of our codebase, with even more responsibility, but the same entry level title and pay. I asked for a title change that reflects what I'm actually doing (at this company, pay band is determined by title) and instead they said no and kept me at the title they made up, which they could pay an arbitrary wage for rather than pay their industry standards. It's still a good wage, close to 6 figures, but it is not competitive.

So I've been looking around. I'm still looking but haven't had any company balk at my asking rate of ~175k total comp yet. I've had two offers at that rate in the past few weeks but I didn't like either of the companies so I turned them down.

I would be happy to stay, I really like the job, but they want to play hardball on salary. Lowballing people isn't a good way to create loyalty.

As a senior manager I say it is time for you to move on to bigger and better things. One of the biggest problems I see is initial pay sets all future advances too, so if you start low you tend to always be on the low side no matter what you do in a company.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
As a senior manager I say it is time for you to move on to bigger and better things. One of the biggest problems I see is initial pay sets all future advances too, so if you start low you tend to always be on the low side no matter what you do in a company.

That's precisely what I'm doing. We're in the middle of a huge division reorganization right now, and many people are being promoted, getting title changes, etc... except they're mostly being given percentage adjustments on their old wage, and bumped up to a minimum value if pay band dictates it. It's pushing a lot of people to be on the low end, which will in turn impact any future growth.

If I stay, I *might* get 10%. If I go elsewhere I'll get between 50% and 100%

originally posted by: JAGStorm

It might be easier for you to let that person go and hire a new person for the position, but what happens when all those new people dry up? At that point what will you do?
(I know this may not reflect your specific industry but I am using it as an example as a whole)

I said it would be easier to let a person go and hire the SAME person back at a higher pay than it is for me to fix a pay that was low balled in the first place.

When people dry up then incentives increase. In Portland they are having a hard time getting people to work there and companies are offering pretty good incentives.

originally posted by: Aazadan

If I stay, I *might* get 10%. If I go elsewhere I'll get between 50% and 100%

10% is a typical jump in positions up through manager. The sucky part is if you were making 70k and another guy doing the same job as you was making 80k and you were both move up into the next position he would be at 88k and you would typically be at 77k...

There is no realigning of pay, so as I said you will do better moving on and resetting your starting pay with another company. The funny part is if you did that and lets say in three years came back to your old company there is a good chance they would re-higher you at the higher pay that you would never get internally... go figure...

originally posted by: Xtrozero
10% is a typical jump in positions up through manager. The sucky part is if you were making 70k and another guy doing the same job as you was making 80k and you were both move up into the next position he would be at 88k and you would typically be at 77k...

The way it's happening here, is that they're bumping up pay bands, and moving people to the minimum of that band (bands are typically 30% here). So if band 5 ranges between 40 and 60, and band 6 ranges between 52 and 78, if someone was making 50 as a 5 and they're bumped to a 6 they're being given 52. And we have a corporate policy that you can only jump a band internally once every 3 years (and you're ineligible for a raise for 2 years after a jump), so if they jump from 50 to 52. They're now locked at 52 for 2 years, and can then only jump 5%ish to 55 after that lockout.

A lot of that is going around in order to reduce future payroll.

a reply to: Aazadan

They say it's company policy, but if they really want to keep someone they will find a way and pay whatever it takes (trust me on this)
for everyone else it's like a standard excuse "oh this is the policy".
(unless you are working for the government, then it's pretty standard)

I have to laugh, if most workers had compensation history of other employees there would be a revolt.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
I have to laugh, if most workers had compensation history of other employees there would be a revolt.

That's how we know what's going on. Everyone on our team is open with each other about what we make. Management doesn't like us sharing the info, but they can't stop it. So a quick comparison of various offers going around, and we all figured out what corporate strategy was.