Not enough employees too many jobs -severe labor shortage

a reply to: Xtrozero

I'd be able to afford better healthcare for myself, which means I'd have more energy, with which I'd likely accomplish more. In addition with that extra money I could do more for my clients like bring surprise lunches I can't afford right now. Also with better health I'd be happier, which comes with more energy, making easier to keep a more pleasant demeanor after long hours and the emotional stress of the job, which would help keep the clients in a happier mood as well. Also with improved health, would be fewer days spent trying to fight through illness, and being better able to avoid contagious illnesses that due to my job force me to miss work due to clients weaker immune systems. In addition, I'd have more money to get out of debt, take my girlfriend out more, and make life at home more enjoyable. Another thing improving emotional and mental health, which again makes doing my job easier and more enjoyable for myself and my clients. With more robust emotional health comes more ability to manage my emotions and leave more room to handle having a caring demeanor without being overwhelmed by the stress. Also with greater health I'll be able to continue doing my job longer and more effectively than I will at my current rate of deterioration.

So yes actually, getting double my pay would make a huge difference on multiple fronts.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: howtonhawky

Ten jobs, five employees, you do the math.
Unless those jobs start paying significantly higher there isn't going to be a change. The only thing that will happen is those five employees will shift around.

The only answer is to find "missing" employees
-elderly
-non-working adults
-migrants
-more teens

Exactly what age do you think people should work to? How productive are the elderly going to be? How much will their health care costs raise the company insurance long term? Its bad enough that people have to work to 67 to get their full SS. And some jackleg in congress wants to make it 70 or 72. No one wants to literally work til the day they die.

You want to force handicapped people to work full time jobs? If they can't work, for whatever reason, they can't work. It sounds like you think everyone is faking it. I agree many could probably do some kind of part time work from home. However, you just put them in a death spiral financially. They will end up losing their homes and their incomes. For some people SSDI is necessary and trading that income for part time hours at low wages just won't cut it.

Migrants and teens? Really? For decades it was, "There are no jobs in my neighborhood." Forget the fact that they wouldn't go to a neighborhood where there were jobs and work there. Now there are jobs but no one is taking them. The jobs have always been out there somewhere. Some people just don't want to work. They have no skills, no problem solving abilities, nothing. Raising minimum wage won't change that.

Ending welfare won't change it either. Welfare was never meant to be a way of life. Unfortunately, some people see it as exactly that. The system is so screwed up that people can get away with scams you can't even imagine. There is no common sense. The sad part is that some people really do need it. If you end a program like that it will hurt the people who need it, not the ones who abuse it. Those people will just find another program to abuse or another scam to run. Just like SSDI, the only people who get hurt are the ones who really need it. The scammers just find another scam.

My solution to this labor problem is to put shop classes back in high schools. My high school had an actual work program. If you were taking machine shop you could actually go to a working shop for a few hours a week during school hours, learn while you were working, and get paid for it. They had programs for all kinds of trades. Not any more. Now kids get out of school and want to be CEO.

Sorry kid...

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: howtonhawky

Ten jobs, five employees, you do the math.
Unless those jobs start paying significantly higher there isn't going to be a change. The only thing that will happen is those five employees will shift around.

The only answer is to find "missing" employees
-elderly
-non-working adults
-migrants
-more teens

Exactly what age do you think people should work to? How productive are the elderly going to be? How much will their health care costs raise the company insurance long term? Its bad enough that people have to work to 67 to get their full SS. And some jackleg in congress wants to make it 70 or 72. No one wants to literally work til the day they die.

You want to force handicapped people to work full time jobs? If they can't work, for whatever reason, they can't work. It sounds like you think everyone is faking it. I agree many could probably do some kind of part time work from home. However, you just put them in a death spiral financially. They will end up losing their homes and their incomes. For some people SSDI is necessary and trading that income for part time hours at low wages just won't cut it.

Migrants and teens? Really? For decades it was, "There are no jobs in my neighborhood." Forget the fact that they wouldn't go to a neighborhood where there were jobs and work there. Now there are jobs but no one is taking them. The jobs have always been out there somewhere. Some people just don't want to work. They have no skills, no problem solving abilities, nothing. Raising minimum wage won't change that.

Ending welfare won't change it either. Welfare was never meant to be a way of life. Unfortunately, some people see it as exactly that. The system is so screwed up that people can get away with scams you can't even imagine. There is no common sense. The sad part is that some people really do need it. If you end a program like that it will hurt the people who need it, not the ones who abuse it. Those people will just find another program to abuse or another scam to run. Just like SSDI, the only people who get hurt are the ones who really need it. The scammers just find another scam.

My solution to this labor problem is to put shop classes back in high schools. My high school had an actual work program. If you were taking machine shop you could actually go to a working shop for a few hours a week during school hours, learn while you were working, and get paid for it. They had programs for all kinds of trades. Not any more. Now kids get out of school and want to be CEO.

Sorry kid...

I would give you a hundred stars for that post if I could.

I suspect the people that claim what your above post countered have never really actually worked for a living and are taking their cues from someone else's opinion.

a reply to: Puppylove

Yes massa, thank you for the gruel massa.

So getting people who can work off of welfare is the same thing as slavery now? Way to dismiss the struggles of the people who actually went through slavery.

If all you have to offer is basic survival for hard labor, you're a slave master, no more, no less.

And if you think you shouldn't have to work for what you get just because it is hard, you will never make it in life.

In some cases people can't even afford basic survival with the wages provided and need government assistance on top of it. Which means once again, you get what you pay for, less than a minimal job, a truly #ty job to go with your #ty pay.

Get a better job then. Construction pays decent. If you not willing to work for it, don't complain about it.

Oh and another thing, if you expect people to work their entire lives away at your job to the point what free time they have at home is spent exhausted in full on recovery mode, don't be surprised when they goof off at work, take longer breaks than they are supposed to, and work at a leisurely pace. After all, your job is the only life they have and they aren't going to spend it doing nothing but slaving for you.

And if you expect a free ride from someone else, don't be suprised and cry about it when they tell you no.

There is a push to make generations of Americans incapable of doing physical work.
They are told there are jobs they wont and cannot do.
There are not enough programs that get kids into a skill that requires your hands and tools.
It seems there is a effort to get foreigners into jobs before Americas.

Drove through West Texas a couple of months ago. There were towns and cities with help wanted signs on every corner and in windows of most businesses. Yet, there were still panhandlers and 'bums'. One couple out in Fort Stockton, Texas had signs asking for 'donations' and wanting people to go with them and see how they were forced to live; this right beside 'help wanted' signs. Some people do not want to work.

Drove through West Texas a couple of months ago. There were towns and cities with help wanted signs on every corner and in windows of most businesses. Yet, there were still panhandlers and 'bums'. One couple out in Fort Stockton, Texas had signs asking for 'donations' and wanting people to go with them and see how they were forced to live; this right beside 'help wanted' signs. Some people do not want to work.

originally posted by: chiefsmom
Since I seriously started looking for a job again, I have noticed this as well, and something else. Office manager, Admin manager, ect are also in demand, except they want at least an Associate degree for you to even apply. That is screwing me. I have 23 years experience, but no degree.
Doesn't seem like people care about loyalty anymore.


And the bus driver thing is huge in MI right now. They cannot keep drivers. From other drivers, I've heard they don't pay enough to put up with the kids crap anymore.

Oh this is my biggest complaint besides the fact they don't pay but $1 more if you have a degree here. I recently applied for a job I'm qualified for that I do EVERY DAY! My co-worker who was in sales and has an AA was given the job. I was very upset because it was an underwriting job and he was in sales and was one of my biggest problems with underwriting yet he gets a job in it?! Even my boss was like they picked him over you? The only thing he has is a degree that's it.

I have world in service and HR for 20 years and these places want bachelors degrees over down one who knows what they are doing. I would rather have someone with experience than a piece of paper!

I've been looking at retail jobs even in management but now they want a bachelors and starting pay STARTING pay is $10-$12 an hour!!! It's laughable.

Duplicate post

a reply to: mblahnikluver

Starting pay for retail management is $12/hour? Where? Wal-mart associates make that, their managers average well into the six figure range. When I worked at a chain pizza restaurant (before the financial crisis) they paid their assistant managers $12/hr. Management was paid around 45k/yr ($21/hr). I don't live in a high cost or high wage area. I can't fathom management only making $12/hr anywhere now, but I'm not the one looking so maybe things have changed in the last 5-10 years.

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus

originally posted by: jacobe001

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: SR1TX


I pay great $ for high quality work, and my team is very motivated to make more based on the enjoyment having $, a tool, brings.

Money is a great motivator. Try not having it sometime.

Give them 5 bucks an hour pay raise and see if they work harder...lol More pay just becomes the new norm and so production will drop back to what it was before.

You still need to pay for skill and the value the position brings you, so yes you could be paying big $$ for a person's skills, BUT they better be bringing profit to offset that pay or you will not be in business very long.

If you are paying peanuts and constantly loosing and training new people because no one wants to stick around, you will not be in business very long either.

But you think socialism is still better right? Just today someone told me they took a group of Russians to a Costco. The one girl asked "where is the coffee line?" And fainted when she saw the row where the coffee is. This is a true story and I had no idea they still had bread lines in Russia.

I am not sure where you get I want socialism in my post.
Read my sig.
I want to do away with corporatism where big business is in bed with government.

Big business needs to sink or swim on their own and not run to government for bail outs, pork filled contracts and trade with slave labor nations.

No more bail outs nor QE for the financial sector either.

A lot of the big corporations like goldmen sachs encourage their top employees to run in politics to service them. That is not capitalism. That practice needs to end as well.


Sink or swim. No special favors.
Capitalism.

originally posted by: dawnstar
if we were going with capitalism 101, either the wages would be higher, or the cost of living would be lower, or both...

This is a good example of the lack of education Americans have. We're trying to discuss economic policy based on a very simple introductory to the theory, an introduction that most economists don't even consider to be correct. Rather than 101, you should be looking at capitalism 410 to start a discussion and 510 or 610 to start making points.

That's not an attack on you btw, just on a choice of words that has been repeated in this thread by several people.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
That can be true, if it is a job that takes a day or two to learn then you can do this...not something I would see as a career. I hire people into positions that pay 80k to start, takes me 3 or 4 months to train up and I want to keep them 3 to 5 years or more, so yes the pay isn't bad, but then they are not flipping hamburgers.

Some employers think all work only takes a couple hours to learn. Fighting this at work right now, they want to bring in programmers with zero experience or background, thinking I can train them how to do the job inside of a day or two. They think this because our factory workers are taught how to do the same thing in their stations with whatever equipment they're using.

originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: mblahnikluver

Starting pay for retail management is $12/hour? Where? Wal-mart associates make that, their managers average well into the six figure range. When I worked at a chain pizza restaurant (before the financial crisis) they paid their assistant managers $12/hr. Management was paid around 45k/yr ($21/hr). I don't live in a high cost or high wage area. I can't fathom management only making $12/hr anywhere now, but I'm not the one looking so maybe things have changed in the last 5-10 years.

Welcome to Florida! Pay here is ridiculous as is the cost of living. Average 2/1 where I live is $1200 which means you need to make at least $22/hr to qualify to rent. It is INSANE! I absolutely hate this state for so many reasons. I am actively looking to move out of state or the country.

I make $13/hr in service which i have 20 years of experience in. I have ZERO benefits. No health, no dental, no holiday or sick and no 401k.

originally posted by: mblahnikluver
Welcome to Florida! Pay here is ridiculous as is the cost of living. Average 2/1 where I live is $1200 which means you need to make at least $22/hr to qualify to rent. It is INSANE! I absolutely hate this state for so many reasons. I am actively looking to move out of state or the country.

I make $13/hr in service which i have 20 years of experience in. I have ZERO benefits. No health, no dental, no holiday or sick and no 401k.

Small town Ohio here. I live in a 2/1 in a nice neighborhood and it costs me $600/month. Most jobs pay around $10/hour, so that would be a bit more than 1/3 of income to rent. Less if you had a roommate or made more money.

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

Where I live, rent is set by what HUD pays. A few years ago a mental hospital was shut down. Many of the residents were moved to the small town where I live. The Government pays for their housing and utilities. The apartments above the stores on our Main Street were the desired locations, so that everything is within walking distance. People who had lived in those apartments for years were told to get out to make room. A little bit of paint and a few handrails and a $300 per month apartment now goes for $900.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: jacobe001

So then who is left if the kids are back in school and unavailable to do those jobs?
The cheap labor express illegals?

Illegals do many jobs Americans will not do, so there is a need... I would like to see work visa programs instead of illegals.

They don't give work visas for that, they give work visas for the better jobs.

originally posted by: jacobe001

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus

originally posted by: jacobe001

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: SR1TX


I pay great $ for high quality work, and my team is very motivated to make more based on the enjoyment having $, a tool, brings.

Money is a great motivator. Try not having it sometime.

Give them 5 bucks an hour pay raise and see if they work harder...lol More pay just becomes the new norm and so production will drop back to what it was before.

You still need to pay for skill and the value the position brings you, so yes you could be paying big $$ for a person's skills, BUT they better be bringing profit to offset that pay or you will not be in business very long.

If you are paying peanuts and constantly loosing and training new people because no one wants to stick around, you will not be in business very long either.

But you think socialism is still better right? Just today someone told me they took a group of Russians to a Costco. The one girl asked "where is the coffee line?" And fainted when she saw the row where the coffee is. This is a true story and I had no idea they still had bread lines in Russia.

I am not sure where you get I want socialism in my post.
Read my sig.
I want to do away with corporatism where big business is in bed with government.

Big business needs to sink or swim on their own and not run to government for bail outs, pork filled contracts and trade with slave labor nations.

No more bail outs nor QE for the financial sector either.

A lot of the big corporations like goldmen sachs encourage their top employees to run in politics to service them. That is not capitalism. That practice needs to end as well.


Sink or swim. No special favors.
Capitalism.

Yah no sorry it's the fisted hand in your avatar... a dead giveaway and I know it's not "take my gun from my cold dead hands " and yes I'm against bailouts and always have been. I wonder how many people realize price floors and ceilings are Government intervention in the market. You and I both know the fisted hand has been a sign since the Bolshevik Revolution.

Businesses need to step it up then. If nobody will come work for you figure out why. Pay? Hours? Benefits? All of the above? Time to adapt.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: dawnstar
if we were going with capitalism 101, either the wages would be higher, or the cost of living would be lower, or both...

This is a good example of the lack of education Americans have. We're trying to discuss economic policy based on a very simple introductory to the theory, an introduction that most economists don't even consider to be correct. Rather than 101, you should be looking at capitalism 410 to start a discussion and 510 or 610 to start making points.

That's not an attack on you btw, just on a choice of words that has been repeated in this thread by several people.

" We should " used in this manner indicates the conditioning of expecting the government to intervene because most people think that's the only way it can happen. I happen to think that the Fed tends to control much of things because it creates a hidden tax and consequent inflation. People really could study this more.