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For those with faith in God: God and the concept of time.

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posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 06:41 AM
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a reply to: EasternShadow
Please forget the magician just for a minute.
Look right now to what is seeing these words.

Forget maths, forget telescopes.................forget every thing and look to what is looking.

edit on 29-8-2018 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 11:40 AM
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originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: EasternShadow
Please forget the magician just for a minute.
Look right now to what is seeing these words.

Forget maths, forget telescopes.................forget every thing and look to what is looking.

Paul Hedderman: What's looking is what you are looking for?

Isn't Paul Hedderman teaches Non-Duality (advaita) based on Zen, where we are oneness with God? He assume we are looking for cessation of suffering simply because it was the goal for Gautama Buddha's Buddhism. It is not true. Not everyone aim for that goal in their life. Christian most definitely looking for salvation in the afterlife, something that is Paul Hedderman's non duality, not very familiar with.

The video basically inform the difference between looking and seeing with his own "style" of arranging words. I'm restraining my "self" out of respect for the man. Therefore, I wouldn't comment on his opinion.

But I do not agree on his view about "knowing God and Not Knowing God" at 2.01. Perhaps he doesn't realize he's making contradiction….and non sensible statements?

The difference between me and Paul Hedderman is, Paul Hedderman is teaching "looking but not seeing," while my post is about "seeing the past and present but not knowing."


edit on 29-8-2018 by EasternShadow because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 12:01 PM
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originally posted by: EasternShadow


But I do not agree on his view about "knowing God and Not Knowing God" at 2.01.


Paul Hedderman said: "Knowing God is Being God". And goes on to say: "Very direct. Not.....knowing God makes you closer get to God".

He does not say -"knowing God and Not Knowing God" at 2.01.

If you have misheard Paul Hedderman then you may not disagree with him after all, no?
edit on 29-8-2018 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 12:07 PM
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originally posted by: EasternShadow

Not everything you see happens now. They can happened in the past, but because of great distance, we can only see now. It's physic inverse-square law. It's how we measure astronomical distances.

Well, technically there is always a delay before the light reflecting of an object (or coming of or from an object) reaches one's eye, and before it's translated by the machinery in the body for the brain to make some sense of it (for the mind; in case anyone wants to make an issue of the way I phrased that, speaking of the chemical electrical processses in the brain responsible for what the mind ultimately concludes to have seen. Not to encourage a potentially boring or longwinded philosophical discussion or debate about the differences between the words "brain" and "mind"). So nothing you see happens exactly at the moment your brain (ok, and mind*) has made sense of what you're seeing. The distance just increases the delay and the distances on earth are so small and neglible that we tend to ignore that delay and think of it as happening now. It's not really worth mentioning other than in the context of astronomical observations and research. *: really not the point here (which is technically 'making sense of it', there are 2 ways of phrasing it, as I've just done)

Anyway, it's impossible to live (present tense) in the past, unless one means that figuratively (as in the phrase 'stuck in the past', for describing someone that is being old-fashioned for example). One can say "you have lived in the past" but not "you are living ... in the past", as you said. However, what you seemed to be referring to is that "basically, by gazing at [the] night sky and stars, you are" observing what happened in the past. Which is always the case but more noticeable when looking at things that are very far away like stars. So maybe one can fit some figurative application onto what you said initially, but it sounds weird and confusing to me if that is what you wanted to point out. Of course, saying it like that probably doesn't allow one to jump to or setup (lead in) the erronuous conclusion that "time itself has no meaning outside Earth". Or perhaps thinking of time as anything other than a simple* linear concept, the past has happened, the present is happening now, the future is yet to happen, or is going to happen. You have lived in the past, you are living in the present, and you will live in the future (if you don't die first), regardless of what you're looking at. *: no need to overcomplicate matters


originally posted by: EasternShadow

Our night sky and stars is also an illusion of present and past.

Just because one is looking at light that has left its source a long time ago doesn't automatically make it an illusion (to everyone, certainly not to those who understand this). I find it hard to even agree with a figurative application for "illusion" in that idea.

An application for the word "illusion" as I understand the word and at first think of when reading it is used below at 7:08 (focussing primarily on the meanings: a deceptive appearance or impression, a false idea or belief):

edit on 29-8-2018 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 12:12 PM
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originally posted by: whereislogic

originally posted by: EasternShadow

Not everything you see happens now. They can happened in the past, but because of great distance, we can only see now. It's physic inverse-square law. It's how we measure astronomical distances.

Well, technically there is always a delay before the light reflecting of an object (or coming of or from an object) reaches one's eye, and before it's translated by the machinery in the body for the brain to make some sense of it. So nothing you see happens exactly at the moment your brain has made sense of what you're seeing.

The mind makes sense of what appears.
Sense.
Sensation.
Life is sensational and then the brain tries to make sense??


edit on 29-8-2018 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 02:05 PM
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originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: EasternShadow


But I do not agree on his view about "knowing God and Not Knowing God" at 2.01.


Paul Hedderman said: "Knowing God is Being God". And goes on to say: "Very direct. Not.....knowing God makes you closer get to God".

And that's the pinnacle Paul Hedderman's Zen Buddhism can produce? That makes sense to you and/or sounds insightful enough to share on this forum for all to waste or poison their minds on (see my signature and text under my name)?

Gobbledygook is not wisdom, insight, enlightenment or healthy for your mind (if you take it too seriously, or waste a lot of your time on it that is better spend contemplating more realistic thoughts, arguments and claims concerning the topic of God if one's intention is to gain more enlightenment or spiritual insight into that subject, as Zen Buddhists claim to have as their main goal in general*, not necessarily concerning the topic of God but including the topic of God on this occasion).

*: in reality they seem to have other goals and intentions, attention and giving the impression of being enlightened or insightful individuals seems to be higher on the agenda for those making some money out of this (or some other social gain)

That title:

"You are the Seeing"


Fly, Lucius, Fly

Romans 1:22

Although claiming they were wise, they became foolish
edit on 29-8-2018 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 02:52 PM
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a reply to: whereislogic

Paul Hedderman was quoting Sri Ramana Maharshi when he said 'Knowing God is being God'.
happinessofbeing.blogspot.com...



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 03:17 PM
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originally posted by: whereislogic

Or perhaps thinking of time as anything other than a simple* linear concept, the past has happened, the present is happening now, the future is yet to happen, or is going to happen. You have lived in the past, you are living in the present, and you will live in the future (if you don't die first), regardless of what you're looking at. *: no need to overcomplicate matters

edit: "regardless of what you're looking at (blind people are alive too)."

Robfox alluded to an alternate view of time as "anything other than a simple linear concept" when he said:
"He [God] is in past, present, and future". As if existing in the past, present and future all at once (which I called a weird vague way of phrasing things anyway, in my attempt to stay polite and respectful, which if I'm completely honest and hoping not to offend with that word, I still perceive as more gobbledygook). Dcopymope did something similar when he said "what we call the future has already occurred to God, because he has already seen it."

Overcomplicating simple matters causing a demonstration of several bible texts about that behaviour. Nope, the future has not yet occured to God any more than it has occured to us, which has little to do with whether or not God can see (or predict, prophecy or even foreordain) the future. Time is a simple linear concept, no need to let your mind run off into wild fantasies and imagination about it (don't "Fly, Lucius, Fly").



edit on 29-8-2018 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 03:31 PM
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a reply to: whereislogic


An application for the word "illusion" as I understand the word and at first think of when reading it is used below at 7:08 (focussing primarily on the meanings: a deceptive appearance or impression, a false idea or belief):


What is illusion? M.: To whom is the illusion? Find it out. Then illusion will vanish. Generally people want to know about illusion and do not examine to whom it is. It is foolish. Illusion is outside and unknown. But the seeker is considered to be known and is inside. Find out what is immediate, intimate, instead of trying to find out what is distant and unknown.
Ramana Maharshi. www.azquotes.com...
edit on 29-8-2018 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 08:03 PM
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a reply to: RobFox


Is God eternal because of where He lives or because of who He is?

The God of Abram is eternal because He is total Spirit with unknowable substance and strength. The book of Revelation tells us that our spirit is also eternal as we then live in paradise of New Jerusalem but our new body must be fed the heavenly food and water of paradise in order to sustain eternal life. Paradise is located in the heavenly city of New Jerusalem. We do have a portion of celestial life but of what substance that entails is not revealed to us as we speak.



posted on Aug, 30 2018 @ 03:35 AM
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originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: whereislogic

Paul Hedderman was quoting Sri Ramana Maharshi when he said 'Knowing God is being God'.
happinessofbeing.blogspot.com...

I already understood he likes to borrow or promote stuff from all sorts of Eastern philosophy. I just said "Paul Hedderman's Zen Buddhism" cause that seems to be his main thing on his youtube channel called "Zen BitchSlap", which reminds me of Dawkins (and Hitchens) btw, another one who likes to talk in the same nonsensical manner, not only twisting logic, but even the proper coherent use of language (as you just demonstrated for Ramana Maharshi as well*):

Psychology: Dawkins&Krauss selling the philosophy and contradiction that nothing is something

*: which is not really that surprising cause they travel the same paths of thought (allthough what you just quoted from Maharshi in your last comment is primarily more vague or just not that insightful or useful for general enlightenment, it's not some impressive insight into the topic of illusions, another fairly simple word to understand requiring no vague philosophical blah-blah about it from my perspective, i.e. I don't need that, I know what the word means, I gave the 2 related meanings that are relevant to how it's used in that video about phylogenetic trees):

The Pagan Religious Roots of Evolutionary Philosophies Part 1

Ok, I'll analyze a bit of what Maharshi said (+ your introduction?):

"What is illusion?" (I assume you mean "What is an illusion?" or "What is illusionary?"; can't tell which you mean, too vague)
"To whom is the illusion? Find it out. Then illusion will vanish." (I think I'm missing a "the" there at the end before "illusion", and perhaps some specifics as to what he means with "find it out", perhaps he's referring to figuring out what it is about "the illusion" that makes it so deceptive and what the truth of the matter is, obviously, once someone figures that out it's no longer an illusion to them, but it still could be to other people; again his words are too vague, and open to different interpretations, my possible interpretation that I just mentioned, is something so obvious that it shouldn't even need to be mentioned, so where is this brilliant insight* into the topic of illusions? *: that makes it worth quoting because I responded to your usage of it earlier in reference to something that is not an illusion to me)
"Generally people want to know about illusion and do not examine to whom it is." (again because this is a weird vague way of using language, I'm just going to interpret that as him saying "generally people want to know [something? the truth?] about illusions [or want to know what is an illusion to either them or others] and do not examine to whom something is an illusion", well, maybe, but I doubt he has any statistics to back up his claim there. And it's not really big news that something can be an illusion to someone when it gives them a deceptive appearance or impression, a false idea or belief, since that's what the word means. So to them it's then an illusion. Once you've figured out the truth of the matter by using logic and reason properly and effectively it's easy to tell to whom something is an illusion.)
"It is foolish." (what is? Not examining to whom something is an illusion? That comes automatically when one figures out that something is an illusion to either themselves or others. At which point it ceases to be an illusion to the person who has figured that out as per my interpretation for "find it out" described above.)
" Illusion is outside and unknown. But the seeker is considered to be known and is inside. Find out what is immediate, intimate, instead of trying to find out what is distant and unknown." (and here is where he totally lost me with his vagueness, i.e. lost my interest, not much point in trying to analyze the meaning of gobbledygook, the motive of spreading fancy gobbledygook is more interesting to think about; although, at first glance the last part already sounds contradictory to his earlier encouragement to "find it out", referring to "the illusion" with "it", and now he says you should 'find out' about something else "instead", since the earlier mentioned "illusion" is "unknown". Great confusing advice there. And wide open to interpretation that tries to obscure that contradictory advice and tries to explain it in a way that it doesn't sound as contradictory anymore as it does now without specifics and clarity about what is actually meant.)
edit on 30-8-2018 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 30 2018 @ 11:28 AM
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a reply to: RobFox


When I get to Eternity, will I be omnipresent like God is omnipresent? In other words, will I become more like God?

Naturally your question is answered by a verity of people with different beliefs but in the NT Revelation of John you may be sanctified and placed in the celestial city of New Jerusalem. This city is cubed with three guarded gates on each of its four sides. This being true describes the citizens of the New Jerusalem to have similar laws of existence that we have today here in this terrestrial body. The New Jerusalem is seated upon a new earth with a new heaven above that new earth.

The guarded gates of New Jerusalem will restrict traffic going into and out of the city. One must have the proper identification to pass through the guarded gates, enter the land, and return to the city. This means that a person does not fly about as a bird nor pass through solid creations such as the walls of the city. This shows me that the heavenly body and spirit is restricted similarly as it is in this terrestrial realm. The new heavenly body has no flesh as we know terrestrial flesh. It has no blood and the need for body organs such as heart or lungs simply does not exist. It has no death or aging as those terrestrial things no longer exist. The new celestial body has eternal existence with no order of time within the city but there is time outside of the city.

This and many other wonderful things are shown to us in both Isaiah chapters 65 and 66 and Revelation chapters 21 and 22.
Nevertheless, we are not of the same substance as the Creator. The new spiritualism that is replacing religion today does not recognize any of this and in a few more years will be this worlds new movement in afterlife belief. Christianity is a dying religious institution just as is prophesied in the NT.



posted on Aug, 30 2018 @ 08:24 PM
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originally posted by: whereislogic
Anyway, it's impossible to live (present tense) in the past, unless one means that figuratively (as in the phrase 'stuck in the past', for describing someone that is being old-fashioned for example). One can say "you have lived in the past" but not "you are living ... in the past", as you said. However, what you seemed to be referring to is that "basically, by gazing at [the] night sky and stars, you are" observing what happened in the past. Which is always the case but more noticeable when looking at things that are very far away like stars. So maybe one can fit some figurative application onto what you said initially, but it sounds weird and confusing to me if that is what you wanted to point out.

What so confusing? You are seeing the past in video and TV every day. You are seeing them now. No one is confusing with what they are watching. Why is so difficult to accept that, past and present can collide through different medium such TV, Video etc. I have already given this examples in my previous post. If you see Hitler giving speech in video, does that mean Hitler is presently giving the speech? Of course not. Everyone know it is just an illusion of the past. An event that is no longer exist in present time.

When you are watching stars goes supernova, you know those stars no longer exist million years ago. So technically few seconds prior to supernova, you are watching stars that are no longer exist million years ago. What you see in the present time prior to supernova is not real. They are just an illusion. They do not exist now. They already exploded million years ago. That event already happened in the past and you are watching it now.

Therefore, I stand correct with illusion. Anything you see that you know doesn't actually exist is an illusion.

Illusion is a fact. Aurora is an illusion. Spoon bends in water is an illusion. A city can appear upside down by certain condition, is an illusion. There are lot of illusions at ocean and Antartica.

See this?

Only the fools believe the spoon bends or breaks in water as real.



originally posted by: whereislogic
Of course, saying it like that probably doesn't allow one to jump to or setup (lead in) the erronuous conclusion that "time itself has no meaning outside Earth". Or perhaps thinking of time as anything other than a simple* linear concept, the past has happened, the present is happening now, the future is yet to happen, or is going to happen. You have lived in the past, you are living in the present, and you will live in the future (if you don't die first), regardless of what you're looking at. *: no need to overcomplicate matters.

Time doesn't exist outside Earth.

You don't age and grow in the afterlife. That is why God view children as special creation. Children remain children forever when they die. Forever pure and innocent. Nothing change. Because spirits don't change. How can you measure time when nothing change?

There is no complication. You are just being stuck with enthrophy as time passes. And you're just being stuck with English definition of Past, present and future, created by men, while ignoring other English definition for time like, Eternal.

It is true when we observe everything on Earth. But this doesn't always true to life beyond Earth's influence.

Infinity doesn't apply to life on earth.
edit on 30-8-2018 by EasternShadow because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-8-2018 by EasternShadow because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 30 2018 @ 09:08 PM
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originally posted by: whereislogic
Nope, the future has not yet occured to God any more than it has occured to us, which has little to do with whether or not God can see (or predict, prophecy or even foreordain) the future. Time is a simple linear concept, no need to let your mind run off into wild fantasies and imagination about it (don't "Fly, Lucius, Fly").

The future has not yet occurred to God? Seriously whereislogic? So you don't believe in predestined or fate?

You don't believe God can watch the future, replay the pass and edit the present to change the future? I'm not saying God actively "edit" or interfere the present. I'm asking what do you believe in the Almighty God's power?

1 Sam. 23:11
he calls things that are not, as if they were in being; what he calls is not unknown to him: if he knows things that are not, he knows things that may never be; as he knows things that shall be, because he wills them, so he knows things that might be, because he is able to effect them: he knew that the inhabitants of Keilah would betray David to Saul if he remained in that place

Matt. 11:21
he knew what they would do upon that occasion, though it was never done; as he knew what was in their power and in their wills, so he must needs know what is within the compass of his own power; as he can permit more than he doth permit so he knows what he can permit, and what, upon that permission, would be done by his creatures; so God knew the possibility of the Tyrians’ repentance, if they had had the same means, heard the same truths, and beheld the same miracles which were offered to the ears, and presented to the eyes of the Jews .


Rom. 4:17
for he calls things that are not as if they were
edit on 30-8-2018 by EasternShadow because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 31 2018 @ 04:54 AM
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edit on 31-8-2018 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 31 2018 @ 05:03 AM
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a reply to: whereislogic

Who or what wants to know what an illusion is?
Are you sure the 'who' is not the illusion?

Is there really a 'who' and a 'what'? Is there really two 'things' (a someone + something)?
When the two become one the kingdom shall be revealed!
edit on 31-8-2018 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 31 2018 @ 05:18 AM
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a reply to: EasternShadow


Time doesn't exist outside Earth.

You don't age and grow in the afterlife. That is why God view children as special creation. Children remain children forever when they die. Forever pure and innocent. Nothing change. Because spirits don't change. How can you measure time when nothing change?

Spirit does not change or experience time.......yet it does experience change.
Have you ever changed?
You experience the body changing, you experience thoughts appearing, disappearing and different thoughts and sensations but the you that is AWARE of the changes does not ever change.
What is seeing out of those eyes never changes.

Do you feel any different than you did when you were 5, 12, 18, 30?
Old people will tell you that they do not feel any different than when they were young......it is just when they look in the mirror it can be a shock.
edit on 31-8-2018 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 31 2018 @ 05:20 AM
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originally posted by: EasternShadow

originally posted by: whereislogic
Nope, the future has not yet occured to God any more than it has occured to us, which has little to do with whether or not God can see (or predict, prophecy or even foreordain) the future. Time is a simple linear concept, no need to let your mind run off into wild fantasies and imagination about it (don't "Fly, Lucius, Fly").

The future has not yet occurred to God? Seriously whereislogic? So you don't believe in predestined or fate?

Nope. And neither does the bible teach that your life is predestined.

The Bible’s Viewpoint: Is Your Life Predestined? Awake!—2007

...
MANY people feel that whatever happens to them, good or bad, has been decided by a force greater than themselves. For example, the 16th-century Reformer John Calvin wrote: “We define predestination as the eternal design of God, whereby he determined what he wanted to do with each man. For he did not create them all in the same condition, but foreordains some to everlasting life and others to eternal damnation.”

Does God really ordain ahead of time what our actions and our final destiny are going to be? What does the Bible teach?

The “Logic” of Predestination

Some who believe in predestination reason basically as follows: God is omniscient. He knows everything, even what is going to happen in the future. He knows what each person is going to do with his life, and he already knows the exact moment and manner of each person’s death. So, according to their thinking, when the time comes for an individual to make a decision, his choice cannot be other than the way God has foreseen and foreordained it; otherwise, God would not be all-knowing. Does this reasoning seem sound to you? Consider what its logical consequences would be.

If some force has already determined your future, then trying to take care of yourself is useless. Choosing to smoke or not to smoke would make no difference to your health or that of your children. Wearing a seat belt while riding in an automobile would have no effect on your safety. But this is faulty logic. Statistics show that people who take precautions suffer fewer fatal consequences. Carelessness can result in tragedy.

Consider another line of reasoning. If God chooses to foreknow everything, then even before he made Adam and Eve, he would have known that they would disobey him. But when God told Adam that he must not eat from “the tree of the knowledge of good and bad” or he would die, did God already know that Adam would eat from it? (Genesis 2:16, 17) When God told the first couple: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth,” did he know that their wonderful prospect of life in a paradise was doomed to failure? Of course not.​—Genesis 1:28.

Taken to its logical conclusion, the idea that God foreknows all decisions would mean that he is responsible for all that happens​—including wars, injustices, and suffering. Is that possible? A clear answer is provided by what God says about himself.

“You Must Choose”

The Scriptures state that “God is love” and that he is “a lover of justice.” He has always urged his people: “Hate what is bad, and love what is good.” (1 John 4:8; Psalm 37:28; Amos 5:15) On numerous occasions he encouraged his loyal ones to choose a virtuous course. For example, when Jehovah concluded a covenant with the ancient nation of Israel, he said to them, through Moses: “I do take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today, that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the malediction; and you must choose life in order that you may keep alive, you and your offspring.” (Deuteronomy 30:19) Did God establish ahead of time the choice that those individuals would make? Evidently not.

Joshua, a leader of God’s people in ancient times, exhorted his countrymen: “Choose for yourselves today whom you will serve . . . As for me and my household, we shall serve Jehovah.” (Joshua 24:15) Similarly, God’s prophet Jeremiah said: “Obey, please, the voice of Jehovah in what I am speaking to you, and it will go well with you, and your soul will continue to live.” (Jeremiah 38:20) Would a just and loving God encourage people to do right in the hope of receiving a reward if he knew that they were destined to fail? No. Such encouragement would be hypocritical.

So when good or bad things happen in your life, it is not because these events are inevitable. Very often, ‘unforeseen occurrences’ are simply the consequences of other people’s decisions​—whether wise or unwise. (Ecclesiastes 9:11) No, your future is not planned out before you, and your own decisions determine what your everlasting future will be.
...

In the past I've also elaborated on God's selective foreknowledge on this forum.

Foreknowledge, Foreordination: Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 1

Does God know in advance everything that people will do?

The question then arises: Is his exercise of foreknowledge infinite, without limit? Does he foresee and foreknow all future actions of all his creatures, spirit and human? And does he foreordain such actions or even predestinate what shall be the final destiny of all his creatures, even doing so before they have come into existence?

Or, is God’s exercise of foreknowledge selective and discretionary, so that whatever he chooses to foresee and foreknow, he does, but what he does not choose to foresee or foreknow, he does not? And, instead of preceding their existence, does God’s determination of his creatures’ eternal destiny await his judgment of their course of life and of their proved attitude under test? The answers to these questions must necessarily come from the Scriptures themselves and the information they provide concerning God’s actions and dealings with his creatures, including what has been revealed through his Son, Christ Jesus.​—1Co 2:16.

Predestinarian view. ...

Infinite exercise of foreknowledge? ...

Selective exercise of foreknowledge. The alternative to predestinarianism, the selective or discretionary exercise of God’s powers of foreknowledge, would have to harmonize with God’s own righteous standards and be consistent with what he reveals of himself in his Word. In contrast with the theory of predestinarianism, a number of texts point to an examination by God of a situation then current and a decision made on the basis of such examination.

Thus, at Genesis 11:5-8 God is described as directing his attention earthward, surveying the situation at Babel, and, at that time, determining the action to be taken to break up the unrighteous project there. After wickedness developed at Sodom and Gomorrah, Jehovah advised Abraham of his decision to investigate (by means of his angels) to “see whether they act altogether according to the outcry over it that has come to me, and, if not, I can get to know it.” (Ge 18:20-22; 19:1) ...

There are about 5 more paragraphs there with evidence from the bible making a case for God's selective exercise of foreknowledge rather than a predestinarian view, it's too much for this comment.
edit on 31-8-2018 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 31 2018 @ 05:15 PM
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originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: EasternShadow


Time doesn't exist outside Earth.

You don't age and grow in the afterlife. That is why God view children as special creation. Children remain children forever when they die. Forever pure and innocent. Nothing change. Because spirits don't change. How can you measure time when nothing change?

Spirit does not change or experience time.......yet it does experience change.
Have you ever changed?
You experience the body changing, you experience thoughts appearing, disappearing and different thoughts and sensations but the you that is AWARE of the changes does not ever change.
What is seeing out of those eyes never changes.

Do you feel any different than you did when you were 5, 12, 18, 30?
Old people will tell you that they do not feel any different than when they were young......it is just when they look in the mirror it can be a shock.

You miss the part where I write, "...in the afterlife."

There is no blood and flesh in the afterlife. Nothing would change the spirit. Everything is eternity except for the lawless.

Buddhism doesn't have the concept of afterlife. Even the enlightened Gautama Buddha can't answer what happen after the state of nirvana. In Buddhism, you either rebirth or cease into nothingness. Buddha called the state of nothingness as Nirvana. I called it permenant second death. Buddha called the state of Nirvana is the perfect state of ending the suffering. I called it the perfect way to have your soul destroy for eternity.

The choice is ours to make. Do you want to escape infinite rebirth cycle by becoming nothingness/dead, or do you want to live happily for eternity along with God?
edit on 31-8-2018 by EasternShadow because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 31 2018 @ 07:36 PM
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originally posted by: whereislogic
Nope. And neither does the bible teach that your life is predestined.

The Bible doesn't teach my life is predestined. It teaches some cases are predestined. Through this cases, we can conclude that God does foreknowledge and foreordains.

The bible teaches God foreknowledge everything.


originally posted by: whereislogic
Does God really ordain ahead of time what our actions and our final destiny are going to be? What does the Bible teach?

Before I answer this question, I will address your article's issues first.


originally posted by: whereislogic
MANY people feel that whatever happens to them, good or bad, has been decided by a force greater than themselves. For example, the 16th-century Reformer John Calvin wrote: “We define predestination as the eternal design of God, whereby he determined what he wanted to do with each man. For he did not create them all in the same condition, but foreordains some to everlasting life and others to eternal damnation.”

John Calvin make a huge mistake with the last sentence. God does not predestined anyone to eternal damnation.

James 1:13
Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one.

1 Timothy 4:4
For every creation of God is good, and nothing that is received with thanksgiving should be rejected,



originally posted by: whereislogic
If some force has already determined your future, then trying to take care of yourself is useless. Choosing to smoke or not to smoke would make no difference to your health or that of your children. Wearing a seat belt while riding in an automobile would have no effect on your safety. But this is faulty logic. Statistics show that people who take precautions suffer fewer fatal consequences. Carelessness can result in tragedy.

The faulty logic is to assume that we can foreknowledge our future to determined what is consider useless to ourselves. The truth is we don't know our future. The only one who knows the future is God.


originally posted by: whereislogic
Consider another line of reasoning. If God chooses to foreknow everything, then even before he made Adam and Eve, he would have known that they would disobey him. But when God told Adam that he must not eat from “the tree of the knowledge of good and bad” or he would die, did God already know that Adam would eat from it? (Genesis 2:16, 17) When God told the first couple: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth,” did he know that their wonderful prospect of life in a paradise was doomed to failure? Of course not.​—Genesis 1:28.

The first thing God said, "fill the Earth and Subdue it.." God said Earth first, then heaven. How do you fulfill this ordain if Adam and Eve remain in Eden? This shows the creation of Earth and Heaven was God Foreknowledge and Predestined of what to come in the future. Adam and Eve were to cast out of Eden, which lead to the birth and cruxifixion of Jesus in the next thousand years, to save the entire human race from God's eternal condemnation.

Do you agree, before the creation of Heaven and Earth, God already knows Jesus will be born out of a woman's womb? Isn't it the reason, why God named Jesus "the savior" and informed John the Baptist of who Jesus would be?

The first human has no choice. They do not know good and evil. Therefore, it was God who make the choice for them. Cain, Abel and the rest of humankind however IS the product of knowing good and evil, hence the freewill. Therefore, Adam and Eve is considered a unique case of God predestined.


originally posted by: whereislogic
Taken to its logical conclusion, the idea that God foreknows all decisions would mean that he is responsible for all that happens​—including wars, injustices, and suffering. Is that possible? A clear answer is provided by what God says about himself.

“You Must Choose”

God indeed said, "You Must Choose"

But before you get to the part where God said so, you must know, both Adam and Eve were never given any choice at all. Why? Because they do not know good and evil. Refer to my above reply.


originally posted by: whereislogic
The Scriptures state that “God is love” and that he is “a lover of justice.” He has always urged his people: “Hate what is bad, and love what is good.” (1 John 4:8; Psalm 37:28; Amos 5:15) On numerous occasions he encouraged his loyal ones to choose a virtuous course. For example, when Jehovah concluded a covenant with the ancient nation of Israel, he said to them, through Moses: “I do take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today, that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the malediction; and you must choose life in order that you may keep alive, you and your offspring.” (Deuteronomy 30:19) Did God establish ahead of time the choice that those individuals would make? Evidently not.

Not to everyone. But God is the one who decide the fate of Adam and Eve. God evidently did not give Jesus any choices either, right from the moment of his birth.

Because I have little space to address your article in details, I will summarize everything with short simple answers.

God foreknowledge and foreordained Jesus born and crucifixion, is an evident of God's omniscient and omnipotent. An irrefutable Biblical evidence of God's foreknowledge and foreordain. There are few other Biblical examples like 1 Sam. 23:11 and Matt. 11:21. Both verses are already given in my previous post.

However, to claim that everything is predestined is misleading. God does not tempt others for evil. God never meant to harm his creation. God did not harm Adam and Eve. Instead, God taught Adam to have patience, not to afraid of dark night and guide Adam whenever Adam fell to his grief.

Because God never will to harm his creation, it is left for us to weight what is good and what is evil ourselves. We are no longer the pure and innocent Adam and Eve. We knows what is best for us, be it is good or evil. There is no longer God's guidance through God's prophets and messiahs. Everything is already revealed on how to be in God's grace.

God create heaven and earth, for us to fill. The predestined/planned is always for us to fill heaven and earth in the glory and love of God.

But, God will not tolerate the lawless because God is also Justice. Therefore, make no mistake with God's plans. The ultimate end result is not in the hand of God. It is in our hand. God could alter the fate of those who repent but will not hesitate to show justice for those who deserve justification.

Isaiah 46:10
declaring the end from the beginning
and from ancient times things not yet done,
saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
and I will accomplish all my purpose,’

Acts 2:23
this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men.
edit on 31-8-2018 by EasternShadow because: (no reason given)







 
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