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OP/ED: USA, Inc: Executive Clemency for Executive Killers

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posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 12:31 PM
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US democracy is going down the tubes, and taking Canada along for the ride. First, individual civil liberties were sacrificed to the US Patriot Act. Then, Bush signed the Anti-Class Action bill into law last week. This so-called "Class Action Fairness Act" closes the doors of justice on ordinary people, and guarantees international corporations full freedom to prey on Americans without fear of legal consequences. As Greg Palast says, it is "nothing less than executive clemency for executive executioners." Drug maker Merck is now "safer from the widows and orphans of Vioxx victims" - CEO's like former Enron chief Ken Lay are laughing all the way to the bank - and Vioxx soon will be back on the street thanks to another pro-corporate ruling from the FDA, also last week. It all works together, part of the legal package for the coming corporate takeover of North America. Negotiations between the US, Canada and Mexico likely will be finalized within weeks, and Patriot Act II is waiting in the wings. It's gonna be a turkey shoot.


 



A key clause in the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), often overlooked, calls for the "harmonization" of US, Canadian and Mexican laws. Because the concept of "trade" was legally expanded, the laws to be harmonized go well beyond traditional 'trade' laws. Unknown to most people, laws that protect civil liberties and limit corporate freedoms are on the table.

NAFTA is corporate driven. Ordinary people are not represented in 'trade' talks, and no one negotiates to protect civil rights. As it happens, Mexico's legal system protects corporate rights over ordinary peoples' individual civil liberties, so the legal 'harmonization' leans toward Mexican law. Civil and corporate laws in the US and Canada are being changed to harmonize with Mexican laws, and meet the legal obligations for NAFTA's coming expansion. Soon, we all will enjoy Mexican-style "democracy."

Harmonization Alerts
Pesticide Harmonization
US Brokers Continental Corporate Takeover


Most Americans are confident their system will serve them, taught from grade school about the vaunted "checks and balances" built into US democracy. Few realize those checks and balances were dismantled when Bush declared war. He's been bypassing normal checks and balances and calling the shots with few contraints for almost his entire Presidency - by claiming "emergency" war measures - and using his freedom to permanently dismantle democratic and civil freedoms protected by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Want to know whats in the Patriot Act 2?
America and its last free breath
freedom-abridging and bottom line-enhancing "emergency" war measures


There also are financial consequences when a president operates without checks and balances, and with a wallet full of taxpayer "credit cards." The USA is now in debt for over $7.7 trillion dollars. Every man, woman and child in America now owes upwards of $26,000 on behalf of the government, in addition to their private debt. On top of that, lenders rightly think the US national debt is out of control, so they keep raising the interest rates, and pushing the debt even higher. Interest payments are now 2.2 billion dollars every day, and jumping every time the debt is renegotiated.

U.S. NATIONAL DEBT CLOCK



Many Americans think the new Anti-Class Action law is a good thing, and believe it protects the system from "frivolous" lawsuits. In fact, the old system protected the system from frivolous lawsuits; the new law protects corporate freedom, at the expense of the individual states' autonomy and Americans' civil liberties.





Executive clemency for executive killers

You think my accusation is over the top? Well, please talk with Elaine Levenson.

Levenson, a Cincinnati housewife, has been waiting for her heart to explode. In 1981, surgeons implanted a mechanical valve in her heart, the Bjork-Shiley, "the Rolls-Royce of valves," her doctor told her. What neither she nor her doctor knew was that several Bjork-Shiley valves had fractured during testing, years before her implant. The company that made the valve, a unit of the New York-based pharmaceutical giant Pfizer, never told the government.

At Pfizer's factory in the Caribbean, company inspectors found inferior equipment, which made poor welds. Rather than toss out bad valves, Pfizer management ordered the defects ground down, weakening the valves further but making them look smooth and perfect. Then Pfizer sold them worldwide.

...as Mrs. Levenson told me, without her lawyer and the threat of a class action tort, Pfizer would not have paid her a dime of compensation.

The tort reformers' line is that fee-hungry lawyers are hawking bogus fears, poisoning Americans' faith in the basic decency of the business community, turning us into a nation of people who no longer trust each other. But whose fault is that? The lawyers? Elaine Levenson put her trust in Pfizer Pharmaceutical. Then they broke her heart.

...A decade ago, after eighteen buildings blew up in Chicago and killed four people, I searched through the records of the local private gas company on behalf of survivors. What I found would make you sick. I saw engineers' reports, from years earlier, with maps marking where explosions would be likely to take place. The company, People's Gas, could have bought the coffins in advance.

Management had rejected costly repairs as "not in the strategic plan." It's not planned evil at work here, but the enormity of corporate structures in which human consequences of financial acts are distant and unimaginable.


Also see:

Bush Pushes to Limit Class-Action Suits





The deed is already done. Bush turned his back on America - on civil liberties, public health, veterans, farmers and jobs - and turned the USA into a corporate haven that rivals the Caymans. Corporate rights and freedoms are now enshrined as federal law, and about to be shored up under international law. Americans have few civil liberties left, and no legal recourse to fight back. Voters' rights are practically worthless - roughly equivalent to a minority shareholder's vote.

So is it time to throw in the towel? Not at all.

There are precedents. A recent Texas lawsuit shows us how to deal with corporate predators. Last October, when two companies over-charged on flu vaccines, Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott sued. He asked for all the profits to be returned, sought civil penalties under the Texas Deceptive Trade Practices Act, and requested temporary and permanent injunctions.





Texas AG Sues Drug Distributors

Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott filed suit against two distributors of the scarce flu vaccine for allegedly charging exorbitant prices to hospitals in Houston, Dallas and Sherman, in violation of state law. The suit contends the companies offered 10-dose vials, which would typically cost between $65 and $80 each, for as much as $950 and demanded cash on delivery.

The Attorney General's suit asks the court to order the companies to relinquish all profits realized from this unconscionable pricing scheme against providers. It also seeks civil penalties under the Texas Deceptive Trade Practices Act, as well as temporary and permanent injunctions.




So the solution is simple: Impeach Bush, get our money back, and tell all the corporate predators to take their mortgages on our nation and shove'em where the sun don't shine. If we don't, we are handing our nation over free to a small pack of corporate wolves. And turning our children into indentured servants.


A Military-Governmental-Industrial Conspiracy?


No, it's not a conspiracy. It's just business - and a damn good marketing strategy. Built on a special kind of free trade: people for profits.




posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 12:38 PM
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Sofi,

First off, I am honered that you used a few of my threads as referance.
And yet another excellent post


What you speak of is true, though it is hard to see through the smokescreen that is being erected as we speak. I honestly believe that if this adminstation had its way,(which I also believe it does) then we would not have a single say in the actions it takes. Obviously accountability is out the window now. Even Bush has stated as such. There is not much left for this administration left to do before it can act without impugnity.



posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 12:49 PM
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This tells it like it is. Bush does not represent the American people, he represents CORPORATE MONEY.
We seriously need to get rid of his sorry, spoiled little rich boy butt. PERMANENTLY!!



posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by Kidfinger

Obviously accountability is out the window now. Even Bush has stated as such. There is not much left for this administration left to do before it can act without impugnity.




True. They've covered their butts and cut us off at every pass. Now they own the ball-park and the country too.

But, we can stand together. We can change things back the way they're supposed to be.



PS. Thanks.



posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by soficrow

But, we can stand together. We can change things back the way they're supposed to be.



Maybe I am loosing faith. I do stand with my fellow man, but I am beginning to lose sight of how we can actually make a difference now. Every avenue for public calls for accountability have been blocked. Our local and state politicians dont listen untill three months before election time, and any out cry agianst Bush is a person targeted as treasonus or unpatriotic. I will always stand for what I think is right and I will never lose sight of my beliefs. I just think it is too late for us to do anything about it.

Hey, GG. I like the mean guy
Did you make him?



posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 12:59 PM
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Sofi, darling, please do a search of how much money the plantiff gets in such cases. You will find that its pennies as compared to the lawyers. If the money really went to the victims I would be for all the law suites. It doesn't.

Note, ken lay an every other corporate scandal is being procecuted under THIS administration. The laws were broken under Clinton who did nothing.



posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
t.

Note, ken lay an every other corporate scandal is being procecuted under THIS administration. The laws were broken under Clinton who did nothing.


They didnt exactly do nothing. Several of the accused at Enron went to court over the scandle. But, I DO agree that there was nothing done to protect the people who sufferd from their corprate greed.

This is a trend that has been growing since FDR. A little change here, and an ammendment there. Look back at the timeline of our constitution and base governing laws. There is much to be discovered there. I think the reason this administration is accredited with this is because the problem has come to a head and people are starting to notice. Bush and his administration are also responsible for more changes to our personal rights than any other president. Could have something else to do with it too.

[edit on 2/22/05 by Kidfinger]



posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 01:12 PM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
Sofi, darling, please do a search of how much money the plantiff gets in such cases. You will find that its pennies as compared to the lawyers. If the money really went to the victims I would be for all the law suites. It doesn't.

Note, ken lay an every other corporate scandal is being procecuted under THIS administration. The laws were broken under Clinton who did nothing.





DrH, honey, while it's true that some civil lawsuits benefit only lawyers, the system is there to protect democracy.

I know you're a smart man sweeetie, and I'm sure you would never (in your right mind) advocate throwing babies out with the bathwater. ...The glitches could be fixed some other way. Like, if the goal is to get people more of the money they deserve, why on earth would you tear down the whole system and stop everybody from getting anything?


Also, as you know - I won't let you make this a partisan issue. If Clinton were president now, I'd be ripping a strip off his hide.



. [kiss]



posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 01:17 PM
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I am not sure it stopped all lawsuites. Just placed them into federal court. did I miss something?

[smack back]



posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
I am not sure it stopped all lawsuites. Just placed them into federal court. did I miss something?

[smack back]






Yes you missed something. You need to get out more.


Basically, federal courts are "friendlier to business." Which means most cases won't get to court - and those that are accepted will sit waiting for years because of the backlog.

Most threatening to democracy, the move appropriates state powers and makes federal big government bigger.



Here's a good overview:

Bush Pushes to Limit Class-Action Suits



.



posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 03:22 PM
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sofi

you go girl! (assuming female)
I love your tenacity...

I was originally for the law that prevents class action suits for the same reason as Dr horacid. Class action suits are a gimick to make lawyers more rich...

BUT they at least served one good purpose... they punished the companies that tried to/ or thru negligence, cause us harm...

We could easily fix that problem with one amendment... lawyers could be prevented from taking more than standard base hours payment from a class action civil suit.

this removes the greed motivation from the case, and preserves the majority of the settlement for the claimants... (it would also prevent a frivolous case from being pursued)

the other issue of class action suits is the huge sums awarded, would often bankrupt the company and the claimants would get next to nothing...

what ever happened to the old threat of "if your company screws me, I will own you"
why not award the bankrupt company (and assets) to the suing party?

the other issues i want to address, are the Pharm issues...
there is no reason why we need to pay more for drugs sold in america, since the drug companies themselves assure us that they are the same whether bought in Canada, or the US... (or mexico?).

The pharm industry seems to have taken possesion of some integral part of the Presidents anatomy for him to be so strongly advocating for them... it is getting down right obvious...
I half expect to the see the President hawking viagra in a TV commercial soon...
disclaimer: the following fantasy commercial contains remarks unsuitable for young readers, read at your own risk:

new Pharmacuetical spokesperson President Bush:
(closeup of Bush with american flag behind him) "before i ram a missle up some camels a$$, I like to pop a viagra, because it makes me feel so young, I practically feel like i am snortin coke with my frat bras again"

next spot: (camera pans to background of Bush in a desert scene) "here in the Iraqi desert, the days are long and the nights are longer... I strive to make sure my soldiers have all the equipment they need to survive... their med kits contain plenty of Oxycodiene and Prozac. they are important parts of there daily intake of vitamins and minerals... it keeps them happy and oblivious to the danger they are in, or the reasons why they are here. If it is good enough for the soldiers... its got to be good!"
------------------------------------------------------------------
my apologies for this sarcasm break... we now return you to regularly scheduled programming...

again... great job sofi...



posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by LazarusTheLong

I was originally for the law that prevents class action suits for the same reason as Dr horacid. Class action suits are a gimick to make lawyers more rich...

BUT they at least served one good purpose... they punished the companies that tried to/ or thru negligence, cause us harm...

We could easily fix that problem with one amendment... lawyers could be prevented from taking more than standard base hours payment from a class action civil suit.




Excellent recommendation!





the other issue of class action suits is the huge sums awarded, would often bankrupt the company and the claimants would get next to nothing...

what ever happened to the old threat of "if your company screws me, I will own you"
why not award the bankrupt company (and assets) to the suing party?





Another excellent recommendation.






The pharm industry seems to have taken possesion of some integral part of the Presidents anatomy for him to be so strongly advocating for them... it is getting down right obvious...





The Bush family has been in bed with the Merck family for generations. Think I outlined it in my Merck-Vioxx post. ...But even without the family connections, the drug industry is now the largest industry in the world - surpassing even oil in profits.

...It's where the big guys play.



Thanks for the
's - back atcha.



.

[edit on 22-2-2005 by soficrow]



posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 10:07 PM
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Ancient Chinese proverb say "When you find yourself among sheep, become a wolf."


I'm just kidding about that proverb, it's just a friend of mine, not ancient at all. The point is well applied to this situation. If the enemy relies on an advantage to defeat you, deny him that advantage and you will not be defeated.

In this case, their advatage is they navigate the courts well and control the laws being handed down from Washington. They fight with words and mandates, executive orders and international accords. They are attempting to subjugate us in a civilized manner, because they have made us into a civilzed people.

There are dozens of groups retaliating in the courts, but it really is a losing battle. The only way to solve the problem is to be uncivilized. Remember the American Revolution? American patriots stopped sending the English money, confiscated their goods, refused to budge when emissaries stopped in for a chat. Eventually the British intervened militarily, and we beat them on that front too. The template is there for people to follow, if they're mad enough, they'll use it!

I'd much rather hang out and watch the whole affair, it really is better than anything on television. If the government thugs are smart, they won't try to quell the uprising when it eventually happens. I suspect they'll roll with it and get out while they still can. If they attempt to use the US Army or the Marines against their own populace, there will be severe consequences. If they think Fallujah was a tough nut to crack, wait till they tri Miami or Detroit, or Chicago. I shudder to think of how stupid they'd have to be to try.

So there's the answer for all you folks out there with a big head of steam built over the current situation. Get organized, and get walking. Washington is that way -->



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 08:11 AM
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Originally posted by WyrdeOne

If the enemy relies on an advantage to defeat you, deny him that advantage and you will not be defeated.

In this case, their advatage is they navigate the courts well and control the laws being handed down from Washington. They fight with words and mandates, executive orders and international accords.

There are dozens of groups retaliating in the courts, but it really is a losing battle. The only way to solve the problem is to be uncivilized. Remember the American Revolution? American patriots stopped sending the English money, confiscated their goods, refused to budge when emissaries stopped in for a chat. Eventually the British intervened militarily, and we beat them on that front too.

If the government thugs are smart, they won't try to quell the uprising when it eventually happens. I suspect they'll roll with it and get out while they still can. If they attempt to use the US Army or the Marines against their own populace, there will be severe consequences. If they think Fallujah was a tough nut to crack, wait till they tri Miami or Detroit, or Chicago.

Washington is that way -->




Myohmyohmy.

Sounds like you've thought about this, and analyzed the situation rather thoroughly. ...It's true that civil acces to the courts is now blocked - even if people had the money to take them on in that arena.

Are you really recommending revolution? ...Not armed, surely?



.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 09:50 AM
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I think any aspiring American patriot should study up on asymetrical warfare and give 'em hell. I don't think every action is right for every man, and I myself would never advocate violence except in defense of self or another, however people have been threatened, and people have been murdered, and everyone must do everything in their power to protect themselves and their families.

I love the law, I absolutely do. It's a wonderful invention of man (see my posts in the recent thread about a law in Honolulu about eating dogs and cats), but it has become completely unwieldy. There are so many redundant laws, more lawyers in school every year than lawyers practicing (think about that for a sec.), so many loopholes, too much corruption, too much graft, corporate favoritism and a whole host of other problems.

In short, the Justice system is broken, and more Unjust than Just. Anyone trying to navigate the legal system in its current manifestation would be well advised to tread carefully, there are sharks in them there waters. If we can fix the courts and the code, we can then use it to prosecute the criminals who hijacked the government. Hell, label them enemy combatants and we won't have to let them out until every last one of their crazy laws has been erased.

Their enforcement hinges on beat cops, federal law enforcement employees, and national guard troops, alongside private mercenaries. I think the important thing to remember that to use force does not always involve violence. Sometimes force can be more subtley brought to bear to even greater effect.

Remember when President Bush started talking about invading Iran? Russia and China both moved a signifigant number of nuclear capable, Sunburn ready fighter jets to the front lines, to their respective air force bases in Kyrgyzstan and Kashi, and Putin said this at the speech christening the new presence, "..we aim to strengthen the security of this region, whose stability is an increasingly significant factor.." He also said Russia would continue to act as "a deterrent for terrorists and extremists of ALL kinds" That Putin really has a way with words, BTW, the emphasis was his, not mine. President Bush said, the next day, on national television, he was confident a diplomatic solution could be found.


Threats are more effective than violence, because they expend less energy on the part of the attacker. Threat mechanisms are used by animals in the wild to avoid confrontation, with either a real or manufactured display of ability (the cobra's hood, the dogs rolled back lips, etc.). So it is with us humans. It's much more effective than a bite, because it saves both parties the damage of a fight.

Remember the electrical grid fiasco on the east coast? The electrical grid fiasco in Australia? That small plane that crashed into Ariel Sharons private apartment on Clinton street in Hollywood?
Those events sent a very clear message to the powers that be, and they ignored those messages for the most part, or rather, downplayed them and continued to wriggle in their chosen direction like the worms they are.


I personally don't think killing 'Temporary' Bush, or Ashcroft, or Rumsfeld, or Wolfowitz, or Rove, or any others, will do anything to stop the machine. The machine, the grinder, keeps turning as long as the Their hand is on the crank. The key is to render the machine inoperable, and then go after the hand when it moves to fix the machine.

With proper counter inteligence, which is us, now, and everyone else on the net collecting cold hard data, asymetrical warfare becomes possible, and highly effective. Find out what your enemy wants you to do and do the opposite. The enemy in this case has plans for almost every contingency, so it's a bit like tip-toe through the landmines trying to come up with a workable defense/counter attack.

The weakness of traditional politicians was public opinion. This administration has side-stepped accountability by over-representing their proponents, and refusing to acknowledge, or marginalizing, their opponents. Most of the country realizes some aspect of what's going wrong, very few people know the real extent of the problem. Even if they did, they can't get close enough to the president to talk to him or ask him the tough questions (he seems insulated even from his own stupidity).

The international community might be willing to help us reclaim our independence, the same way they helped us the first time around, against the English. I don't think it's their responsibility, but some people might ask for and be willing to accept their help. I'm sure they will be gracious enough to leave when the job is done, though I doubt many Americans would believe the goodwill until they saw it. It would be difficult to coordinate actions between local and imported resistance, because of language barriers and engendered mistrust.

The main thing they want, is for everyone to fear them. The truth is, their capabilities to supress dissent are stretched thin, and they don't have enough jail space for all of us. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, the government hijackers are looking around, nervous as hell, like plantation owners surrounded by angry 'property.'

The other thing we have on our side is youth! Those guys are freakin' old! Most of them were alive and scheming when JFK was killed, so they're only a decade or two from pushing up daisies (assuming they don't have age retardant therapy perfected).

Chances are their greed and myopia will take their lives before any patriots have a chance to slip a round in the breech. Imagine this, they go in for the experimental treatments, and it starts mutating their genes, growing and metastasizing out of control. They die a horribly painful death and we all learn a valuable lesson about balance.


The universe is on my side
I have no fear
My God is with me
My God is me

If we would dump our inhibitions, we could just wish them out of existence. If we all concentrate real hard...

I'm working on that angle, because none of the others are perfect. Basically, I gave up on any sort of movement, because they all seem to have inherent weaknesses. I make sure not to do what They want me to do, and so in theory I am winning the war. I don't shop at their stores, I don't buy their products, I don't subscribe to their magazines or their newspapers, I won't trust them with my health or my childrens education. Deny them the access to injure you, and you have made their lives very difficult.

This is (like usual from you) a big topic, and worthy of a good deal more discussion. I think many people have given up thinking of solutions, and that's surrender plain and simple. Better to acknowledge your enemies strength and use it as motivation and inspiration, rather than allow it to terrorize and subjugate you. (That's what they want, so don't allow them the satisfaction)

War does not always involve traditional weapons. No lives need be lost (no more than have already). In the case of our beloved oppressors, I think their main weakness is their hubris, it seems to consume them. That sort of weakness can be deadly, when exploited by a crafty opponent.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by WyrdeOne

With proper counter inteligence, which is us, now, and everyone else on the net collecting cold hard data, asymetrical warfare becomes possible, and highly effective. Find out what your enemy wants you to do and do the opposite. The enemy in this case has plans for almost every contingency, so it's a bit like tip-toe through the landmines trying to come up with a workable defense/counter attack.




So we deny ignorance, and keep pushing truth and knowledge... And if our corporate rulers want war in Iran - we try and block it?






This administration has side-stepped accountability by over-representing their proponents, and refusing to acknowledge, or marginalizing, their opponents. Most of the country realizes some aspect of what's going wrong, very few people know the real extent of the problem.




Again, deny ignorance and try to get the facts out... Hmmm.






The international community might be willing to help us reclaim our independence, the same way they helped us the first time around, against the English. I don't think it's their responsibility, but some people might ask for and be willing to accept their help. I'm sure they will be gracious enough to leave when the job is done, though I doubt many Americans would believe the goodwill until they saw it.





IMO - the world community can help us best by cutting Carlyle-BushCo off at the knees: Dumping our Treasury Bonds, losing the USD and basically, calling in the debt. ...It won't feel nice here at the bottom.






The truth is, their capabilities to supress dissent are stretched thin, and they don't have enough jail space for all of us. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, the government hijackers are looking around, nervous as hell, like plantation owners surrounded by angry 'property.'





Agreed, absolutely. I used to get a lot of flack and harrassment for shooting my mouth off. Now, it's petty and contained.






If we would dump our inhibitions, we could just wish them out of existence. If we all concentrate real hard...






I'm projecting and visualizing now. You with me?






This is (like usual from you) a big topic, and worthy of a good deal more discussion.





Thanks, and I know. ....It's frustrating that a piece like this that I put effort into doesn't get much attention. But 5 minute cut and paste wonders get lots of hits and responses...





I think many people have given up thinking of solutions, and that's surrender plain and simple. Better to acknowledge your enemies strength and use it as motivation and inspiration, rather than allow it to terrorize and subjugate you. (That's what they want, so don't allow them the satisfaction)




I'm with you there!






War does not always involve traditional weapons. No lives need be lost (no more than have already). In the case of our beloved oppressors, I think their main weakness is their hubris, it seems to consume them. That sort of weakness can be deadly, when exploited by a crafty opponent.







IMO - I'm not even an opponent, much less crafty. Just trying to make sure there's a decent life somewhere in my children's future. ....I also think mothers like me are in the majority.



.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 11:31 AM
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Tort reform is absolutely necessary for the health of business, big or otherwise. I'd like to know who in the world you think will pay your wages and salaries, if it isn't business. Class action lawsuits do a lot of good overall, but when lawyers make millions while those who have been harmed by poor products or negligence have to make do with a few dollars or coupons for products or services, reform is imperative.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 11:36 AM
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The best revolution is an information revolution...

deny ignorance, just like you said...


we have to be carefull, because information is a two edged sword...
the same info that can damn them, can secure them thru desensitivity to the truth...

we have to always take a stand, info that is released to the sheeples, HAS to be in the damning form...we can not say lightly "they have taken our freedoms" we have to say "THEY HAVE STOLEN WHAT MAKES AMERICA GREAT!"

with enough people educated and boycotting the process, we will be a very heavy weight around the neck of any secretly motivated company or government.

Also, on a totally different note... I had once heard a college prof ramble that the native americans need to get together and sue for the original contract that they had with our government to be upheld... "that they would own all the land between these areas, for as long as it existed..." or some such...

could we all support an effort for the land to be reverted back to the original Native American owners that have the original contracts... (you can only sell a land once, as an owner... and we "sold" it to them first)

it would make them first claimant to most of america....



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 11:54 AM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Class action lawsuits do a lot of good overall, but when lawyers make millions while those who have been harmed by poor products or negligence have to make do with a few dollars or coupons for products or services, reform is imperative.





Right. An amendment could have ensured that lawyers fees were capped.

Instead, individual civil liberties were sacrificed - again - to protect corporate rights. ...and power was taken from individual states to make federal big government bigger and more powerful.

Do you guys really think we're so stupid we can't see what's going on?









Tort reform is absolutely necessary for the health of business, big or otherwise. I'd like to know who in the world you think will pay your wages and salaries, if it isn't business.




I've been self-employed most of my life - like the growing majority of Americans. Also like the majority I know darned well the reason few companies hire full-time is so they can avoid benefits.

Big business used to be the nation's backbone, but really, don't you read the news?

We're all on our own now.



.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 12:59 PM
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so right sofi...

that was the whole basis for "trickle down" economics...

we support the companies that support us, and so forth...

then the companies we were supporting took the jobs overseas... and "TRICKLED" ALL OVER OUR A$$...

if you knew how many little towns in America make the majority of there income off meth labs/pot farms, where is used to be from tires/farms/manufactured products... you would poo a castle...

you wont find those people on welfare or unemployment (usually) because they would have to account for too much of there money... they are "on there own" in the only way they can be...

unemployment figures are conservative and look worse than htey ever have...
so companies are supporting us are they? companies like MCI that outsourced there service center... companies like GE that are manufacturing more and more in foreign countries to compete...
or governments that support us by lowering import tariffs, so that manufacturing in america becomes impossible if we keep the high pay for those jobs...

trickle down = piss on...



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