400 Million Year Old Hammer? Found in Texas

a reply to: dragonridr

I remember hearing a presentation about Creationism once, and as "evidence" the speed at which fossils can form (they claimed decades instead of millions of years), they showed a picture of and discussed a hat that was found after something like 60 years in an abandoned mine. It had been left in the stream of the cave (or some moving water source) and was calcified to point of looking like a stone hat.

People like me just looked at that and thought--yeah, my shower head can do that, too, with all of our hard water--but I just chuckled to myself as the guy kept talking.

Oh, what the hell, here you go:

This quick-forming 'stone' hat adds weight to the claims that creation scientists are correct when they say that thousands or millions of years are not needed to form rocks and fossilize animals and plants.

Answers In Genesis

And then here's a video debunking the silly claim/inferences from creationists about it, amongst other things (including the hammer in the OP).

a reply to: SlapMonkey

In this case the OP video is arguing that the 400 million year old hammer proves that there were advanced human civilisations wandering around. That's wondering around the Devonian Period, so things would have been quite different in those days! For example, the land was only starting to be populated by primitive plants, so how the hell they managed to make a wooden handle (for the hammer) we'll never know.

My first question is this: Why isn't the handle fossilized? Or completely rotted away?

400 million years old? Somehow, I doubt it.

a reply to: paraphi

That had just occurred to me as well, just after I posted.

Wiki I know it's wiki, but it'll give those who want to know more a place to start.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: manta78

Its caused by concreation minerals dissolve in water and resolidfies in another area. There is a cave i think it was in france where people hang objects and watch them turn to stone. They had bycicles dolls etc. all where encapsulated in stone. This process is not new and has been known for centuries

It's the handle of the axe that is the enigma, it's much older that the forging.

a reply to: Gothmog

It's not an oopart.
The term is used with ancient aliens theorists a lot.
When it is used by scientists it refers to objects that challenge common knowledge of technology of ancient civilizations. Or contact between civilizations that was not thought possible.
Those stories of modern objects in impossible places are just that ... Stories.
This however is something completely different again as this is manufactured but manufactured in a collaboration between humans and nature. Pretty cool on its own.

a reply to: Lumenari

I'm curious about your education now. Was that religious or academic? I've never heard of that. Except maybe in the Atlantis legends. I don't think that's the same thing though is it?

a reply to: rickymouse

Kind of like all of history no?

a reply to: manta78

Why is there no "rock" debris in the broken part of the handle ?? Why would someone clean this part so well, even the tiny cracks on the backside have nothing stuck in them.

There are a very great many of these ooparts out there, there are also story's often quite credible that are then dismissed as urban legend's by those whom BELIEVE they know that they are false without any first hand evidence they are and so will STATE categorically that they are false.

Yes that hammer could indeed by a concretion and the best example of such is the Coso Geode which turned out to be a 1920's era champion spark plug probably from a generator which was left in a stream outside an old mine, the mud and rock's from the stream were then baked onto it by the hot sun forming a concretion which dated at hundreds of millions of years old.

IF the earth is 4.35 billion years old give or take a few hundred million then there is every possibility that life could have evolved, been created or been seeded on the planet multiple time's and that the earth - the planet if you like has had MANY worlds upon it in that time, entire alien eco system's and that of course man or manlike being's could have existed before upon the planet.
It is possible and it is not - in spite of nay sayers claims to the contrary - proven to have not been the case, there is no proof that intelligent life has not existed before and the closest they can come to that is to point to a lack of evidence but then the same crowd attack any and all potential evidence that there may have been in order to push there own belief's as fact's which they are simply not they are belief's no different to those that believe there WAS intelligent life in the past.

Here are two of my favorite story's.
www.hecklerspray.com... (read the comments on this one particuarly WA McCORMICK)
www.s8int.com...

Of course the Nazi's actually definitely believed in previous cycles and previous ages of advanced civilization and indeed the Ahnenerb even sent expeditions to try to find and recover as much LOST knowledge as they could, there twist was of course racially motivated as they wanted these previous SUPERMEN to have been blond, blue eyed and German ancestor's in order to propagate there belief's.

But there are tantalizing hint's of lost science such as a glider with modern aerodynamic property's found in an Egyptian tomb, arrow heads in south america which more strongly resemble jet fighters with canard wing's than they ever do humming birds or indeed the arrow heads they are classified (they would be practically useless as arrow heads and are purely ornamental) and a great many other thing's.
2atoms.com...

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: Lumenari

I'm curious about your education now. Was that religious or academic? I've never heard of that. Except maybe in the Atlantis legends. I don't think that's the same thing though is it?

Hopi, actually.

You could I guess call what I think a religion, but it is actually just an oral history, handed down for thousands of years.

There is a visual component of the history to help keep passing it down in its original form without embellishment.

You would call them Kachina dolls.

Hope that helped....

Well technically the constituents of the metal in the hammer are as old as earth.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: Gothmog

It's not an oopart.
The term is used with ancient aliens theorists a lot.
When it is used by scientists it refers to objects that challenge common knowledge of technology of ancient civilizations. Or contact between civilizations that was not thought possible.
Those stories of modern objects in impossible places are just that ... Stories.
This however is something completely different again as this is manufactured but manufactured in a collaboration between humans and nature. Pretty cool on its own.

If one keeps a closed mind , nothing new can get in and one becomes stale.

originally posted by: seagull
My first question is this: Why isn't the handle fossilized? Or completely rotted away?

400 million years old? Somehow, I doubt it.

Petrification ?

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: JameSimon

Yeah they do

It's crazy to say they don't

www.nature.com...

There is so much evidence theynstill do it's embarrassing to have to show you the information

Somebody doesn't know how to read.

"Determining the numerical age of rocks and fossils
Unlike relative dating methods, absolute dating methods provide chronological estimates of the age of certain geological materials associated with fossils, and even direct age measurements of the fossil material itself. To establish the age of a rock or a fossil, researchers use some type of clock to determine the date it was formed. Geologists commonly use radiometric dating methods, based on the natural radioactive decay of certain elements such as potassium and carbon, as reliable clocks to date ancient events. Geologists also use other methods - such as electron spin resonance and thermoluminescence, which assess the effects of radioactivity on the accumulation of electrons in imperfections, or "traps," in the crystal structure of a mineral - to determine the age of the rocks or fossils.
All elements contain protons and neutrons, located in the atomic nucleus, and electrons that orbit around the nucleus (Figure 5a). In each element, the number of protons is constant while the number of neutrons and electrons can vary. Atoms of the same element but with different number of neutrons are called isotopes of that element. Each isotope is identified by its atomic mass, which is the number of protons plus neutrons. For example, the element carbon has six protons, but can have six, seven, or eight neutrons. Thus, carbon has three isotopes: carbon 12 (12C), carbon 13 (13C), and carbon 14 (14C) (Figure 5a)."

You can accurately date a rock and then use relative dating to date the fossil. Easy.

originally posted by: JameSimon

"Determining the numerical age of rocks and fossils
Unlike relative dating methods, absolute dating methods provide chronological estimates of the age of certain geological materials associated with fossils, and even direct age measurements of the fossil material itself. To establish the age of a rock or a fossil, researchers use some type of clock to determine the date it was formed. Geologists commonly use radiometric dating methods, based on the natural radioactive decay of certain elements such as potassium and carbon, as reliable clocks to date ancient events. Geologists also use other methods - such as electron spin resonance and thermoluminescence, which assess the effects of radioactivity on the accumulation of electrons in imperfections, or "traps," in the crystal structure of a mineral - to determine the age of the rocks or fossils.
All elements contain protons and neutrons, located in the atomic nucleus, and electrons that orbit around the nucleus (Figure 5a). In each element, the number of protons is constant while the number of neutrons and electrons can vary. Atoms of the same element but with different number of neutrons are called isotopes of that element. Each isotope is identified by its atomic mass, which is the number of protons plus neutrons. For example, the element carbon has six protons, but can have six, seven, or eight neutrons. Thus, carbon has three isotopes: carbon 12 (12C), carbon 13 (13C), and carbon 14 (14C) (Figure 5a)."

You can accurately date a rock and then use relative dating to date the fossil. Easy.

But they can never know the initial isotopic ratio, making all estimates using this method a guess work. Because the whole scientific community is under the impression that the theory of evolution is dogma, they calibrate the initial isotopic ratios to match their extremely old earth dogma. But we can never know the initial isotopic ratios of any sample. C-14 dating we are able to get the best estimates based on current levels of atmospheric C-14 concentration, but even that is subject to variability over the years - but it is still the most accurate radiometric dating method we have. Which is like saying it is the best blind basketball player on earth.

The entire narrative is a farce. Look for real empirical evidence on your own and not just the opinions of the scientists that get paid tax-payer money to pretend they discover something

a reply to: Gothmog

If it looked petrified, surely.

However, it doesn't look anything like being petrified.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Your giving us dime novel stories they used to put in the back of ripley's comics as proof of a prior alien civilization? Tell you what find out why no one went back in the mine and rested this wall. There's still mining done there today .

As far as the tower sounds like he found an unusual cave feature i was in one looked like bacon and eggs on a plate.

And the plane stuff the Egyptian plane model you mention did you know it has an eye painted on the right side of it? And one small detail a beak was painted on as well. Meaning its very likely a representation of something with eye and a beak like maybe a bird.

originally posted by: howtonhawky
Well technically the constituents of the metal in the hammer are as old as earth.

As old as long-dead star, nova, or supernova that created those elements.

Carl Sagan was not being figurative when he famously said "We are made of star-stuff."

Old stuff. Debunked long ago. It's never been verified or proved that the hammer is 400 million years old.

paleo.cc...