Islamic Terror boss urges west to "respect Islam"

Originally posted by Netchicken

We are assuming the silent muslim majority think the way we do, that violence is wrong, that Islam is peaceful, etc. But are we right in our assumptions?

That NetChicken is the 64 million dollar question.

And one that I am coming to believe that we are wrong on.

Everyone says that we can not judge the majority of muslims on the acts of a few and I agree with this. But you seldom here the Majority condemn the extremists.

Either they DO condemn it and it doesnt get the Air Time it deserves, like the good things we are doing in Iraq

OR

They dont really condemn it and in that case I can see no other option then a world war against them

Many Muslims see the western violence in the Middle East as an attack upon their religion and way of life itself. Not just fighting for political reasons. Those who believe this will take up a defensive position and keep their mouths shut as a result. Right now I see little reason for those who have such an opinion not to think this way due to how the Iraq invasion/occupation has turned out.

Originally posted by Kinja

Originally posted by JG0001
The whole story of Islam as an intolerant, hateful religion is untrue.

Please give me the addresse to a Christian Church in Saudi Arabia, maybe you have heard of Saudi Arabia... Christianity is against the law there. Its one thing to talk smack about a religion its another to lock its member in prison. Get educated!

I ain't going to blabber too much because I've seen to much of intolerence in this thread.So I'll make this counter quick.Kinja,for every religion in the planet they have their own rules and regulations you have to abide to.Yes,there is no church there in Saudi Arabia and I'll counter that with is there any mosques in the Vatican City?No right?It is because there is no need for one.There is no muslims in Vatican City and there is no Christians in Saudi Arabia.Even if there is,there are rules in each country to only allow a certain religion to be practise there.

Futhermore,some countries too have certain religions being outlawed by the government of that country.Some countries banned the practise of the Jehovah Witness because it isn't right with the law there.I don't see the difference between this situation and the one you mention.

I believe you are the one that should get educated.Education about a particular situation does not just come from a single website my friend.

You don't clean the dirt using just water.You have to scrub it too.Learn how to scrub.

Originally posted by Seekerof
Kinja?
Are you implying that all of Islam is bad, evil, of hatred?
Do you understand that every religion has its fundementalist extremist? That they are a minority, not a majority?
That they do not speak nor represent the whole of a religion or its overall beliefs?

Education in tolerance and of a religion requires more than one linking a website, Kinja. Comprende'?



seekerof

my problem is this, i cannot tell if the qu'ran says what people tell me it says becuase i cant read the origional language it was written in.

if it does indeed say that all non muslims must be converted or killed, then all muslims have to go.

can anyone who is an expert on this subject clarify this for me? thanks.

Ok it's late so I'll try to keep this brief. There are countless millions in the Islamic world who are just as peaceful, kind, and caring as any Jew or Christian. However, Islam like any other religion past or present has had more than its fair share of extremists and radicals. Unfortunately this is true of all the great religions as their have been bloody centuries under Christian rule as well. Now with this said, it's important to understand that the cause for this is not the religion itself. It is the tyrannical rulers emerging under the veil of their religion and becoming a legitimate leader of their people.

To anyone who says Islam is evil, I can only express my sympathies for your brain cells because they must be the fattest, laziest and underused and underappreciated part of your genetic makeup.

Nations under Islamic rule can be peaceful. If you don't believe this maybe you should check into the great muslim civilizations of the past after the fall of the Roman Empire (which conveniently used Christianity for more than its fair share of sinful and evil purposes). Jews and Christians alike were treated fair and equal during what I call the Mid-Centuries (600AD and up).

And when referring to the Bible (OT and NT) or the Koran keep in mind that scripture is nothing more than a political tool that these men use to subdue the populace into marching towards oblivion. Yes, this is found moreso in the case of Islam than the other religions because the scripture in Islam is more focused on a militaristic if you will approach to observance to God. What is also true is that a disproportionate number of Islamic nations are in the hands of religious zealots who use Islam to consolidate power over the people.

The point is:

"Religion in the hands of evil men throughout history has often led to the worst kind of conflict; one that does not die and only sows the roots for greater future strife". - me at 4:20am ( feel free to quote me on that :-)

To put it more bluntly (pardon the time-reference), while the Judao-Christian world (the West) has spent the last 300 years progressing in matters of intellectual Enlightenment and more sophisticated forms of governance (democracy, the importance of the separation of church and state negating the possibility of any more Christian Crusades), Islam has stayed relatively the same with no real intellectual revolution or technological progress taking place in the latter centuries. Once again, Islam was the center of culture and thought during its earlier, more glamorous days.

Now what we are seeing is a clash of a more advanced West (technologically, governmentally) that is trying to integrate its culture into the Islamic world because the West needs the Islamic world as a trading partner and active participant on the world stage. You might say that the West is returning the favor for all the Muslim cultural "invasions" that have taken place at various periods in history. So now because of globalization and the inherent need for resources that are predominantely controlled by those same Islamic nations, we have this clash of culture.

I may be forgetting several key points but it seems like I didn't keep this brief after all so here's some reading material for those who wish to educate themselves on topics of global importance before erroneously labeling a religion as "evil" or any other ignorant comment that only helps setback an already slow evolution of human thought and understanding.


This is an interesting read. I don't necessarily agree with the views expressed but it is very very interesting if you wish to understand Islam and its history and how it is playing out today.

www.insiderreport.net...

"I hope my words do not fall on deaf or 'mouse-trigger happy' ears"- me at 4:46am

~Rebel Saint~

let me rephrase my question.

Does the qu'ran say that all non muslims must be converted enslaved or killed?

if it does i have bullets to buy. thanks.

because...

To anyone who says Islam is evil, I can only express my sympathies for your brain cells because they must be the fattest, laziest and underused and underappreciated part of your genetic makeup.

if it does have thae clause i mentioned it is most certainly evil.

[edit on 22-2-2005 by jprophet420]

Please give me the addresse to a Christian Church in Saudi Arabia, maybe you have heard of Saudi Arabia... Christianity is against the law there. Its one thing to talk smack about a religion its another to lock its member in prison. Get educated!

Kinja, there are a lot of people living in this world with tunnel vision. I would like to think that I am not one of those. Christians and Muslims have lived side by side, and in peace, in many countries throughout the world and in particular the Middle East and North Africa. Do know about the Coptic Christians? Are you aware that Tariq Aziz is a Christian amongst many others. As is rightly pointed out, are there mosques in the Vatican?
As you seem to be leaning heavily toward the Christian viewpoint, (I am a Christian) what would you say in regard the Inquisition.....was this tolerance?

You can't blame Islam for inciting violence in its' more extremist followers, any more than you can blame Judaism for the current crisis in Israel.

PEOPLE use religion to get what they want. If they want your land, if they want your wife, if they want your money, they will find a way to get it, and if they can use RELIGION as a justification then they will. It's the easiest thing to claim as justification. My God is better than your God and He must be worshipped or else.

Go back as far into history as you want, religion has been used by the evil and the good alike to accomplish what they want.

You can read the Koran and see some violent passages, true. Ever read the Old Testament? Oh ye Christian soldier, go forth and bring me 1000 foreskins of your enemies? What's that about? Cut open your son to prove your love for Me?

The Crusades weren't all about Christianity vs Islam, it was LAND and MONEY and POLITICS. It always is. Religion is just a pathetic attempt at justification (like race).

When you say that Islam is a violent, evil religion, you are disparaging billions of your neighbors who mean you no harm or any ill will.

And when you DO say that, they start to harbor you ill will, or they pity you for your ignorance.


Peace, compassion and forgiveness are going to get you much farther in life than hatred and anger, but I'm not saying anything new to you devout Christian believers, right?

Isn't there a part in the Lord's Prayer that goes:

"Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us"

As a Christian nation, shouldn't the USA have brought this into the mix after 9-11, or do you get to choose between "Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" and "turn the other cheek" based on the might of your enemy?

jako

Originally posted by Jakomo

You can't blame Islam for inciting violence in its' more extremist followers, any more than you can blame Judaism for the current crisis in Israel.

PEOPLE use religion to get what they want. If they want your land, if they want your wife, if they want your money, they will find a way to get it, and if they can use RELIGION as a justification then they will. It's the easiest thing to claim as justification. My God is better than your God and He must be worshipped or else.

Go back as far into history as you want, religion has been used by the evil and the good alike to accomplish what they want.

You can read the Koran and see some violent passages, true. Ever read the Old Testament? Oh ye Christian soldier, go forth and bring me 1000 foreskins of your enemies? What's that about? Cut open your son to prove your love for Me?

The Crusades weren't all about Christianity vs Islam, it was LAND and MONEY and POLITICS. It always is. Religion is just a pathetic attempt at justification (like race).

When you say that Islam is a violent, evil religion, you are disparaging billions of your neighbors who mean you no harm or any ill will.

And when you DO say that, they start to harbor you ill will, or they pity you for your ignorance.


Peace, compassion and forgiveness are going to get you much farther in life than hatred and anger, but I'm not saying anything new to you devout Christian believers, right?

Isn't there a part in the Lord's Prayer that goes:

"Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us"

As a Christian nation, shouldn't the USA have brought this into the mix after 9-11, or do you get to choose between "Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" and "turn the other cheek" based on the might of your enemy?

jako

Except this is 2005. And Islame is still in 622. That can be blamed on them.

Originally posted by JG0001
Please give me the addresse to a Christian Church in Saudi Arabia, maybe you have heard of Saudi Arabia... Christianity is against the law there. Its one thing to talk smack about a religion its another to lock its member in prison. Get educated!

Kinja, there are a lot of people living in this world with tunnel vision. I would like to think that I am not one of those. Christians and Muslims have lived side by side, and in peace, in many countries throughout the world and in particular the Middle East and North Africa. Do know about the Coptic Christians? Are you aware that Tariq Aziz is a Christian amongst many others. As is rightly pointed out, are there mosques in the Vatican?
As you seem to be leaning heavily toward the Christian viewpoint, (I am a Christian) what would you say in regard the Inquisition.....was this tolerance?

LOL Just the address is all...


..as far as the Vatican goes... is there a mosque in your house? surely you would be willing to give up a room in your home for a mosque to be built. The Vatican is probably smaller than the Grand Mosque in Mecca. They are not a populated country; they are a few buildings with the sovereignty of a nation. Nice try though.

Originally posted by Kinja..as far as the Vatican goes... is there a mosque in your house? surely you would be willing to give up a room in your home for a mosque to be built. The Vatican is probably smaller than the Grand Mosque in Mecca. They are not a populated country; they are a few buildings with the sovereignty of a nation. Nice try though.

Yes.In every muslims house that is a room or area specially dedicated as a mosque for your own prayer and every muslim's house is as though their own heaven and mosque.Bet you didn't know that.Goes to show you don't know more than just that little cheap scrap of information you got from some anti-Islamic website.

And yes,you have not answer my question on whether there's a mosque in the Vatican City?Jocking around for position without paying much attention to my question isn't going to prove you're right.

Guess your ignorance has contaminated your mind and cloud your brain.

Originally posted by Heartagram

Originally posted by Kinja..as far as the Vatican goes... is there a mosque in your house? surely you would be willing to give up a room in your home for a mosque to be built. The Vatican is probably smaller than the Grand Mosque in Mecca. They are not a populated country; they are a few buildings with the sovereignty of a nation. Nice try though.

Yes.In every muslims house that is a room or area specially dedicated as a mosque for your own prayer and every muslim's house is as though their own heaven and mosque.Bet you didn't know that.Goes to show you don't know more than just that little cheap scrap of information you got from some anti-Islamic website.

And yes,you have not answer my question on whether there's a mosque in the Vatican City?Jocking around for position without paying much attention to my question isn't going to prove you're right.

Guess your ignorance has contaminated your mind and cloud your brain.

Vatican City is 13 buildings in Rome surrounded by a wall. There is no law against practicing Islam. They do not arrest Muslimes, Visiting Muslimes can use St. Peters bascilica.

Vatican City: Land Area: 0.44 sq. KM
Grand Mosque: Land Area: 0.309 sq KM
Saudi Arabia: Land Area: 1,960,582.0 sq. KM

Keep trying!

please answer my question:
DOES THE QU'RAN INDEED SAY THAT ALL NON MUSLIMS MUST BE CONVERTED, ENSLAVED, OR KILLED?

if it does then yes islam is a fundamentally evil religion, like it or not.

im not defending christianity or any religion, i am asking about one. Im not saying that islam is better or worse, only if it makes that statement.

thank you.

Originally posted by jprophet420
please answer my question:
DOES THE QU'RAN INDEED SAY THAT ALL NON MUSLIMS MUST BE CONVERTED, ENSLAVED, OR KILLED?

if it does then yes islam is a fundamentally evil religion, like it or not.

im not defending christianity or any religion, i am asking about one. Im not saying that islam is better or worse, only if it makes that statement.

thank you.

QU'RAN [5, 51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

If Jews and christians are believers, they are not allowed to have jews or christians as friends. If they are not believers then...

QU'RAN[48, 13] And whoever does not believe in Allah and His Apostle, then surely We have prepared burning fire for the unbelievers.

Believe who ya want...

Just wondering, which version of the Qu'ran is that?
I mean there are litterally hundreds of variations.

Originally posted by jprophet420
please answer my question:
DOES THE QU'RAN INDEED SAY THAT ALL NON MUSLIMS MUST BE CONVERTED, ENSLAVED, OR KILLED?

There isnt a single verse that says that.
There are hundreds that say there is no compulsion in religion, murder of innocent is sin, christians and jews are believers, Torah and Bible are holy books, etc, etc.
I suggest you read it yourself.

What Kinja has posted would get him an F for his "book report" in any school: two verses taken out of context from two completely different stories and chapters and his judgement is solely based on that. And even in those verses it doesnt say that all christians and jews should be killed or converted. ("We" in the Qur'an refers to God, btw, NOT humans, so quoting verse in which God says what happens to unbelievers is pointless in this case, since you are asking what humans are allowed to do, not to mention that the deffinition of "unbelievers" is not what Kinja is implying). I bet I can make any book ever written into anything I want that way.

Originally posted by devilwasp
Just wondering, which version of the Qu'ran is that?
I mean there are litterally hundreds of variations.

University of Michigan translation, from their 8 million book library www.hti.umich.edu...

heres 3 more translations from University of Southern California:

YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.
SHAKIR: O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

YUSUFALI: And if any believe not in Allah and His Messenger, We have prepared, for those who reject Allah, a Blazing Fire!
PICKTHAL: And so for him who believeth not in Allah and His messenger - Lo! We have prepared a flame for disbelievers.
SHAKIR: And whoever does not believe in Allah and His Messenger, then surely We have prepared burning fire for the unbelievers.

Well, it does in FACT say in the LAWS OF ISLAM that all non-believers must be converted or killed. That's a VERY peaceful religion, don't 'ya think?

It is interesting on this very site how many people tell us not to judge the whole religion on a few men - I ask you this:

That has little to do with this - why? Because A TERRORIST is saying TO RESPECT THEM. Now, I don't know, but doesn't this make you say: "WTF?"

Originally posted by paperclip
What Kinja has posted would get him an F for his "book report" in any school: two verses taken out of context from two completely different stories and chapters and his judgement is solely based on that. And even in those verses it doesnt say that all christians and jews should be killed or converted. ("We" in the Qur'an refers to God, btw, NOT humans, so quoting verse in which God says what happens to unbelievers is pointless in this case, since you are asking what humans are allowed to do, not to mention that the deffinition of "unbelievers" is not what Kinja is implying). I bet I can make any book ever written into anything I want that way.

Go ahead and put them in context for us you have our utmost attention,

Paperclip... why do you mock the Prophet Jesus Christ [PBUH] in your signature?