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posted on Jun, 11 2018 @ 01:01 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

Do you believe that the USAF and USN could use an overhaul of the system in terms of giving more incentives to keep maintenance crews around longer and to provide them with more spare parts?

How much money do you think is needed for this effort? Just a guesstimate... like what a few billion $ a year extra would be plenty to really address most of these issues?




posted on Jun, 11 2018 @ 01:11 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

Oh and just for fun here are two really cool links I just dug up. Worth the read just for the history lessons.

Meet Northrop's XST

Why the F-19 Rumor Persists



posted on Jun, 11 2018 @ 01:12 PM
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a reply to: muzzleflash

Short term, they are probably looking at $2-3B just for the incentives, to either bring people back, or get people to stay. They need a better parts system, but the two biggest issues as far as that goes are the fleet age, and the fighter mafia.

The prevailing attitude has always been "fighters first", which is why we have 60 year old tankers and bombers that will be pushing 100 by the time they're all retired. And aircraft you can't get parts for. To keep them flying and make the parts situation better, they simply replace the bits they don't have parts for (such as the engines).

Then you get these new guys that join and go through tech school (and frequently get to their first unit with a "I know everything" attitude), that quickly find out they were given barely enough training to not get themselves or anyone else killed, and their unit is supposed to refine them. Only the guys left after the old timers left don't want anything to do with them or training them, because "that's what schools are for" and "it ain't my job to teach them".

And we end up here, where planes are literally falling out of the sky. We're currently at a six year high for accidents and deaths, and there's no sign of it getting better.



posted on Jun, 11 2018 @ 01:17 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

If even I know about this and understand how incredibly important an issue it is and that it needs to be addressed asap, what is going on with management that is preventing them from getting this issue resolved?

Do we actually need the President himself to make a big stink about it and get Congress to send over a few billion with an express "you can only use this for the maintenance of aircraft" reservation attached?



posted on Jun, 11 2018 @ 01:19 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

I know. I was just giving an example of why I agree with you. I was one of the victims of the "body fat" bit. I was 6'-1" weighed 234. I was offered a tryout for the Jacksonville Bulls, the USFL team. I was always at the top end for PT but because my neck, chest and waist didn't line up with a chart that was that. I wasn't allowed to re-enlist. The funny part was one of the guys in my squadron was the same way and had to get out. Two years later he finished second in the Mr. Florida bodybuilding competition.



posted on Jun, 11 2018 @ 01:36 PM
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a reply to: JIMC5499

We had a guy like that. He was about 5 foot nothing, and could have been used to tow our C-135s. We were folding the tail on one of the EC-135s to change an HF coupler, and the crane operator left some slack, so when it started over, it fell fast, then stopped. Everyone was talking about how fast they were about to run, he pipes up with, "I don't know why you were worried. I would have caught it." I believed him. Heh.



posted on Jun, 11 2018 @ 01:38 PM
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a reply to: muzzleflash

Congress is about to spend probably $100M on hearings and an independent committee to investigate. They can funnel that money to me and I can sabre them a ton of money. The people involved in the initial sequestration cuts flat out said they made no plans on what to cut, until the bill went into effect, so had to cut fast, and went straight to maintenance.



posted on Jun, 11 2018 @ 02:08 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

But I bet everybody is current on their Sensitivity and Sexual Harassment training. I belong to some private Facebook pages where some of the Navy's maintainers talk about what is really going on.



posted on Jun, 11 2018 @ 02:14 PM
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a reply to: JIMC5499

Same here with some Air Force pages. I don't think I've ever seen it this bad. A lot of it is just the attitude. One group someone will post pictures where a 3 level screwed up, and people just hammer the guy that screwed up.
edit on 6/11/2018 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 11 2018 @ 02:17 PM
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a reply to: JIMC5499

Flight physicals always confused me! I was 6ft 2inches and 185 while on active duty. I had no problems flying in conus but in Vietnam the doctors were nuts. I had contracted a bug and my weight fell to 165. I went to the dispensary for some medication just to have the doctor tell me that I was coming close to my weight limit and may be pulled from flight status. I told him that the max for my height was 198 lbs. Never understood that... He didn't ground me just pissed me off. Maybe he had too many cocktails with the general...he was seeing two of me.



posted on Jun, 11 2018 @ 02:25 PM
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Few years back when the USAF started a direct hire program, bunch of the crew chief groups discussed it, the consensus seemed to be I would rather live in a card board box under a bridge than work in the air force again.

As for the 3 level hammering, when they killed "hazing", we lost the chance to teach people that you give them a hard time for a bit then welcome them into the club of the mentally deranged. (flight line maintenance)

So kids hearing the old stories just give new people a hard time and never learned about accepting the new meat.

Also with EPR's today you cannot stay in unless your ready to F your buddy, the USAF has done a wonderful job of nurturing and teaching people how to screw over your co-workers.

Lastly... social media, people are idiots on social media, if the first 50 blast some kid, the next 50 will dog pile on. I rarely comment on those bad safety wire jobs, or gawd awful sealent jobs, because well the supervisor screwed the pooch.. or the more experienced guy or gal out there didnt do their job with the new airmen.

One of the first things I learned as a supervisor was the new guy doesnt wipe their butt without me checking to make sure they aren't screwing things up. When they do screw the pooch you correct them, and show them the right way, once they have gone long enough without screwing up you then let them do the job without breathing down their necks. This is something else I have seen fall by the wayside in the last 18 years or so.



posted on Jun, 11 2018 @ 02:37 PM
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a reply to: buddah6
Funny part is that when I went in I was 6" 176 lbs. Between Boot Camp, Aircrew and Search and Rescue Swimmer school I went to the 234 lbs. I went home on my first leave the high school football coach cried. One of the Gym teachers, who was a bit of a bully asked me if I held a grudge for the things he did to me in his class? I said yes and he made himself scarce. Three of us once changed a helicopter engine without a hoist. Under their standards 75% of your pro athletes would have been over the limit.



posted on Jun, 11 2018 @ 04:02 PM
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a reply to: Irishhaf

So do you think there are a lot of social / cultural factors that are causing a lot of potential mechanics to shy away from bothering with USAF or USN work?

What do you think needs to be done to improve the social atmosphere to bring people back or attract new mechanics, and what parts of the culture in the service should be done away with (e.g. hazing)?

Could you guys give more information about what works or doesn't work in regards to the Enlisted Performance Report process (and any ideas on how to improve this process)?

What types of issues can be solved in regards to Supervisor conduct and how can this be improved upon?



posted on Jun, 11 2018 @ 04:10 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

I have become increasingly concerned about these issues over the last few years as I see more and more negative reports coming out about maintenance and parts acquisition in the USAF and USN.

In fact I am so concerned as of today that I have decided that I will craft a very professional and formal letter sometime this summer designed to convey some suggestions and ideas and aim it at every Senator in Congress. I will lobby for this situation to improve via this type of old fashion correspondence.

And I'm not going to listen to anyone who says that it will not work or that our Senators will ignore my letters. I am going to believe that what I am going to do will help make a difference. I have to do something about this and I believe that writing these individuals in a very positive, productive, and formal way will be my best bet.

I trust that you guys here can offer me some really good ideas that I can include in this short letter. Whenever I finish crafting it later this month - early next month I'll share the draft with everyone and see if you guys think I should make any corrections. I will also be suggesting that anyone else out there ought to take the initiative to do something similar.

We gotta get this changed. I just cannot accept seeing this. It's time to plan and act.
I will do my part as a citizen.



posted on Jun, 11 2018 @ 04:17 PM
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a reply to: muzzleflash

That approach certainly can't hurt anything. Kudos for being willing to try something. I'll post some suggestions later on when I have more time.



posted on Jun, 11 2018 @ 04:21 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

Since proposing a Bill unto itself is far too much of a hassle, I will be suggesting to these Senators to add a Rider into another unrelated Bill that can at least provide some assistance in some way or another.

I believe that if I speak to our Representatives that I can touch their Hearts and convince them that it's time to start discussing and implementing some bigger and longer term solutions to this situation.

I realize that a lot of people are already working towards this but I also realize that I need to pitch in here because this is where I'm needed the most and I gotta make my time count for something important.

I'm upset because I think that this can be solved easily if we just focus on it and get our government to do the right thing. All of the other issues plaguing the world are complicated and challenging, but this is something we can fix and I don't see how anyone could be against it.



posted on Jun, 11 2018 @ 04:23 PM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: muzzleflash

That approach certainly can't hurt anything. Kudos for being willing to try something. I'll post some suggestions later on when I have more time.


Thanks. I'm a little pressed for time currently as well, I've got a new job with this real estate company and I'm trying to get a few things accomplished today before I run outta time. I'm having fun though!

This (writing our Senators) will be one of my projects this month and I'm gonna make it count.
edit on 6/11/2018 by muzzleflash because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 11 2018 @ 09:25 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

All F-15's out of Okinawa have been grounded temporarily
F-15's in Okinawa
edit on 6112018 by HomeyKXTA because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 11 2018 @ 09:49 PM
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originally posted by: HomeyKXTA
a reply to: Zaphod58

All F-15's out of Okinawa have been grounded temporarily
F-15's in Okinawa


Let's hope Kim n Trump get along tomorrow!!

This N Korea peace deal is so important!!



posted on Jun, 11 2018 @ 10:28 PM
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a reply to: muzzleflash

A deal with North Korea dismantling it's nuclear program is not as important as many would think when it comes to a surrender from NK.
Let's not forget North Korea has enough (hundreds of communist era, howitzer like weapons) low grade ordinance pointed at Seoul to level large areas, with low estimates of ~30,000 dead if they were to unleash those munitions, nevermind nuclear arms.
It would create chaos on so many levels it's not even funny.
Even our entire Air Force couldn't deter such an assault against such a close ally. THAAD included.
Nuclear deterance(sp) is an easy bargaining chip for NK.
They still have Seoul in their sights....

Heres an example
edit on 6112018 by HomeyKXTA because: (no reason given)



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