The Follies of Activism

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: bastion
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Might want to look into UK politics, had plenty an Early Day Motion and submitted evidence to the Information Commisioner and Parliamentary Select Committees. How do you think Parliament works, or PMQs, Council, Police and Comunity Together Acts meetings, Parish Councils, Local Authorities etc.. function? Do you think they just make up the laws, institutions and legislation out of thin air?

Parliament was only created due to activism. Look into the Preston Riots, Trade Unions, etc... pretty much every right and freedom has been achieved via activism in the move from feudalism to present day. None were willingly given.

Activism is integral for a government to give the slightest # in what the public think, it's also integral to creating dialogue and reaching some form of solution and political progression. Political apathy achieves nothing except breeding ignorance and allowing them to get away with anything, we'd still be peasants.

Activism is peripheral and secondary to the people actually in there making decisions, signing legislation, being elected to office.

Saying that activism is peripheral and secondary is indeed admitting that it is instrumental and not folly.

Agreed.
Activism, protest and civil disobedience is an important tool in any free society. Electing a government every 4 years is not sufficient to ensure that government carries out the wishes of the people.
I am proud of my activism and I won't be changing anytime soon, I am no peasant and will never be a submissive citizen lamely accepting government decisions when they are wrong.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: bastion
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Might want to look into UK politics, had plenty an Early Day Motion and submitted evidence to the Information Commisioner and Parliamentary Select Committees. How do you think Parliament works, or PMQs, Council, Police and Comunity Together Acts meetings, Parish Councils, Local Authorities etc.. function? Do you think they just make up the laws, institutions and legislation out of thin air?

Parliament was only created due to activism. Look into the Preston Riots, Trade Unions, etc... pretty much every right and freedom has been achieved via activism in the move from feudalism to present day. None were willingly given.

Activism is integral for a government to give the slightest # in what the public think, it's also integral to creating dialogue and reaching some form of solution and political progression. Political apathy achieves nothing except breeding ignorance and allowing them to get away with anything, we'd still be peasants.

Activism is peripheral and secondary to the people actually in there making decisions, signing legislation, being elected to office.

Saying that activism is peripheral and secondary is indeed admitting that it is instrumental and not folly.

Agreed.
Activism, protest and civil disobedience is an important tool in any free society. Electing a government every 4 years is not sufficient to ensure that government carries out the wishes of the people.
I am proud of my activism and I won't be changing anytime soon, I am no peasant and will never be a submissive citizen lamely accepting government decisions when they are wrong.

Don't ever change. I find it humorous when I speak with government representatives to explain to me the reasoning behind the procedures and policies they ask me to follow, and so far in the last forty years of asking, most of them reply the same way, that they don't know why. I will always question the reasoning or motivation behind government leadership because from observation it is seriously flawed.

a reply to: bastion

Not sure how writing letters, Satchya Graha or striking where you still provide the service but don't charge customers a penny comes under violent coercion.

You're literally "continuing on a long legal process" to ban something you disagree with, putting businesses and livelihoods at your authoritarian mercy.

a reply to: InTheLight

How was Rosa Parks violent or implemented coercion? Actually, it was the anti-protestors to equality that were violent to the peaceful protestors in this instance.

Rosa Parks did the right thing by living as if a woman could sit at the front of a bus after a hard day's labour. The activists in this specific case were the "anti-protesters".

originally posted by: InTheLight
I will always question the reasoning or motivation behind government leadership because from observation it is seriously flawed.

I massively agree
The more of us who question things then the better chance we have as people.
I love the tactics of the member Bastion, legal routes and challenging government through official channels, as I said on the last page I'd call that 'managerial' activism, while I would be more of a foot soldier on the front line facing extendable batons from police.
We are both interdependent as people fighting injustice and bad government though, just different styles.
Monsanto would have won in the UK without us destroying their test crops, that is certain, there were no legal avenues to go down, and again, the government knew that as well so they didn't crack down on us, just token arrests and released a few hours later in the main.
I was a persistent offender though so after many arrests, and a few formal police cautions, I knew I would eventually be charged. But even then, the two times I ended up in court I got lame fines of £200 which I paid off at £10 per week lol. Even the magistrates didn't really punish us, nobody wanted GM crops grown in the UK but the 'establishment' couldn't admit it in public for either trade law or political reasons.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

We are both interdependent as people fighting injustice and bad government though, just different styles.

By protesting a private company and attempting to dictate who they can or can not associate with? You openly appeal to the government to dictate private affairs, not fight injustice and bad government. That's statism.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I don't care mate, we beat one of the most powerful corporations in the world and GM crops are not grown in the UK. We had overwhelming support from the public, the police even, and our government which didn't crack down on us destroying crops.
Our organic farms remain untainted from cross pollination and it is one of the biggest victories I've ever been involved in...and yes I'm proud of it.

Now, what country are you from again? Why won't you say?
I'm only asking so it can help me understand why you are such a submissive peasant.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

I don't care mate, we beat one of the most powerful corporations in the world and GM crops are not grown in the UK. We had overwhelming support from the public, the police even, and our government which didn't crack down on us destroying crops.
Our organic farms remain untainted from cross pollination and it is one of the biggest victories I've ever been involved in...and yes I'm proud of it.

Now, what country are you from again? Why won't you say?
I'm only asking so it can help me understand why you are such a submissive peasant.

I know you don't care, but your behavior and pride contradicts your statement that you fight injustice and bad government, because your behavior is unjust and statist.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Lol, no it doesn't.
I fight injustice and whatever I think is not beneficial to my people.
You however admit you'd bow to a monarch before joining fellow citizens in a common cause. You are a weak peasant at best, and if you were from the US they'd still have race segregation if people were like you. Women wouldn't have the vote etc etc.
You are weak and subservient.

...now, what country are you from? Why are you refusing to answer? It's not like anyone can find you from naming your country. You've criticised mine in this thread, I want to compare mine with yours, but you seem scared to say?
Unsurprising as you are too scared to fight for any causes.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

My authoritarian mercy, oh please..... Caudrilla broke the law and local democracy by bribing the government after the local council voted twice to ban it and took Caudrilla to court. David Cameron overulled this, they broke the constitution and removed all local government and local people's say. 87% of locals are against fracking as we're on a World Heritage Site, it's caused earthquakes, Caudrilla's secret reports show the sites aren't going to turn a profit as the quality is too low grade to make fracking in the wells in England and Scotland so far are expected to cost 127% to extract. None of that would have made it public without auditing their records.

Is exposing companies breaking the law and democracy a bad thing? Is holding them to account authoritarian?

a reply to: bastion

But but but...you should be a subservient peasant, not daring to question authority and big business!


EDIT
I think I'm more the kind of activist which the OP objects to. Monsanto broke no laws but we did, criminal damage and trespass while destroying test crops. Similarly, disrupting fox hunts and fighting with huntsmen, they were not breaking any laws because it was legal to chase a fox for hours on horseback for a laugh back in those days.
It's a fine line and direct action is needed sometimes, especially if there is no legal recourse such as the above examples.

a reply to: bastion

Is exposing companies breaking the law and democracy a bad thing? Is holding them to account authoritarian?

No, but favouring or enforcing strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom is. Taking a company to to court over "Fracking in Lancashire" is the authoritarianism I am speaking about. As I've stated, there are far better avenues of fighting fracking that do not involve coercion and attempting to limit the rights of others, such as providing an alternative.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

But but but...you should be a subservient peasant, not daring to question authority and big business!

The authorities are the government. Companies are private entities. Well done.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

But but but...you should be a subservient peasant, not daring to question authority and big business!

The authorities are the government. Companies are private entities. Well done.

Thanks, I was quite pleased with our result, no GM crops grown in the UK, and pure organic farms free from cross pollination.

...now, what country are you from again? You criticised mine, I'd like to compare. Why are you too scared to answer that?

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Thanks, I was quite pleased with our result, no GM crops grown in the UK, and pure organic farms free from cross polination.

...now, what country are you from again? You criticised mine, I'd like to compare. Why are you too scared to answer that?

I'm Canadian.

One isn't free to grow GM crops, even though GM foods are safe and beneficial to humanity. Sounds like hell.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Hell? Lol, far from hell, people power works in the UK, and PMSL, Canada lost the battle with Monsanto years ago...how's your bee populations doing?
Off-topic so don't feel obliged to answer, but Canada is like everyone's lapdog, no wonder you hate activism.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Hell? Lol, far from hell, people power works in the UK, and PMSL, Canada lost the battle with Monsanto years ago...how's your bee populations doing?
Off-topic so don't feel obliged to answer, but Canada is like everyone's lapdog, no wonder you hate activism.

I hate activism because of self-righteous, self-loathing mobs such as the ones you congregate with.

Yes, criticize my government how you wish. I do the same. Actually I despise the Canadian government. Still, not as bad as the nanny-state known as the UK, where there is one camera for every 11 citizens. Smile; you're on camera.

Oh, and bee populations are on the rise, plus we get to grow what we want.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Lol, you bow to the monarch and hate activism, what a subservient peasant you are.
...oh and cameras, outside of big cities it's not much of a thing. I don't live in a city, but to be honest, cameras protect the public from authority, they know they are filmed as well.

You can't grow organic food once that cross pollination issue reaches a tipping point. All organic farms are safe in the UK, unlike Canada's.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Lol, you bow to the monarch and hate activism, what a subservient peasant you are.
...oh and cameras, outside of big cities it's not much of a thing. I don't live in a city, but to be honest, cameras protect the public from authority, they know they are filmed as well.

You can't grow organic food once that cross pollination issue reaches a tipping point. All organic farms are safe in the UK, unlike Canada's.

You protest freedom in favour of government-sanctioned safety and regulation, but only because you are unable to offer any alternative. What a coddled little boy.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Lol, you bow to the monarch and hate activism, what a subservient peasant you are.
...oh and cameras, outside of big cities it's not much of a thing. I don't live in a city, but to be honest, cameras protect the public from authority, they know they are filmed as well.

You can't grow organic food once that cross pollination issue reaches a tipping point. All organic farms are safe in the UK, unlike Canada's.

You protest freedom in favour of government-sanctioned safety and regulation, but only because you are unable to offer any alternative. What a coddled little boy.

Coddled?! LMAO, the state has arrested me many times for protesting and civil disobedience. It is you who is the subservient peasant, too scared to question authority or big business.
Even your head of state is a foreign hereditary monarch, that is funny as #.
No, we are way more free in the UK, we beat Monsanto, and you didn't.