The crisis no one talks about

originally posted by: Ddrneville
The problem IMO is the 2 parents working generation, the kids are very often left by them selfs an can do whatever they want, ad internet an social networking,et voila, disaster waiting to happen.....

That’s exactly what it is. Add to that they don’t eat proper meals because the parents are working too late. Nobody eats dinner at 5 pm anymore.
There’s no structure.

I'm glad you brought this topic up

IMO feminist have destroyed the fanily unit. For some reason its bad for moms to be good mothers feminist want them to have jobs competing in male dominant positions and its making women very unhappy

As a 33 year old who's a carpenter and full time student the last 2-3 years ive been totally disgusted with the dating scene. Almost every single woman I meet within my age criteria 25-38 has multiple children that aren't being fathered at all and when you try to discipline them the mother doesnt like it

Ive also met a lot of women who have had kids with men they knew they didn't want them involved in their life but had kids with them because of genetics. Then they try and find decent people like me to father them.

I ran into this thing called MGTOW a few weeks ago literally like 3-4 weeks randomly on YouTube just clicking through videos.

I totally get where these people are coming from and ive decided to join the movement.

I blame this new wave of feminism and lack of judeo Christian values and the rejection of the traditional family unit.

Our culture is very anti masculine.

One the biggest topics in the MGTOW movement is the court system and how men are essentially railroaded with alimony and child support and how women take full advantage of this system to vindictively ruin the lives of people.

For me this is the biggest reason I'm still single and without a kid. I've watched every single of my friends who had a kid life ripped a part with this system and I'm not risking it.

a reply to: dug88

Thanks for sharing.

It is worth talking about.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

I don't think it much matters.

They crapped in the nest, destroyed it like a bunch of cuckoos, and moved on. Now they've decided that such a thing as traditional values are conservative and they've declared war on that too.

Even if I wanted to think I was some kind of feminist, there is no place for me. For one thing, I don't believe in abortion except in the most extreme circumstances, so I don't belong to their mythical sisterhood.

Feminists are toxic and part of what's wrong with our society right now. Like everyone else pushing for more, they don't stop to think about whether or not they should; instead it's only about whether or not they can and more power for them while they're at it.

a reply to: ketsuko

I don't think it much matters.

So you like painting people with a broad brush, even when it doesn't fit?

Even if I wanted to think I was some kind of feminist, there is no place for me. For one thing, I don't believe in abortion except in the most extreme circumstances, so I don't belong to their mythical sisterhood.

I've long been against abortion. But I'm also pro-choice. That's because "pro-choice" simply means that it should be up to the individual woman to decide and not up to politicians to decide for them. My solution is to work on the reasons why women feel the need to have abortions in the first place. That includes things like being impregnated through rape; so I propose that having a zero-tolerance policy towards rapists can drastically reduce abortions from these. That also includes unwanted pregnancies; which is one reason why I believe that widespread access to low cost contraceptives will reduce the number of abortions from unwanted pregnancies. This also includes pregnancies where the woman's health is in danger; therefore I propose that we improve our health care programs until "death by childbirth" becomes a relic of the past. Etc etc etc

Ironically, this highlights one of the biggest reasons why I simply can't work with supposed-conservatives on social issues. Clearly I disagree with them on other issues, but even on the issues where we should be in agreement, I completely disagree with their contradictions. Time & time again I hear supposed-conservatives say they want more freedom & that govt should stay out of people's lives; yet they have no problem with govt mandating people's personal lives when it fits their cause.

And to make matters worse, many of them claim to be anti-abortion which implies they want those mothers to bear those children, yet they turn around and consistently cut social programs & school funding programs that would help those new mothers raise those children. And of course, I don't think I ever hear anything about them actually trying to work on the root causes for abortions like the 3 examples I mentioned earlier. That's why I agree with the concept that a lot of conservatives aren't pro-life, they're pro-birth. Because they seemingly don't give a crap about the kids after they're born, and they seemingly don't care about the life of the would-be mothers, either.

a reply to: dug88

I don't see this trend changing any time soon. I'm glad I only have girls.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
Oh & for the record, Pakistan has already had female Heads of State, which is something that the US still hasn't done.

She was assassinated, for the record. Allegedly by the Pakistani Taliban, and we know what the Taliban think of women.

Oh you're going to ignore the US-backed military-led coup that took her out of power?

Agreed, but it's an apologist who thinks that women and girls should be deprived basic rights because their (male) society dictates. When it comes to human and woman's rights we should not hesitate to tell these countries that their societal norms are backward.

The US is a country that openly breaks most Judeo-Christian religious rules, has some of the worst fitness levels on the planet, has a war based economy that literally needs constant war in order to survive, has a norm of "collateral damage" where we literally justify killing civilians as if it doesn't matter, has an obsession with imprisoning people (roughly 5% of the world's population yet 25% of the world's imprisoned population), is full of addicts of various legal and illegal drugs, puts its elders in nursing homes instead of honoring them, etc etc etc. We have literally no moral standing yet have the audacity to claim that our norms are superior to others? L.O.L.

Yet your words are where the real problem comes in. You clearly don't know about the feminist movements in those regions and you've have made it clear that you don't care about their priorities. Yet you think that they should blindly obey your idea of what norms are right or wrong. lol

For example, do you even know why so many females in the rural areas in many African countries don't get formal schooling? And as a follow up, do you know why simply opening more schools or threatening sanctions won't change the situation?

And as another example, do you know what the Umma is? The Qur'an doesn't once mention circumcision, much less mandate it for anyone to become a Muslim. But many Muslim communities require circumcision as one of the requirements for people to be acknowledged as "true" Muslims. Well some groups go further than that and claim that Muslim women are below Muslim men because they aren't circumcised. So as you'd expect, some other groups go even further and require females to also get circumcised in order to be acknowledged as full fledged Muslims. Hence "female genital mutilation"/"female circumcision", which is seen as an equal treatment/equal responsibility issue, with some women supporting it and others opposing it. And remember, the Qur'an doesn't say a single thing about circumcision.

So going by your mindset, what stops China and some other Asian countries from claiming that the West is abusing males and male rights by requiring male genital mutilation aka "male circumcision"? Whose "norms" get to be dictated to the rest of the world like that?

a reply to: midnightstar

Got any facts to back that up? Because here are some links full of facts that prove my point.

Crime and gender: A partial explanation for why men commit more crime

Gender and Crime - Differences Between Male And Female Offending Patterns

The FBI's accumulated stats for 2012 (look up any year you want)

Even if you don't want to believe them and just want to use anecdotal evidence, then think about the terrorist groups, gangs, cartels, pimps, mafioso, yakuza, etc. Look at the trafficking rings, child rape/sex rings, car theft rings, hackers, illegal drug dealers you've known, etc. Look at the school shooters, mass shooters, bombers, suicide bombers, arsonists, etc. No matter how you slice it, the vast majority of them are men.

ETA: To add to my point, here's a site that links to all 50 States' Most Wanted lists. Let's see if you can spot the trend.
Most Wanted: National and state links

And here's a link of the 50 most wanted criminals in the US right now. (Gasp!) Only one female is on that list.
50 Most Wanted Criminals in the United States

a reply to: dug88 I have believed for a long time that men were getting screwed over. Take the abortion question, women call the shots, if she decides to keep baby, the guy will pay support for 18 years whether he wanted baby or not. If he wanted baby, but woman doesn't want to give life to baby at the cost of less than a year for innocent life. Two people made the baby, but if they consider it a mistake, the one paying the ultimate price is the only one without a voice. I've experienced discrimination in the workforce. I had a very non traditional career. I usually did work considered male dominated, I worked in aviation. Started out making wire harness for military aircraft, worked my way up to retire as a Flight Test Engineer, and veteran navy aircrew. Was a single mother most of my working life. Finally met a man who worked as hard as I did, but I always made more money than he did, that was never a problem for us. We've been happily married for 22years.

originally posted by: toysforadults
One the biggest topics in the MGTOW movement is the court system and how men are essentially railroaded with alimony and child support and how women take full advantage of this system to vindictively ruin the lives of people.

Just to point something out, the family court and judicial system are so lopsided that it doesn't even take a vindictive woman for a man to be railroaded.

My wife; who is the nicest, sweetest, non vindictive person I know; and I almost got divorced after the birth of our first child. The ill emotions between us that lead to our separation where fulled by the streets of having a young family and what we later found to be her suffering from postpartum depression. We never "hated" each other as it where and had no reason to be vindictive over. We where just tired and thought seperasion and divorce was just the right way to go for us.

I never got a lawyer, and we agreed that she would only get a lawyer to draw up and file the paperwork work. Unbeknownst to me until we reconciled the lawyer she got (from picking one at random) was trying to persuade her to take me for everything I had. And at the time I couldn't understand why I had to keep marking up the divorce agreement drafts this lawyer came up with cause there where all this gotcha booms in it. And like I said my wife wasnt being difficult she would take my markups back to the lawyer to get it fixed and the lawyer would hide another gotcha in it.

And it wasn't just the lawyer; family court treated me like a criminal too even though my wife and I where extremely corgel with our infant daughter being lovingly passed between the two of us as we talked to the various court people. Everything she said was taken at face value, everything I said had follow up question after follow up question. It was assumed my wife knew how to properly care for a young child, while it was assumed I did not.

Thank God for the fact that my wife had the wherewithal to realize she wasnt feeling quite right and began to see a therapist, who diagnosed and then treated her postpartum depression as it lead to our reconciliation. Had we went through with the divorce I'm certain it would not have ended well for me ... and again not because my wife was going out of her way to do that to me, but rather the system was. I can only imagine how it is for men who split with their wives on less corgel terms.

It only takes ten years of stability to lay a societally advantageous foundation for adulthood for every child....so lets stop the BS and get to the point...we require societal management of parenting for the first ten years projected via legeslations which prevent adults from re-engaging in any form of normal life within the parameters of societal control which means everywhere.....basically for ten years you cannot abrogate your responsibilities to your children expressed by co-habitation with your spouse and the cumulative co-operative balanced teachings that come with this dynamic.....no new girlfriend/boyfriend...no job beyond minimum wage....no earning allowed above minimum wage.....no driving privilages ...possible incarceration/work-camp .

Its up to us as a SOCIETY to begin policing the few rebels who demand instant divorce because they are to lazy to change themselves and work for their childrens futures and especially the ones who abuse their families and spouses....18 years of paid support is required for every child born and if this money is not paid then incarceration is needed...and government will provide jobs at minimum wage while in custody to make sure these payments DO NOT STOP......if you are an abusive spouse you will lose the family and go to jail/work-camp AND STILL PAY YOUR DUES....while your spouse will be privilaged to be free of you to re-engage in society with every advantage you will not recover for ten years to eighteen years.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
Oh you're going to ignore the US-backed military-led coup that took her out of power?

It's just not clever blaming the US for everything. The fact is that the Taliban hate and oppress women, and it was a member of the Pakistan Taliban who assassinated Benazir Bhutto. Bhutto was flawed, but she at least tried to promote women's rights in Pakistan and her secular agenda galvanised those Islamists against her. Nothing the Islamists dislike more than a woman with a voice.

a reply to: paraphi

1 thing I got wrong is that Bhutto was Prime Minister from 1988 to 1990 and again from 1993 to 1996. The US-backed Pakistani military coup led by General Musharraf was afterwards in 1999, and the US continued to stay his ally afterward. However, Bhutto wasn't assassinated until 2007.

Now, to obliterate your claim about who killed her, let's look at the official indictments for her assassination (HERE):

On 5 November 2011 a Pakistani court indicted two police officers in connection with Bhutto's 2007 assassination in Rawalpindi, among them the former police chief of the city. The two men were in charge of the former prime minister's security and have been previously arrested charged with "conspiracy as well as abetment in the murder" and "changing the security plan". A further 5 men have also been indicted all of whom are believed to have been affiliated with Beitullah Mehsud, the Pakistani Taliban leader blamed by the government for the attack.

On 20 August 2013 ex-President Pervez Musharraf, was indicted on three charges for murder, conspiracy to murder, and facilitation of murder in connection with his alleged failure to provide adequate security for Bhutto – charges for which he is reportedly denying responsibility.[100][101][102]

In 31 August 2017, Pakistani anti-terrorism court has declared Musharraf as an fugitive in Bhutto's murder and acquitted five suspected Pakistani Taliban of conspiracy to murder for lack of evidence and two high-ranking police officer had been sentenced 17 years in prison, one for mishandling security at the Bhutto rally and the another for mishandling the crime scene.[103][104][105]

Notice anything? I'm guessing you hadn't kept up with the story because it shows that Musharraf's govt blamed Taliban members for her assassination but those Taliban members were acquitted in court. He, on the other hand, fled the country to avoid going to trial for his own charges for her assassination. So are you sure that you want to keep peddling that lie that the Taliban killed her?

Though for the record, the Taliban is a Wahhabi and Salafi based organization. Just like Al-Qaeda, ISIS/Daesh, Boko Haram, Al Shabaab, and Al Nusra Front. A lot of them are open misogynists and chauvinists, so yeah a lot of them would be against a pro-women's rights leader. But I fail to see how that refutes my original points here.

originally posted by: visitedbythem
It was all part of a plot to get women out of the house as a home maker and to get both parents working.

Burn your bras! Be free! Now go work 40-50 hours a week, while we train your kids in school

you remind me of Aaron Russo and he mentioned what you said exactly and i agree with you

the first minute and a half of this interview which was a long time ago

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Bhutto's assassination was a conspiracy, but the long and the short of it was she was killed by a member of the Pakistani Taliban.

Bhutto was murdered on 27 December 2007 by a 15-year-old suicide bomber called Bilal. She had just finished an election rally in Rawalpindi when he approached her convoy, shot at her and blew himself up. Bilal had been asked to carry out the attack by the Pakistani Taliban.

Source BBC

a reply to: dug88

Exactly!

Feminists go ON and ON and ON about how awful a time women in the West are having it, while they have a massive ladyboner for a certain religion where women quite frankly do NOT experience the same perks and freedoms as in your typical Western society.

The reality is that toxic femininity has indeed reduced men to "overweight wankers in basements" while women are running around strong and independent and only happy with either a) Being lesbian or b) Sinking their teeth into some rich alpha male that they can totally fleece in a divorce.

Doesn't really have to be an alpha male - a metric ton of money is enough. Notice how good looking men get away with the exact same behaviour that makes women screem "metoo" when the dude is ugly.

Exaggerated? Not all that much, really.

a reply to: paraphi

So we're supposed to ignore the fact that the 5 Taliban members who "confessed" to aiding him were all acquitted in court? And we're supposed to ignore the fact that her political rival Musharraf was charged and then fled the country? And we should ignore the fact that the 2 non-Taliban police officers were both convicted? If you're going to argue that those countries should accept our norms, then what about our judicial norm of "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law"?

Either way, what does any of this have to do with this thread? I pointed out that there are feminist movements in those countries and even Islamic feminists like myself who use scriptures and traditions to argue our case. Benazir Bhutto was also pro-women's rights and she was a democratically elected to be the leader of Pakistan, which the US still hasn't had. Whoever killed her has no bearing on the fact that the women's rights groups in those countries have their own priorities that oftentimes have nothing to do with Western norms. Though I also noted that the Taliban is an ultraconservative Wahhabi-Salafi led group, so if they did kill her instead of the US ally Musharraf, that just reinforces the point about the women's rights groups there having their own priorities.

Fantastic thread. It’s obvious boys are dispensable in the West.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
So we're supposed to ignore the fact that the 5 Taliban members who "confessed" to aiding him were all acquitted in court?

No. Why would you want to do that? Besides, you're straying from the point. If you recall this boiled down to your comment of Islamic feminists, to which I responded that women's and girls rights in Muslim countries was abhorrent and that nine of the top ten worst offenders were countries where Muslims predominate. I feel the developed world should stop pandering to cultural and societal excuses for this level of abuse against 50% of the population, whereas you stated that this is acceptable, or should be excused.

Touting Bhutto as the example that Pakistan is somehow a shining light because she was a woman in Pakistan is a poor example, as she was assassinated by a member of the woman-hating group called the Pakistan Taliban. That's regardless of the men who orchestrated the atrocity.