A real expert talking about an EMP attack !

a reply to: C0bzz

Too bad we don't have more appliances that require 1 MV. It might be a perfect solution.

TheRedneck

Too much traffic on the video I guess. Got taken down for copyright violation.

Here's a working link

a reply to: 727Sky

"Life, Liberty & Levin 5/27/..." This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Fox News Network, LLC."

Cant view video im afraid.

I haven't looked at this in a while. But, here are a few things I recall off the top of my head.

1. The E1 pulse, due to its near instant nature, induces a current in an electronic circuit with a voltage rise-time that is significantly faster than most surge and over-current protection systems can react. The US electrical grid, mostly completed about 50 years ago, is constructed using devices that were manufactured before there was any awareness of protecting against such a threat.

2. The E3 pulse is created as the Magnetosphere, deformed by the high altitude detonation of a nuclear device, returns to it original configuration. This gentle motion of the geomagnetic field induces a quasi-DC signal in long power transmission lines. This DC voltage is transmitted to the primary of the power transformer causing it to overheat, damaging the winding.

3. In order to create the conditions for an E3 pulse, the nuclear device has to be detonated relatively high in the atmosphere. About 100 miles or so if I remember correctly. So just setting off a device at ground level would limit the effect of the E3 phase.

4. A single device would not affect the entire US. For various reasons it would take at least two devices to cover most of CONUS. And three devices to fully cover it.

5. A dirty fission bomb with lots of residual gamma-ray radiation is the most preferable type of device. A thermonuclear device is not as effective at EMP generation because the fusion process utilizes a lot of the byproducts of the fission explosion that otherwise would go to exacerbating the EMP.

6. While I haven't reviewed it in a while, I think the 99% casualties and mulit-trillion dollar economic impact figures came from a government report that was looking at a 21st century "Carrington Event" caused by a solar CME. That effect would look more like a sustained E3 phase, rather than the full suite of destruction we can expect from an actual EMP attack. It would also be much more widespread, affecting every geographical region of the planet that is facing the sun at the time of the CME-Magnetosphere interface.

7. Post EMP event, there are certain planned actions that have been proposed. One of which is to bring in diesel locomotives for some localized power generation. Diesel locomotive are mostly giant electric power generators for their electric drive motors. So, they are perfectly suited for the task. Once they are derailed, they are still close to the railroad tracks, so tankers traveling the rails would be used to keep them fully fueled.

8. "Nine meals to chaos" applies to almost every situation like this. Given the Just-In-Time product delivery system that underpins most Western economies, very few items are stocked in stores beyond what is needed for a few days of sales. Though consumers themselves may have provisions lasting a few days longer than this, it wouldn't take much more than 3 days before some amount of chaos starts to set in. Perhaps even faster if it appears that the crisis is widespread.

Thoughts on the supply of medication
Don't underestimate the societal cost of the loss of the supply of medications. After current individual supplies of medicines are depleted, death and other infirmity will become increasingly more prevalent. And, due to lack of resources, infirmity will likely lead to death.

At least a plurality, if not the majority, of US residents use one type of medication or another. Diabetes, high blood pressure, and heart disease would quickly take their toll.

Furthermore, other illnesses that are successfully being treated with medication, like mental illness, may relapse. Then society will need to make some tough decisions regarding long-term support of these patients. When resources are sufficiently limited, using them to support the "producers" is paramount to survival of the group. It's possible there won't be anything left for the "non-producers." Imagine voting on a euthanasia ballot measure.

Just a few thoughts on the issue. I don't have time for the video, but I'm sure it's stuff I've heard before.

-dex

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: 727Sky

"Life, Liberty & Levin 5/27/..." This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Fox News Network, LLC."

Cant view video im afraid.

youtu.be...

a reply to: DexterRiley

EXCELLENT post! I can only add a couple things:

E1 would not only be significant due to the rise time, but the induced voltage as well. Under perfect conditions, it could produce enough voltage to rival small lightning bolts. Coupled with the suddenness of the surge, that's a double whammy for anything connected to the electric lines.

The prolonged DC voltage produced by E3 was something I did not consider. Yes, absolutely, a large enough E3 event would burn out the windings in transformers easily... assuming they survived the E1 surge.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

E1 would not only be significant due to the rise time, but the induced voltage as well. Under perfect conditions, it could produce enough voltage to rival small lightning bolts. Coupled with the suddenness of the surge, that's a double whammy for anything connected to the electric lines.

True. I would expect, at the very least, that the E1 pulse would destroy most of the control systems for the power distribution plant. So then there's no control to re-start the system post EMP event until that's completely rebuilt. Or worse, there's no control to safely bring down the grid if parts of it are still functional. It's difficult enough to make all this old junk play nice with each other in the best of circumstances.

The prolonged DC voltage produced by E3 was something I did not consider. Yes, absolutely, a large enough E3 event would burn out the windings in transformers easily... assuming they survived the E1 surge.

Yep. I suppose the amount of heating would be related to some function of the magnitude and duration of the E3 phase. Even if the heating didn't cause the transformer to completely melt down initially, it would almost certainly limit its service life and load capacity severely . So, it would still need to be replaced quickly.

Thanks,
- dex

a reply to: DexterRiley

Isn't this pretty much the same exact thing I said earlier? That E1 would knock out the instrumentation and control, not necessarily the power generation and distribution itself? And, that it was E3 which was the most detrimental due to its long interval?

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: DexterRiley

Isn't this pretty much the same exact thing I said earlier? That E1 would knock out the instrumentation and control, not necessarily the power generation and distribution itself? And, that it was E3 which was the most detrimental due to its long interval?

Okay good.

It looks like we're all basically on the same page as to the some of the major effects of the various phases of an EMP event.

I'm not trying to steal anybody's thunder. I think we can all agree that we can classify an EMP attack as a "bad thing."


-dex

a reply to: DexterRiley

I didn't mean to imply you were stealing my thunder. That wasn't my intent.

Yes, I think we can all agree that an EMP attack would thoroughly suck!

It's very common for different people to come up with similar conclusions based on entirely different methods. I think that's what we have here. If so, it just lends credibility to the conclusions.

Our electrical infrastructure is old, antiquated, and extremely vulnerable.

TheRedneck

You may have to rethink Power Grids. Electricity will still be generated and distributed, but maybe on a more local scale. Where I believe it gets scary is that to placate electricians, most solar and wind generators must have the 60 CPS, alt. Voltage coming in, before they put any watts back out into the power lines. Every generating unit in an A C grid, must stay in sync, with every other generator.

My late father had a Lincoln Weld n Power, which combined a small AC buzz box with the 220 and 110 ac outlets. So he could both weld and grind his work. But in no way, could he ever hook this up to household ac power. And only some ac tools could be used, as his unit's ac wasn't nearly correct for 1750 rpm, household requirements.

After a Carrington Event, multiply this by every solar roof array, and wind turbine, and maybe you can get your head around what's coming. Sure you can still light your house, or weld and grind with series wound motors. Momma can still use her vacuum cleaner, but forget any T.V.'s. And if you needed batt's, a square wave rectifier, will bring back a little ac power. A nuclear EMP would be much nastier, and then only some Faraday protected electronics would survive.

On a positive note, many power co's, are slowly working up patches to protect their expensive infrastructures, but they aren't bragging about it. They are businesses, and don't want Uncle Sugar high grading everything in an emergency. The Manhattan Project swiped a full third of Grand Coulee Dam's power, all during WWII, without paying anything. Today, the entire Columbia Basin project lives on power generated in that old Dam. It pumps the water up, and then electric pumps take it from the canals and holding ponds, out to the fields, and their sprinklers. Pretty basic 1950 power distribution, which will feed most of us in the Pacific Northwest States. But Alfalfa Soup gets old real fast. And truckloads of raisins will replace bottles of wine. I don't think we can even malt barley for making beer, out here in the Columbia Basin, and on the Palouse Prairies, which is a shame, since chickens do fine on spent barley malts. So eggs and pet foods will also disappear.