The Pope on Homosexuality

originally posted by: visitedbythem
There is a way that seems right to mankind, but in the end, it leads to death

Everything leads to death.

The only outcome of Life.

originally posted by: redmage

originally posted by: redletter
Why would God condemn homosexuality if he made people that way? That makes no sense.

The bible is simply a collection of gospels written by humans (not God), and later collated and edited by the wishes of king James (not God). Humans are fallible, and so are their works.

I did not come here to argue the veracity of the Bible. I'm just stating that the head of the Catholic Church is stating that he does not believe in the Bible.

If he doesn't, and he is the head of the Roman Catholic Church, why should any of its adherents? In fact I would surmise that a large majority of Catholic priests, bishops, the pope, etc. do not read the Bible and do not believe in the Bible.

originally posted by: redletter
I did not come here to argue the veracity of the Bible. I'm just stating that the head of the Catholic Church is stating that he does not believe in the Bible.

If he doesn't, and he is the head of the Roman Catholic Church, why should any of its adherents?

It's the Pope's job to interpret the Bible, and God's wishes, for followers of Catholicism. The church selected him for the job, and let the infamous "white smoke" bellow upon their decision. If followers have faith in the church and its systems, then there's no issue.

originally posted by: redletter
In fact I would surmise that a large majority of Catholic priests, bishops, the pope, etc. do not read the Bible and do not believe in the Bible.

Hmmm. I'm pretty sure they've read it, but you might be correct regarding the weight of some of their beliefs in it. For instance, I haven't seen the Church calling for the stoning of people who work on the sabbath lately.

"For Centuries Gay people have been told that they are God's abomination. They are not and this is an issue that need's to be addressed. Gay people are not sinners"


I take it your speaking on gods behalf .....?

a reply to: Plotus
Well how do we know anyone is speaking on the behalf of their Deity. I could say on of my gods, say An Morriganhas deemed it that you can't wear socks on a Sunday, least you offend her.... I'd be speaking form an orifice other than my mouth (or typing with an appendage other than my fingers). But I could say that, and enough adopt that, it becomes "Cannon". That is how faith works, its all gnoses, gut feelings, and belief.

It seems many of these topics are taken from a persons opinion, and a foundation laid therein to begin a debate. While opinion is fine pro or con, it is not the voice of God. And we are talking of God here, not a vague deity.

originally posted by: Plotus
I take it your speaking on gods behalf .....?

Again, it's the Pope's job to interpret the Bible, and God's wishes, for followers of Catholicism. The church selected him for the job, and let the infamous "white smoke" bellow upon their decision. If followers of Catholicism have faith in the church and its systems, then the answer is... yes.

originally posted by: ketsuko
Pope must be using the Queen James edition.

You WIN the thread.

originally posted by: redmage
It's the Pope's job to interpret the Bible, and God's wishes, for followers of Catholicism. The church selected him for the job, and let the infamous "white smoke" bellow upon their decision. If followers have faith in the church and its systems, then there's no issue.

You could be right, perhaps they have read the Bible. I have my doubts about that. Be that as it may I would disagree that it is the Pope's job to interpret scripture.

No prophet in the Bible claimed authority to interpret divine prophecy or inspired utterances of God.

When Pharoah had a dream and no one could interpret it for him, and it was made known to Pharoah, the king of Egypt that there was a Hebrew, a servant of Jehovah who could interpret dreams, he had the man, Joseph called up to interpret the dream for him. Did Joseph claim to be able to interpret the dreams? Notice how he replied:

Then Pharʹaoh said to Joseph: “I have dreamed a dream, but there is no interpreter of it. Now I myself have heard it said about you that you can hear a dream and interpret it.”  At this Joseph answered Pharʹaoh, saying: “I need not be considered! God will announce welfare to Pharʹaoh.” Genesis 41:15, 16.


Do you know what the word Pope means? It means Dad, or Father. Obviously in a spiritual sense. Jesus said this about calling people your father (pope) on earth:

 Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One. Neither be called leaders, for your Leader is one, the Christ. But the greatest one among you must be your minister. - Matthew 23:9-11

No one on earth has the authority or permission to be called pope or father. In fact it was strictly prohibited by Jesus. There were to be no "clergy" or leaders in the congregation.

Paul said that we were all fellow workers:

 What, then, is A·polʹlos? Yes, what is Paul? Ministers through whom you became believers, just as the Lord granted each one.  I planted, A·polʹlos watered, but God kept making it grow,  so that neither is the one who plants anything nor is the one who waters, but God who makes it grow. Now the one who plants and the one who waters are one, but each person will receive his own reward according to his own work. For we are God’s fellow workers. You are God’s field under cultivation, God’s building. 1 Corinthins 3:5-9.

The greatest must be the minister. A minister is not a leader, but someone that administers, or one who serves the other. We are all brothers in the congregation.

This is one of many reason I have my doubts that many Church leaders have read the Bible. Because if they knew that their whole organizational structure is based upon antichristian teachings, and teachings that go against the very words of Jesus Christ himself they would be shamed and would change.

As it is they have not been shamed, and they have not changed. So I doubt they read God's word, and if they do, I highly doubt they believe it. They certainly are not faithful to it, and certainly cannot interpret it correctly. They are blind guides Jesus said. Here is the outcome:

. Blind guides is what they are. If, then, a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit. Matthew 15:14.

Well then, believe as you wish. You could scarcely be expected to change your belief's.

Where is there proof that god has said anything, ever? All of religion is basically opinion. I'm not religious at all, but I was raised in a pretty strict Roman Catholic household, and if Pope Francis was in charge back then, I would've had way more respect for the religion. He's a stand up guy.

To the point, he's responsible for the entire Catholic religion, so essentially, what he says goes. And, how is he wrong? To a religious person, god made everything and everyone to be what they are. So...god made mistakes with homosexual people? That means he isn't all-powerful, therefore he isn't a god. Otherwise, if you take the premise that god is always right, then he was right to create people with homosexual feelings. Therefore, it isn't a sin.
Who cares who anyone loves, as long as it isn't harming anyone.
Bottom line, keep religion out of love. And government. And everything else.

originally posted by: narrator
Where is there proof that god has said anything, ever? All of religion is basically opinion. I'm not religious at all, but I was raised in a pretty strict Roman Catholic household, and if Pope Francis was in charge back then, I would've had way more respect for the religion. He's a stand up guy.

To the point, he's responsible for the entire Catholic religion, so essentially, what he says goes. And, how is he wrong? To a religious person, god made everything and everyone to be what they are. So...god made mistakes with homosexual people? That means he isn't all-powerful, therefore he isn't a god. Otherwise, if you take the premise that god is always right, then he was right to create people with homosexual feelings. Therefore, it isn't a sin.
Who cares who anyone loves, as long as it isn't harming anyone.
Bottom line, keep religion out of love. And government. And everything else.

Nah. People can and do sin of their own accord. That doesn't mean God isn't God. And it doesn't make their sins correct. And it surely doesn't mean there is no such thing as sin.

The Rock, perfect is his activity, For all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness who is never unjust; Righteous and upright is he.  5 They are the ones who have acted corruptly. They are not his children, the defect is their own. They are a crooked and twisted generation! (Deuteronomy 32:4, 5)

originally posted by: Joecanada11
a reply to: KansasGirl

Seems to be that bisexuality amongst women is the new it thing lately.

Do You believe in irony Joe? The reason I type this is... During the Canadian Beer Strike, (Summer 1985) We were in Medicine Hat to play the Blue Jays and We were in a hotel next to a strip joint and across from a BurgerKing™.. Anyways, I remember buying a case of Rainier™ (Big Red R and NOT the 'Green Death' Ale) for $25 Canadian and one of the dancers asked if She could 'deliver it' She showed up with 2 of Her co-workers, one with which She was 'coupled'.

Also the first time that I saw cropped pubic regions. I mention this only because porn of that era still had BUSH poking every which way..

Is Canada more progressive??? Discuss..

Stay Hydrated...

P.S. funny thing, I even looked to see if they still brew 'The Big Red R'..

originally posted by: narrator
So...god made mistakes with homosexual people? That means he isn't all-powerful, therefore he isn't a god. Otherwise, if you take the premise that god is always right, then he was right to create people with homosexual feelings. Therefore, it isn't a sin.

Some nutbar will come along and tell you it was Satan.

originally posted by: redletter
I would disagree that it is the Pope's job to interpret scripture.

Well, it seems that neither you nor I are Catholic, but Catholics do hold that belief of their Pope.

originally posted by: redletter
No prophet in the Bible claimed authority to interpret divine prophecy or inspired utterances of God.

I suppose that depends on whether or not you consider Jesus to be a prophet.

Beyond that, you bring up many interesting points.

originally posted by: ATruGod

originally posted by: visitedbythem
It doesn't matter what the pope says. He is just a man, and men cannot forgive sins regardless of what he says.

Scripture is very clear about Same sex sin. They spell it out very clearly.

Scripture was written by Men also...as well as translated and edited (many times)!

Hi Brad, Nailed It!!! Especially APPARENT when TheQuorum™ (The Scribes) eliminated Adam's 1st wife, "Lilith" who was "created from the same dirt..." (EQUAL) and invented 'Eve' who needed a bit of Adam to get going (subservient)

I have ZERO DOUBT, these same small penised "men" also were cool to the bits about the wife doing EVERY LITTLE THING the 'Man' says.. (screams a LARGE CASE OF 'SMALLCOX')

They didn't bother looking at the Gospels of Judas (Jesus' only Apostle who He could count on. Jesus certainly couldn't ask or put His WIFE in line for negative energy...)

But wait.... You are typing about the King James Version II; 3rd re-write; 4th re-vision?? Just so We're on the same page..


How about the bit where Jesus toured ALL of the East? The time He spent w/the Buddhists? The Hindus?

WWJT? What Would Jesus Type?

Stay Hydrated...

a reply to: narrator


A couple of things...

There is a group of self-claimed Chris†ians™ who think the Catholic™ flavor isn't a "true Chris†ian™ Faith" . This same group also do what they can to 'separate' whom they deem to be 'not worthy' and then whine about "Chris†ian™ Persecution".

See if You can see any similarities here:
en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: redletter

You keep quoting the Bible, here's one that basically says God is responsible for EVERYTHING good or bad.

I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things. Isaiah 45:7

Did He create Everything knowing the outcome or not?

originally posted by: ATruGod
a reply to: redletter

You keep quoting the Bible, here's one that basically says God is responsible for EVERYTHING good or bad.

I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things. Isaiah 45:7

Did He create Everything knowing the outcome or not?

God creates all things in perfection. He did create other sentient beings with freewill. The Bible says he created angels in heavens as spirits like him. And also humans on earth, as souls, that is who have flesh and blood. And we all have free will.

So in the sense that God gave us the ability to chose to obey or disobey, yes he was aware they could be disobedient. For example in the garden of Eden he made a tree and set it apart as a test to mankind's obedience to his sovereignty and said they couldn't eat from it.

He obviously knew they had the ability and capacity to disobey him. He's not stupid. He also didn't test their loyalty for no reason.

But he gave them all freewill. God did not make them obey him or disobey him. Like the scripture I quoted above said, they acted of their own accord. The defect is their own. That he allowed them to be disobedient, and he has allowed rebellion to his sovereignty to exist, doesn't mean he caused or willed it. He simply allowed it.

But what he wills will come to be. So things will be made right, and he will swiftly wipe out rebellion. And perfection will again be established. God's thoughts are much more elevated than yours. And he will accomplish whatever his good will pleasures.

a reply to: redletter


So, TL : DR, God made The Gays?