Originally posted by TheDeadEnigma
vs man,...

'Man's greatest enemy is himself.' myself

Hmmm. Maybe that which is, should be. That which was, is to be. That which is to come, should have been.

Whenever you try to interpret what will happen at the end of the world, one rule applies. Never consult the Revelations. They were actually written to the Christians being persecuted basically telling them not to renounce their faith. It was written in code because it was very dangerous to write anything that would go against the Roman government and unfortunately, many people have forgotten that.

Originally posted by maynardsthirdeye
Whenever you try to interpret what will happen at the end of the world, one rule applies. Never consult the Revelations. They were actually written to the Christians being persecuted basically telling them not to renounce their faith. It was written in code because it was very dangerous to write anything that would go against the Roman government and unfortunately, many people have forgotten that.

Your claim is rediculous and absurd.
What exactly is there in revelations different, and in conflict with the rest of the bible - except that it was written more parable-like with many symbols which is necessary because otherwise timeline would be changed - and our right of free will would be damaged.

What I mean is, are you expecting revelations to say something like: Antichrist called ---- ------ will come in 2013 as president of Europe. etc... Nope. That would obviously change future.

End of the world has been also told by Jesus to apostle Matthew and many other parts of bible. By saying that you are also saying that entire bible is false.
Seems like you've been brainwashed by someone, my advice: dont believe everything you hear.

[Edited on 7-7-2003 by Megaquad]

Angels do NOT have free-will (see thread on predestination and free-will). They have the power of choice, not free-moral-agency. That's different.

The four horsemen of the apocalypse appear at the BEGINNING of the tribulation...actually kind of BEFORE the tribulation. Please remember that the book of The Revelation is symbolic. I do not believe that it is warranted to take this as meaning 4 literal beings on 4 literal horses ride out and smack a bunch of people.

Personally, I take the allegorical 4 horsemen to speak of the ills that mankind brings on itself before the tribulation ever starts.

Concerning the question of whether angels/demons are stronger than humans. Jacob wrestled the angel all night and only finally had to holler "uncle" when the angel pull some kind of paranormal whammy on his right thigh. I believe physically they may not be all that much more powerful. But with spiritual powers (or read paranormal if you wish), I believe they are MUCH stronger...primarily because we spend most of our lives denying our spiritual powers.

In the end it might not matter though, because the angels can exert power only so far as God allows...and that does NOT include powers over our spirits/souls.

[Edited on 7-7-2003 by Valhall]

I find this discussion kind of strange.

First only God and yourself can ever "judge" you (the individual).

Second, why does it matter who is stronger? Is there a WWF match in the heaven to come or something?

Angels and demons are probably more intelligent than humans and have more power (remember that Satan is supposed to have been second only to God for intelligence, power, and glory). This is the reason he rebelled, his pride, he felt that he was worthy of worship. However God did give humans one power which was never given to the angels, the power of creation of immortal beings - ourselves. In spite of all his power, Satan cannot create a being like himself. There are no little demonetes running around Satan's feet. I believe this is one reason why Satan hates the human race. We have the ability to create beings who have immortal souls - our children. Every time we engage in a sexual act, we can change to course of eternity. That child which may result will have an immortal soul which will either spend eternity with God in heaven or will spend eternity in Hell. Also that child may affect others peoples lives in ways that we cannot forsee. (If Hitler's mother could have glimpse his future, don't you think she might have had a "headache" for the rest of her life). This is probably the reason God places some much importance on sexual morality.

Originally posted by Megaquad

Originally posted by maynardsthirdeye
Whenever you try to interpret what will happen at the end of the world, one rule applies. Never consult the Revelations. They were actually written to the Christians being persecuted basically telling them not to renounce their faith. It was written in code because it was very dangerous to write anything that would go against the Roman government and unfortunately, many people have forgotten that.

Your claim is rediculous and absurd.
What exactly is there in revelations different, and in conflict with the rest of the bible - except that it was written more parable-like with many symbols which is necessary because otherwise timeline would be changed - and our right of free will would be damaged.

What I mean is, are you expecting revelations to say something like: Antichrist called ---- ------ will come in 2013 as president of Europe. etc... Nope. That would obviously change future.

End of the world has been also told by Jesus to apostle Matthew and many other parts of bible. By saying that you are also saying that entire bible is false.
Seems like you've been brainwashed by someone, my advice: dont believe everything you hear.

[Edited on 7-7-2003 by Megaquad] [/quote

I don't rely on the Bible so to me, it is not the word of God. I also don't believe in God so that helps.

The Bible says that man shall rule over the Angels.A description of what they look like can be found in Ezekiel chapter 1.
Here is a small excerpt "13 As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, and like the appearance of lamps: it went up and down among the living creatures; and the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth lightning.

14 And the living creatures ran and returned as the appearance of a flash of lightning."
It also says that they have wings and when they fly the noise is like the rushing waters
I'd have to say that they are probably stronger than us now,but in the end our new bodies be they spirits or flesh will be perfect and we will then rule over them.



[Edited on 8-7-2003 by Daz3d-n-Confus3d]

Humans recieve help from Angels and then because most of us do not realize they have helped us, we believe it was our own strength.

One more thing,
I know your all slobbering over that amazing angel pic.
I'll call dibs on it.....suckerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrsssssssss
Deep

Sorry.
That was a bit rude of me to act so childish.
Its just that its such an amazing picture.
I let my greed take over my emotions.
Deep

Great, now i cant get that picture on my avatar, though it says i have down it.
I cant see it?
Now i also seem to be talking to my self.
Help, anyone?
Deep

Hey Zero,

Thanks for the laughs.

If you are interested in learning about Christianity, get a bible and DON'T read it cover to cover, at least not initially. Start with Matthew in the New Testament and read the Gospel FIRST. You can go back and read the Old Testament later. (Unless you like History a lot) The Gospel will tell the life of Christ and is really the key to the whole religion. Not to say that there isn't other intersting stories and lessons to be learned elsewhere in the bible, I just feel that people don't really understand Christianity. It is not about Angels and Demons (though they are involved). It is about Grace and Love. Two things that most people don't experience enough and hence, don't really understand.

That is all. God Bless you on your journey.

~Jammer

One on one angels are more powerful than us. But then it isn't that simple. You have good angels and fallen ones. Good ones serve God and the fallen serve Satan. A Christian, through God, has the power to drive out or cast away the fallen angels. So basically a 5 yr. old Christian girl, with God's help of course, can toss even Satan around like a rag doll. I hope that clarifies things.
Oh, jag, people don't "create" a soul when they reproduce, only God can make a soul, we just provide the physical material. I'm sure you all know how that works.............

Sandman, one question - when does the soul enter the body? We must believe that this happens some time before birth. In Luke 1:38 - 1:48, we have the child who will become John the Baptist kicking for joy in the womb of Elizabeth when Elizabeth heard about Mary. We must then come to the conclusion that a unborn child does have spiritual discernment. Also has there every been a child born without an immortal soul?

Well, a person is a person at the moment of conception, contrary to what any pro-choicers think. When exactly the soul is imparted I really wouldn't know but conception would be my guess.

Has any person been born without an immortal soul? Well, that's easy, if you know the good ol' bible well enough or happened to run into the right info. According to what I've heard, which makes perfect sense, anybody whose daddy was a fallen angel, that is one of the Nephilim, will not be a part of the second resurection. Which pretty much means if you are or were one of the Nephilim you have your one life here on earth and that's it for you, no heaven, no hell. You know because the Nephilim aren't full humans.

We are more poweriful than angels, We were created perfect in Gods image, but due to our sin, it has made us unpure, which limits the power of God in us. But through Jesus, this strength and power and authority has been restored. We only need to act on it and we can change the world in one single heart beat. We have the authority and the power to bind up demons and cast them out, When I speak the name of Jesus the Devil shakes in fear. Demons go in to hidding. When we speak forth words, theses words have the authority of life and death, they can change the universe and the world. We are who, we think we are. If we look past and stop thinking who we are and start being who we really are in Jesus, Than we will be far more stronger and more poweriful than angels.



[Edited on 12-7-2003 by Micah]

Ever herd of the totem of man.


Well hears the idea there two gods one of good and one of evil.

They created a world in-between there kingdoms.

They created this world because it was impossible for one to defeat the other so they created a prize that would decide the winner.

They created a world with life. Us. When we die we become soldiers for either side. But were superior then any warrior born in hell or heaven because of our will and instinct. Angels and demons don’t even have instinct to live they just do what there told.

But were being used by both gods. So a third force created by the will of humanity forged a god. A third god that fights for humanity because he is humanity. This third force can destroy both the creators man. And free humanity and conquer both the kingdoms of heaven and hell. So humanity is stronger then angels and demons.