Cliven Bundy and his family are Mormon Zealots

Look, I know a lot of you folks want to portray the Bundys as Patriots who stand against injustice but the problem is they are religious zealots.

The two found support for their beliefs, and they have since passed their findings on to others who continue to challenge what they consider federal overreach and a collapse of the U.S. Constitution. They compiled the works, highlighted and annotated, into an anthology called "The Nay Book," named for rancher Keith Nay, Bundy's late neighbor. The nearly 200-page booklet starts with a letter from Bundy outlining the document's central question: "What is the constitutional duty of a member of the Lord's church?" Bundy found answers in the scripture that he believed directed and justified him in "defending my rights and my ranch against the federal government's tyrannical" usurpation of his land.

"The Nay Book" is a document rarely found outside Bundy's inner circle, and it appears to lay a religious foundation for the rancher's strong and consistent views that the federal government has been trampling his rights. More than an issue of the control of public land and federal taxation, it shows that Bundy and those close to him tie a unique interpretation of Mormon tenets to fundamental American governance and believe that defending their land is both a political and a religious necessity.

"This document absolutely represents a fringe ideology within the church," said Matthew Bowman,

www.sltrib.com...

Local residents in Burns, Oregon even acknowledged that the Bundys are extremists:

It wasn't the federal government that was overreaching and abridging the rights of citizens. Rather, it was Bundy fanaticism that put innocent lives at risk, Ward says.

"They are extremists," says Ward, who was hailed by Grasty for exercising patience and restraint in the extremely volatile crises that overwhelmed this quiet community. "Any disagreement with them makes you the enemy."

www.sltrib.com...

If the Bundys can, they would have probably carve up their theocratic fiefdom and impose their own brand of Mormonism on their territories at the expense of many people. The fact local residents in Burns are afraid of them should be a red flag showing something is seriously off with the Bundys.

Look I disagree with the Federal government on many things but I am not supporting a bunch of religious zealots.

a reply to: starwarsisreal
In the form of a question:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: Phage

Apologies Phage. Mods please close his thread. I shall contribute over there.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

No. It's very old. Don't go.

Dude, all charges dismissed.

They murdered Finicum.

With all odds against them, they prevailed.

Now you want to try them again?

Is the Nay document anti-american? Or does it teach unconstitutional ideologies? I don't know, I am asking. You just say it is bad, they are evil.

a reply to: Phage

Phage in your opinion why do people want to support the Bundys even though it's pretty obvious they are zealots? I get that the Federal government has a lot of problems that need changing but supporting religious zealots isn't going to help.

The Bundys if shtf would have started their own Mormon caliphate.

So your whole argument is around the religious zealot narrative? So you don't believe in freedom of religion. Did these extremists actually hurt anyone?

You do remember one of these extremists was shot and killed after being forced off the road by federal agents?

You strike me as just another leftist who worships at the alter of the state. Which is far more dangerous than any religious ideology. Yes even Islam.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

The federal agents that Obama and Harry Reid sicced on the Bundy's were the actual Zealots. Zealots of their much abused government powers.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

Phage in your opinion why do people want to support the Bundys even though it's pretty obvious they are zealots?

I gave up on trying to figure that out back when it was happening.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

If the Bundys can, they would have probably carve up their theocratic fiefdom and impose their own brand of Mormonism on their territories at the expense of many people. The fact local residents in Burns are afraid of them should be a red flag something is seriously off with the Bundys.

Sorry, but you could replace "Mormonism" in that paragraph with near any religion, atheism, or other cult-like following and say it about other Americans, including some very prominent and respected ones. I'm not exactly sure why their religious beliefs matter in a public argument about limiting the federal government's land rights. Open that door up and we suddenly have the opportunity for the following to walk right on through...
-If environmentalist groups had their way, they would carve up their technocratic fiefdom and impose their brand of environmentalism...
-If Islamists had their way...
-If atheists had their way...
-If social justice warriors had their way...
etc
etc
etc.

The point is, everyone is potentially dangerous. The Bundy's don't "have their way," but they do have Constitutional rights and civil liberties which were threatened by federal overreach. They also have a salient point: Washington DC has far, far too much control over lands which should be 100% under the control of either private owners or the state, in the case of public lands.

Also from that article....

"This document absolutely represents a fringe ideology within the church," said Matthew Bowman, a history professor at Henderson State University and the author of "The Mormon People: The Making of an American Faith." He said it is not representative of what the mainstream church teaches and is the kind of thinking that has been used to legitimize notorious fights with the U.S. government. "They are the kinds of ideas that can be held by people in dangerous confrontations with authorities, as we saw at Ruby Ridge, at Waco, at Bundy RanchThey are the kinds of ideas that can be held by people in dangerous confrontations with authorities, as we saw at Ruby Ridge, at Waco, at Bundy Ranch."

Kathleen Flake, a professor of Mormon studies at the University of Virginia, called the booklet an example of "radical libertarian dogma."


Radical libertarian dogma is what America was founded on

Without reading this Nay book, passing judgement on anything it says is just speculation. Furthermore, you are getting into dangerous territory when you start trying to use peoples holy books to disparage them. I guarantee i could go through any religious text and find atleast one passage, that if taken out of context, would make you think its followers should be committed. Remember, the pendulum always swings back. If you say "LOOK AT THIS CRAZY ZEALOT!HE SHOULD BE PUNISHED" remember that in ten years public sentiment could shift enough to the point where you are looked at as the crazy zealot and its you on the chopping block. The way to true liberty is to defend the free expression of ideas, even if you find them disagreeable.

I think that this article is really an attempt to make the Bundys less sympathetic. The weavers were painted as crazy white supremacists, david koeresh (probably the least sympathetic of the bunch) was portrayed to be the leader of a pedophilia ring. And now here the bundys are being made out to be religious zelots. I wouldnt be suprised if the government had more in store for the bundys. Im sure someone in an IRS office is going over their returns with a fine tooth comb looking for anything they can use to put them in cuffs now that all the attention and the milita is gone.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

Wow, makes perfect sense, can't be religious and a patriot? To find justification within one's faith seems like a sensible thing to do. The fact that they needed to find presidence within their faith before standing against tyranny should be a comfort, but you label a whole group as crazy zealots and fanatics. Makes me wonder where you draw your own credo from.

Disclaimer: I am a Mormon

a reply to: starwarsisreal

Oh the irony in your crucifixion of supposed religious zealots in favor of asking one of the most proven prominent political zealots on ATS. Just so long as it's the RIGHT type of zealotry right? lol...

a reply to: starwarsisreal

Yeah...he sure sounds like a zealot. You need to understand the definition before parroting a propaganda piece. You also need to educate yourself on the derivation of the word "caliphate". I included a video for you on what a caliphate is. Now watch the two videos and tell me who the zealot is.

People like you are what's wrong in the world. Disinformation trolls.

Riddle me this, Batman....

What does the Bundy's religious persuasion have to do with the stand they took against the federal government over public land and the usage of the same? Please explain the direct connection between the two concepts. Please explain how their conviction to Mormonism had anything at all to do with where cattle are allowed to graze and who has authority to decide.

Nothing else, just that.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

What in tue holy name of tyranny is going on in here? So zealots dont have rights?

I dont support zealots. Or any individual beyond those close to me. I do, however, support the rights for others that i want for myself. Zealot or not.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

Team Bundy here! Loud and Proud!!!

Look, I know a lot of you folks want to portray the Bundys as Patriots who stand against injustice but the problem is they are religious zealots.

No. The problem is the Feds who have misused and abused their power and authority in the worst ways. If anyone is a "zealot," it's the Feds. Particularly BLM and FWS. Not the Bundys. And it's a longstanding and escalating problem.

Bottom line: The Bundy's aren't a threat to anyone that isn't threatening them... The feds are a threat to everyone. And I have the utmost respect for those who will step out of their nice safe comfort zones to fight tyranny. I never agreed with or supported their methods, but I sure won't condemn them for doing their best under impossible circumstances.

I will, however, condemn the Feds who put the Bundys and countless others in this position with their out-of-control abuse, bullying, intimidation.

Loud and proud.

a reply to: Whoisjohngalt

I think that this article is really an attempt to make the Bundys less sympathetic.

I think you're right about that... This article came out just about the time that the judge declared the mistrial against the defendants for Brady violations by the prosecution. And I'm betting their efforts will be ramped up with this:

Ryan Bundy, a leader in ranching standoff, announces run for Nevada governor

The weavers were painted as crazy white supremacists, david koeresh (probably the least sympathetic of the bunch) was portrayed to be the leader of a pedophilia ring. And now here the bundys are being made out to be religious zelots. I wouldnt be suprised if the government had more in store for the bundys. Im sure someone in an IRS office is going over their returns with a fine tooth comb looking for anything they can use to put them in cuffs now that all the attention and the milita is gone.

The only bright spot in all this is that people in the southwest don't believe that crap for a minute, because we know better. The Feds "own" up to 80% of land in some of the western states. Most of us have family or friends who have to deal with the BLM and/or FWS and their ignorance and arrogance in one way or another. Their bad reps precede them everywhere they go. The rest of the country may not understand, but most of us do in the west/southwest... including Nevada voters.

Trump pulled it off. I'm not counting Ryan Bundy out yet!

I'm curious if you would have made this post if they were Muslim "zealots".

My read on it is that, in spite of whatever negatives the Bundy's may possess, they typify an "American Archetype" of the "old west" which many people identify with as their ideal of "freedom" and "when a man was a real man" kind of stuff. It FELT good to support them against the already perennial enemy not to be trusted, the (scary booming voice) GOVERNMENT...

Anyway. They have the same marketing appeal as the Marlboro Man...