Trump announces pulling out of Iran deal and imposing sanctions

a reply to: nwtrucker
PLease then educate me on the Hegelian dialectic please oh great sage.

a reply to: Gothmog
Elaborate on that, please. Do not just makes a statement and then not back it up. Why do you think Trump is not a zionist puppet?

originally posted by: Konduit
a reply to: Annee

What exactly do you mean by respect?

You dont see the difference here? One is pure propaganda to influence a easily persuaded person. The bottom is China knowing that BS from the first doesnt work.

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: Middleoftheroad

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: Middleoftheroad

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Middleoftheroad

Actually, IIRC, Iran made deals with both Airbus and Boeing to replace their aging civilian airliners....then the deal was struck, both in Europe and the U.S..

P.S. That could be one form of retaliation Iran could make, cancelling the Boeing purchase.

Sure, but I’m not to concerned about replenishing Boeing’s and Airbus’s aging airliners. The EU has a lot more than that deal to be concerned about though.

How so?

Here ya go: The Hill

Very interesting article. Kind of depressing in it's way. Makes me wonder why the EU signed onto the sanctions in the first place?? Very strange.

That raises the question of what happens if the majority of the EU nations refuse to go along with the sanctions? Obviously there's always someone who will violate them, but if the majority do, what then?

The other question that comes up is if there's so much trade going on between the EU and Iran, why should Iran be so desperate to have the agreement stay in place? It's not like they rely on U.S. trade and from that sense wouldn't suffer whatsoever.

That leaves only one answer I can come up with and that is iran is desperate to develop those nukes. To not be where 'the line in the sand' is reasserted. That would leave them, Persians, as long term a non-nuclear power.

Is there some aspect I'm missing here or does that make sense based on the information to hand?

Why would Europe follow the US on this one? The whole point was to relax sanctions (in order to get Iran back into the global market and diplomacy to reduce the need of Nukes) and prevent the further progress to nuclear weapons. If the sanctions goes back on even though they were in compliance with the deal the only route they have left is Nukes. Look what it got NK a sit down with US president...

www.youtube.com...

This video is absolutely a fantastic joke.

originally posted by: Pyle

originally posted by: Konduit
a reply to: Annee

What exactly do you mean by respect?

You dont see the difference here? One is pure propaganda to influence a easily persuaded person. The bottom is China knowing that BS from the first doesnt work.

The crowds were yuge, did you see them all, they were all cheering twump, Twump is wery good ,you should have seen them all, and I was very happy to see them....

originally posted by: Pyle

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: Middleoftheroad

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: Middleoftheroad

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Middleoftheroad

Actually, IIRC, Iran made deals with both Airbus and Boeing to replace their aging civilian airliners....then the deal was struck, both in Europe and the U.S..

P.S. That could be one form of retaliation Iran could make, cancelling the Boeing purchase.

Sure, but I’m not to concerned about replenishing Boeing’s and Airbus’s aging airliners. The EU has a lot more than that deal to be concerned about though.

How so?

Here ya go: The Hill

Very interesting article. Kind of depressing in it's way. Makes me wonder why the EU signed onto the sanctions in the first place?? Very strange.

That raises the question of what happens if the majority of the EU nations refuse to go along with the sanctions? Obviously there's always someone who will violate them, but if the majority do, what then?

The other question that comes up is if there's so much trade going on between the EU and Iran, why should Iran be so desperate to have the agreement stay in place? It's not like they rely on U.S. trade and from that sense wouldn't suffer whatsoever.

That leaves only one answer I can come up with and that is iran is desperate to develop those nukes. To not be where 'the line in the sand' is reasserted. That would leave them, Persians, as long term a non-nuclear power.

Is there some aspect I'm missing here or does that make sense based on the information to hand?

Why would Europe follow the US on this one? The whole point was to relax sanctions (in order to get Iran back into the global market and diplomacy to reduce the need of Nukes) and prevent the further progress to nuclear weapons. If the sanctions goes back on even though they were in compliance with the deal the only route they have left is Nukes. Look what it got NK a sit down with US president...

Exactly. By having diplomacy and trade the cultural exchange is growing ever more rapid with an increasingly liberal/westernised youth in Iran. It's only a matter of time until the regime crumbles as long as trade continues.

Tearing up the deal based on lies, launching missile strikes, imposing sanctions and ramping up war talk will only prop up the Iranian regime.

If there was a shred of evidence Iran was breaking the treaty or some form of replacement plan for the deal it'd make at least a bit of sense. Instead Trump is so delusional the admin he thinks there can be some unilateral replacement for the deal when all but Israel have turned their back on his actions.

The question shouldn't be why is the rest of the world isn't following suit, it should be why the US and Israel are so desperate to cancel a fully working diplomatic unilateral process to replace it with nothing but war talk and ramping up cold war tensions and an ME nuclear arms race.

My money is siding with the usual fundie evangelicals 'dooms day cult' who think nuclear holocaust is a good thing because it'd 'start the rapture' in their words. Been a central part of US foreign policy in the ME since 1957.

What I find funny about all this, the same people that are screaming pulling out of this agreement could start WW3, seem to be the same people saying we need to crush Russia economically, of these two countries only 1 could actually force a fight with the US. (hint its not Iran)

originally posted by: bastion


Exactly. By having diplomacy and trade the cultural exchange is growing ever more rapid with an increasingly liberal/westernised youth in Iran. It's only a matter of time until the regime crumbles as long as trade continues.

Or the regime could be strengthened by an improving economy ... there needs to be a reason for the Iranians to rise up and throw out the crazies. Mere lack of freedom unfortunately wont cut it.

This is nothing more than the next act in Trump's obsessive need to reverse anything and everything done by Obama. It's his way of attempting to put himself above Obama in the history books. That's THE most important thing to him --- entirely ego-driven. It must suck to have a penis that small.

a reply to: jtma508

Projection and/or deflection.


You dont know hos motives. But he seems to be pretty successful thus far. The of the region were giving broad support overnight.

a reply to: mightmight

Thanks for the clarification.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Middleoftheroad

originally posted by: Konduit
a reply to: Annee

What exactly do you mean by respect?

Those videos comparing their arrivals in foreign countries are hilarious and shows the severe lack of respect Obama had.

I'd say you chose your media source.

What about The Guardian and CNN. They are as biased as possible and still see the writing on the wall.

originally posted by: Carcharadon

originally posted by: crtrvt
This is exactly like the run up to the Iraq war where the whole world is shouting that the weapons inspections are doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing, but the Republicans have completely different interests in mind.

What are you yammering on about? The Republicans (McStain/Graham/Ryan ) live this turd of a deal. Not all Democrats are Progressives just lile not all conservatives are Repugnants.

Agreed!

a reply to: bastion

Largely due to the evidence that, diplomacy didn't work with NK. It, if one looks at it objectively, isn't working with Iran, either. I see zero change in Iran's actions, post agreement. Still challenging US military in the straight. Even in one incident capturing US sailors. Military units in Syria with their troops and missiles right at the Syrian-Israeli border.(Not Israeli troops at the Iranian border, the other way around.) Still using Hamas and Hezzbollah as proxies against Israel and in Yemen.

One can say the US hasn't changed it's policies to Iran, OK. Iran hasn't changed theirs in any way shape or form, either.

Trump, and in this case many, say the agreement was a bad one. It never passed or was even offered to be passed by the U.S. gov't-telling in itself-and Trump has well communicated the intention to fix/remove/cancel deals that were bad for the U.S.. Trade deals, TPP, NAFTA...and this one. He's doing it. Simple.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
What I find funny about all this, the same people that are screaming pulling out of this agreement could start WW3, seem to be the same people saying we need to crush Russia economically, of these two countries only 1 could actually force a fight with the US. (hint its not Iran)

Erm, Russia and Iran are allies. Last week they cemented a bilateral agreement with Putin announcing he'd back them on conflict. Russia has filled the power vacuum the Trump admin has created in the middle East since 2017. Launching missiles and killing Iranians and Russians in Syria to try and cut off Russian access to ME resources (so Russia can be crippled economically) is a double edged sword.

DP

DP

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: bastion

Largely due to the evidence that, diplomacy didn't work with NK. It, if one looks at it objectively, isn't working with Iran, either. I see zero change in Iran's actions, post agreement. Still challenging US military in the straight. Even in one incident capturing US sailors. Military units in Syria with their troops and missiles right at the Syrian-Israeli border.(Not Israeli troops at the Iranian border, the other way around.) Still using Hamas and Hezzbollah as proxies against Israel and in Yemen.

It didn't work with Iran either, the last deal did. Even the US administration openly admit that it was working with Iran and the claims it wasn't were fabricated and a cut and paste hatchet job of the Annexed IAEA report from years back.

They're precisely the lies Trump is spreading trying to pretend the agreeement covered any of that. The facts are it was by no means perfect but completely effective in stopping nuclear weapon development