Almost 70% of 8th Grader are Stupid...

a reply to: Aazadan

Hmmm, so basically, imagine if because someone invented the pocket lighter, people became so convinced that we no longer needed to rub two sticks together that no one felt like they ever needed to bother to learn how ... and then it no longer become possible to make pocket lighters for a significant length of time.

That is the possibility we face with technology. So I think there is a still an argument to be made for learning how to calculate the old fashioned way before jumping onto the "let the computer do it" train.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Aazadan

When I was in 8th grade, I knew all of that stuff. I had learned long division in 3rd grade and was being exposed to fractions by then as well. My 8th grade years *was* algebra.

www.cde.state.co.us...

This suggests that Algebra and above is typically for high school, not 8th grade.

a reply to: ketsuko

Not really, because all of the information is still documented in countless books, to say nothing of digital formats. And the people who are building the technology still learn how it functions. Does everyone need to know how to rub 2 sticks together when everyone has a lighter? Or do only the lighter manufacturers need to know, and everyone else can learn if they want to?

Former 8th grade teacher here. A lot of it is issues such as poverty, broken homes and communities, nutrition, economic class and capital. That much is well evidenced. Then there are the school system issues such as unequal and inadequate funding for schools, overworked teachers, illegally large classroom sizes, no materials, underpaid staff, etc etc.

a reply to: Edumakated

a reply to: Starhooker

They have machines for that now.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Aazadan

When I was in 8th grade, I knew all of that stuff. I had learned long division in 3rd grade and was being exposed to fractions by then as well. My 8th grade years *was* algebra.

www.cde.state.co.us...

This suggests that Algebra and above is typically for high school, not 8th grade.

algebra was offered in 7th and 8th grade when i was young.

originally posted by: subfab
algebra was offered in 7th and 8th grade when i was young.

Algebraic principles are such as solve for X and balancing an equation are. Anything more advanced typically is not.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: subfab
algebra was offered in 7th and 8th grade when i was young.

Algebraic principles are such as solve for X and balancing an equation are. Anything more advanced typically is not.

in my grade school algebra was taught at 7th and 8th grade. it was a very good public school. but this was the late 70's early 80's perhaps things have changed since i was a 13 year old kid.

The teachers are too busy teaching kids to protest against all of our constitutional rights, instead of teaching math and English.. So no surprise here..

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: rickymouse
The fact that kids have access to computers to do the math means they do not think they need to memorize the principles. When you do math in school without the aid of a calculator, it conditions you to learn to think and to organize your thoughts and practices. The new system is not working, it can't unless they get rid of computers and calculators. We could not even use a slide rule to do our math when we went to school, and look at what our generation created. We were smart enough to employ those who had ideas and could build the technology that has been created, technology that is coming back to haunt us lately. Maybe we really were not that smart to create that stuff afterall. My generation could not fathom how technology could destroy our kids and grandkids.

Imagine if someone said that because their generation invented the pocket lighter, which lead to a decline in peoples ability to start fire by rubbing sticks together.

If they did not invent the butane lighter, I would have not caught my hair on fire when trying to hear is the lighter was out of fuel when it wouldn't start. I was fifteen at the time. Back when I was fifteen, kids could buy lighters and carry around pocket knives. I remember one time when I was about twelve, a teacher asked me if I had a light when she was in the break room, my class was right outside their breakroom, I lent her my lighter.

I don't have a child in the public school system, but I did 6 years ago.

Now, I volunteer at an underprivileged middle school that is currently in danger of closing due to poor test scores. I offer an art program for the kiddos that have to stay at the after school program. A full 80% of these kiddos have no respect for authority. These are 13-15 year olds. A full 20% of them are sweet, awesome kids. I'm sorry, but parental involvement is HUGE here. Please don't tell me how downtrodden these poor people are, as I was once one of them. I, like the 20% of parents of kids at these schools, stayed involved no matter how poor, tired and frustrated I was after a 50 hour workweek.

There is an elephant in the room here that people won't talk about. A LARGE percentage of parents from certain cultures don't stress education enough at all. Sorry, but it's a thing. It doesn't mean the kids don't have it in them, but the parents aren't doing them any damn favors. I don't care how much money we throw at them, the parents HAVE to be involved for it to work.

a reply to: Aazadan

Not in the school system I learned in.

Pre-Algebra = 7th

Algebra = 8th

originally posted by: Milkweed

originally posted by: StallionDuck
Title irony! Wanna go back and fix that?

Don't forget he didn't use proper punctuation. He/She must not be proficient in English either.

The input field for the title automatically escapes special characters to prevent sql injections.

a reply to: artnut

This is the truth, and I know many will say they're too busy working ... but were the parents from those same culture groups working any less hard or any less impoverished prior to the institution of the War on Poverty which is when so many of these problems started to really take hold?

I know there was a discussion with some ladies who had grown up in those days and recall how important education was to their parents and what their parents sacrificed in terms of time to make sure they got that education even in segregated schools.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: MteWamp

good stuff.

You should email it to trump. Though my guess is once he got rid of the DOE he will just use the money for his wall.

Our government wants us to be dumb.

I really don't have an opinion on "what our government wants", partially because I don't have anything even RESEMBLING reliable intel on what the government wants, but MOSTLY because it's completely irrelevant and I couldn't care less.

And in the interest of disclosure, I'm just brainstorming, so it actually has nothing to do with either you personally, or any remarks you may have made.

So lets examine the statement "Our government wants us to be dumb". In RL, as I said, I have no idea if that's true, but let's proceed under the assumption that it IS true.

The thing is, in the grand scheme of things, it's absolutely irrelevant.

If you WANT to be educated, educate yourself.

Since the end of the War of Northern Aggression ended, in 1865, any person in this country is free to learn anything they want to learn.

Why would any kid not avail themselves of that opportunity?

If you're a kid, LEARN what you need to know. Take responsibility for your OWN fate.

There are an alarming number of young adults in this country and the world that couldn't stick their finger up their ass with both hands.

After a while, it get's to a point where you start actually considering the possibility that yes, I think there might be a possibility that yes, it's not out of the realm of possibility that yes, these intellectual bottom feeders might actually BE stupid.

On the other hand, watching some 18 year old modern day brain trust walk right into traffic because they are actually too stupid to look up from their phone does have a lot of potential entertainment value.

This is the goal of government education under Progressivism.
Government failures = demand for more money and control over the problems they create.
You can't educate if you are indoctrinating.
Private schools are the answer.
Given the failure rate of public schools in urban areas I'd say your throwing money down a toilet.

a reply to: artnut

Parents shouldn't have to teach their kids if taxpayers are paying that much money for education. I am a metal fabricator that is my job, I do not know how to teach kids Maths and English. I can teach a kid how to fish, throw a baseball and other basic things a kid needs to know, but all a parent should have to do is make sure their kids are doing the homework that is assigned and that's it.
In my opinion public education (aka free daycare) needs to be completely overhauled. With all the technology we have we can easily create a curriculum that is done on the internet. A lot of changes would need to take place though, it would affect a lot of everybodys day to day life. But if public education is not working something drastic needs to be done.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
The teachers are too busy teaching kids to protest against all of our constitutional rights, instead of teaching math and English.. So no surprise here..

That's because protesting is all they can do. They can't do math and English. Maybe they can't even speak English. I had a job once where one of the people could not read a clock. We had to tell him the time every morning so he could sign in. He could read a digital watch but not a round clock.

Many schools provide a good education. It's mostly the inner city schools that are the worst but there are problem areas scattered everywhere. Some of these groups start out with a low IQ population and then compound that with crack babies, etc. We end up with a bunch of thugs with unrealistic goals. They can't pass the eighth grade but think they are going to be an astronaut or veterinarian

We need to face the fact that these kids are STUPID. We need to plan some career path for them besides just prison. They can't qualify for the armed services. In the old days, if you were some violent kind of idiot, you join the army and try to fight Indians. No more.

I propose we start a new branch of the service. Something like the Foreign Legion. You can be violent, stupid, criminal, whatever. You will probably get killed but if you survive so many years you can get out and be a member of society in good standing. Many of these thugs mellow out after 40. You just need to keep them in there until then. You can even let the illegal aliens in as a path to citizenship. The service will sort them out.

a reply to: ketsuko
Indeed education was extremely important back when I was a child, because it was the only way you had a chance of lifting yourself out of poverty.

Some of my classmates were the the first in their family to finish high school. So having a high school diploma was a big thing. My father didn't get any further than high school but my mother was a nurse, so my Dad was really big on us graduating high school, and wanted us to go to college. He struggled to make that happen. He didn't live to see it, but all eight of his children went to college and all did well in this world.

Many parents didn't understand the homework that their children brought home, but they made sure that they completed their assignments and would sit down with the teachers and ask for help if it looked like their child was not doing as well as they thought they should.

Back then very few children had the chance to go to college, so it was a big deal when one did. Everyone wanted the best for their children, and the only way out was through education. That is no longer true. High school diplomas and college degrees are a dime a dozen. Since so many people have them it is no longer a guaranteed chance for a better life.

While I think that a high school diploma and a college degree is still very important, they just are not valued as much in our society as they used to be. For most it is thought of as an automatic thing, back in the day, they were viewed as gifts and blessings.

originally posted by: toms54

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
The teachers are too busy teaching kids to protest against all of our constitutional rights, instead of teaching math and English.. So no surprise here..

That's because protesting is all they can do. They can't do math and English. Maybe they can't even speak English. I had a job once where one of the people could not read a clock. We had to tell him the time every morning so he could sign in. He could read a digital watch but not a round clock.

Many schools provide a good education. It's mostly the inner city schools that are the worst but there are problem areas scattered everywhere. Some of these groups start out with a low IQ population and then compound that with crack babies, etc. We end up with a bunch of thugs with unrealistic goals. They can't pass the eighth grade but think they are going to be an astronaut or veterinarian

We need to face the fact that these kids are STUPID. We need to plan some career path for them besides just prison. They can't qualify for the armed services. In the old days, if you were some violent kind of idiot, you join the army and try to fight Indians. No more.

I propose we start a new branch of the service. Something like the Foreign Legion. You can be violent, stupid, criminal, whatever. You will probably get killed but if you survive so many years you can get out and be a member of society in good standing. Many of these thugs mellow out after 40. You just need to keep them in there until then. You can even let the illegal aliens in as a path to citizenship. The service will sort them out.

This isn't hate speech at all ATS mods.


Lord jesus, and its probably infecting others.