Almost 70% of 8th Grader are Stupid...

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Nothin
Sorry: don't agree.
Could you show us even one public school curriculum, that indeed teaches "basic life skills", from any country?
Like: Critical thinking; balancing a budget; self defense; growing,catching and preparing food; first aid; natural medicines and healing; fair trading and bartering skills; respectfulness and kindness; spirituality unattatched to any dogma; etc...

What you just mentioned are not basic life skills.

The only part of life that isn't optional is earning enough money to pay taxes, and afford food.

As far as your list though, I'll go through them one at a time.

Critial Thinking - How is this a necessity in life? Not everyone has to think, they only have to react. Just look at this website for an example, many preach critical thinking, but those same people are the first who will go look for an "alternative" viewpoint from some Russian backed website that has an agenda.

Budget - Again, not necessary. Having good financial management is helpful, and it would be nice if more schools taught this, but most already do have it as an elective.

Self defense - Why? Doesn't it make more sense to create a society that doesn't need to be violent?

Catching and preparing food - You mean, going to the grocery store and buying something like most sane people do? Most schools do offer cooking classes as well, and if they don't, they've presumably taught you how to read and reserach well enough to find a cookbook and use it.

First aid - This one would be useful to teach. So what do you propose we cut from the current schedule to make room for it?

Natural medicines - Why? Teaching about medicine would be lumped in with first aid, but why natural medicines specifically? Shouldn't people know how to use any basic medicine?

Trade and bartering? That's called contract negotiation, which is one that I think should be taught as it's the single highest value activity one will ever perform, and opportunities to practice are rare. It would result in much higher wages.

Respect - That's not a basic life skill, neither is kindness or spirituality.

That's quite the post! Staggering!
Thinking is not necessary... Wow!

It seems we do not agree on any aspect of education at all.

But have been left flummoxed by this stunner:
You actually argued that people do not need to learn about (growing), catching, and preparing food, because sane people know that food comes from grocery stores.

Speechless...

a reply to: odzeandennz

They're highly proficient in social media though...

Well perhaps the social media aspect can somehow be incorporated into the school learning process since the kids of these generations connect with it. School projects & assignments that involve utilizing the social media as well as the youtube video compilations they are so fanatical about and involved in.

Its the HOT item on the kid list so why not use it and take advantage of it somehow in the schools...

My kids ask me at-least once a week to make their own youtube videos. I have not set them up on their own account yet. Due to age limits and of course I need to learn it all myself. Perhaps an instructional class on how to do the videos and then the class assignment. Perhaps a youtube video presentation involving their classroom work to then be graded. I think the old fashioned or old school style of assignment is to present a project in front of the classroom.

leolady

originally posted by: Nothin
But have been left flummoxed by this stunner:
You actually argued that people do not need to learn about (growing), catching, and preparing food, because sane people know that food comes from grocery stores.

Speechless...

Only 1% of the population (and that percentage continues to decline) needs to know how to produce food for everyone. Knowing how to grow crops is not required information, and for the most part isn't even a productive use of time. If you spend an hour tending to your garden each day in order to save $1000 on food over a year, you're working for $2.74 per hour.

I think that it is the parents failing the children.

Are the parents reading to their children daily and when the children are old enough do the children read to the parents?

Are the parents helping their children with math and making sure their kids can do math?


Both my kids were very successful in school and in life. We helped them learn to read and do math. I remember doing flash cards with them for multiplication tables and we made a game of it. So my kids learned reading and arithmetic at home and it made school a breeze for them.

Schools are not responsible for kids learning. Schools teach but if students arn't paying attention then the lessons are wasted. My kids also did sports, art and music outside of school so they learned at an early age how to budget their time. I think this helped them in college.

I don't think that schools are to blame, I think parents need to take responsibility for the actions of their children

a reply to: Aazadan

You're talking about cost.
It's incomprehensible to me that you want to put a dollar figure on something as valuable as learning to grow one's own food.
-
Listen man: we don't agree on anything.
Not interested in exchanging with you anymore.

a reply to: Wildbob77

Parents engaging in their child's learning is a must as reading extensively, to me, is a gateway to knowledge and critical thinking.

Educators could look at other ways to engage children, but, what about the child's desire, or lack thereof, to want to engage?

Here is another view by the psychological community. It's a short read, so don't pass it over, it is worth it.

www.turned-offchild.com...

originally posted by: Nothin
a reply to: Aazadan

You're talking about cost.
It's incomprehensible to me that you want to put a dollar figure on something as valuable as learning to grow one's own food.
-
Listen man: we don't agree on anything.
Not interested in exchanging with you anymore.

Why not? A dollar value is placed on everything else. Every action you take has a cost attached to it, and the best course of action is to maximize your value.
Negotiating a job offer? That could be worth $20,000 a year for 6 hours of prep, $3333/hour.
Tending a garden? $2.50 an hour.
Working your normal job? $150/hour.
Watching TV? $0/hour.
Eating out rather than cooking? Just about breaks even (assumes $25 for an hour to eat vs $10 and 2 hours to shop, cook, eat).

The silence is defenning.

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: Wildbob77www.turned-offchild.com...

Thanks: that was an interesting point-of-view.
Digging deeper than the unfortunate title of this thread, and seeking to understand what is happening from the child's perspective.

Learned helplessness and how it affects a child, coupled with the insight of one's explanatory style, shows that child psychology is still a relevant field, depite all of the criticism.

The conclusion from the article:

Once we truly understand the problem children are facing in school and look at these children in a different light, then we can work on ways to change their thinking about themselves.

Seems clear that people carry these characteristics into their adult life, and the workplace.


PS: really like the saying in your sig.

You have to remember that half the children in the US are below average.

Think about it

originally posted by: Wildbob77
You have to remember that half the children in the US are below average.

Think about it

If you want to set a hard line and call everyone below it "below average" that's true. What's more accurate is to say there are ranges on the curve called standard deviations. Everyone within a standard deviation of that hard line is called average whether above or below.

It takes around two standard deviations below average or so before a child is considered ready for RTI in most cases. And around two standard deviations or more on the other side typically earns the gifted label.

a reply to: Wildbob77

Perhaps our expectations of them are below average. Or, should I say, we don't speak their language.

a reply to: InTheLight

No, it genuinely takes far more effort and exposure to new concepts for kids that far below average to absorb new concepts, but it takes a more than just being slightly below the accepted average line.

If the average learner takes 6 to 8 repetitions of a new concept to master it, then the slow (or below average learner) is going to need 3 to 5 more days of repetition to master it. Just exactly how many days of repetition to a concept do you expect teachers to pencil into their instructional time before moving on?

Understand that every day you spend repeating a concept instructionally is day when the kids who mastered that concept are missing instructional time that could be used to advance and learn new material, absorb more. For gifted learners, who are as far above average as slow learners are below, they will either know what you're teaching already, which means you're wasting their time to begin with, or it only takes 1 or 2 days of your time to teach them. Every day after that of your 6 or 8 days is boring for them. As your average learners catch on, they're in the same boat.

But we should tack on another 3 to 5 days to catch up the slow learners too? Worst case, you have 13 days, nearly 3 weeks (almost a month of school time) devoted to a single concept in an effort to make sure every kid knows it, and some of the kids in your class will be wasting that entire time, and it's equally possible that some of your kids *still* might not get it when all is said and done.

This isn't about speaking different languages so much as it is about trying to jam a bunch of pegs into the same hole because that's what the public education model decrees.

a reply to: ketsuko

The public education peg doesn't fit.

It doesn't, but don't tell the teacehrs' unions that and don't tell many people here that.

Because if you advocate for its removal, you hate poor kids.

originally posted by: ketsuko
It doesn't, but don't tell the teacehrs' unions that and don't tell many people here that.

Because if you advocate for its removal, you hate poor kids.

One size does not fit all.

"Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defence with our peaceful methods and goals." - Dwight D. Eisenhower, 17/1/1961

Gotta keep 'em stupid to herd them like sheep you see.