Police Threaten Arrest If Citizens Speak Out Against the State-Sanctioned Death of Baby Alfie Evans

originally posted by: Wardaddy454
Clearly the UK government is monitoring ATS, or at least some members feel they might be, and are afraid to voice their real opinions on this issue for fear of reprisal.

It makes sense now. None of you can get away with saying that socialized medicine might be terrible in some aspects.

Because surely no one here would think that a child being taken off life support, surprising the doctors by continuing to live for another 4 days without food and only a little hydration (odd, since NHS wants him to die), isn't suffering in and of itself. If he wasn't suffering being off life support, then explain to me how he was suffering while on it.

I'm reminded of a story in Texas. A father refused to let anyone take his brain son son off life support. He went as far as to bring a gun with him and stand watch over his son, until being arrested. You can disagree with that, but you can't argue with the results, being that he bought enough time for his son to wake up. He spent 10 months in jail, but that is a small price to pay to keep your child around for longer.

Yes it's that people are scared of reprisals. Not that they gave a different opinion or might actually be better informed about the situation than you are.

Say for example that it was a decision of the courts not the health service. So no nothing to do with
'socialized medicine'.

Or that the poor kid had been treated for 18 months at the cost if absolutely nothing to his parents. Damn evils of 'socialized medicine'.

Or that the doctors had said could take days or weeks so hardly surprised by the time taken.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy

Why withdraw nutrients then if the belief is that the condition will kill the patient? No need to withdraw nutrients in such circumstances, rather obviously to any rational thinking person.

Is it rational to keep alive by any means a body that is already dead ?

Because it is only due to medical intervention that the body was alive

but in a coma.....

(Coma is a state of unconsciousness in which a person cannot be awakened,
fails to respond normally to painful stimuli, light, or sound, lacks normal
wake-sleep cycle; and does not initiate voluntary actions.)


SO NOT REALLY ALIVE BUT EXISTING? Is that living?


The medical profession did everything in their power (for without their

intervention he would have died 18 months ago) over that period there was NO

improvement only deterioration.

They had been keeping him from dying, which was the 'natural course' of events.


I have said before, and am asking again.....

FOR WHO's BENEFIT WAS ALFIE BEING KEPT ALIVE?

Certainly not his own.

originally posted by: Wardaddy454
It makes sense now. None of you can get away with saying that socialized medicine might be terrible in some aspects.

As I said in a previous post, this is not a problem of what you call socialized medicine, this was a legal problem. Most European countries have some kind of "socialized medicine" (like Portugal, where I live) and we do not have this kind of problem.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
Apologies, I just struggle to see how you appear to support removing nutrition when someone is dying, that has only one possible effect, to help facilitate death.
I mean no offence.

No problems.
One of the reasons I accept (not support, I would need more information for that) is what I said in a previous post about my father's last days. Although he was conscious and was able to move, his brain was being slowly affected by the prostate cancer that had spread for all his body and one of the effects was that he almost didn't eat in the last two days (much to my desperation). From my understanding (once more, I think a professional opinion would be a great help here), when people are close to dying the body starts shutting down all secondary functions are focuses on keeping the brain alive, and for that it only needs oxygen and very little nutrients.

originally posted by: ArMaP

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
I meant I cannot know their intentions, then asked a question about their intentions withdrawing nutrients.

Why should they keep the nutrients if they thought he would die in one day or two? As I said in a previous post I think that people close to dying do not need food. Too bad we don't have a doctor to help us on this discussion, it would be great to get a professional opinion.

Not a doctor but have been involved in this stuff more times than I care to count and I have tried to explain this countless times but it feels like smashing my head against a brick wall.

People are not starved to death to facilitate death rather it just reaches a point at whitch there is no benefit and nutritional support is withdrawn. If you have terminal cancer and at the end of your life nutrition is withdrawn it’s not starvation that kills you it’s just the disease process.

this story is a load of bull# , the government can go # themselves and so can the police issuing that statement !

a reply to: MysticPearl

Communist England? There is bearly anything left of England, the UK, now that's different. Did you know people where cautioned by police for flying the St Goerges Cross on effing St Georges Day! (thats our patron Saint's day, kind of a big deal)

But a Communist state? Of Britain? It's more conservative here than over in the land of the 'free' I'm quite sure.

As for the NHS, a commy state would probably benefit us. As opposed to a tongue in cheek, the sideways attempt of a conservative government to disassemble the whole thing while perpetuating that tits failing!? Horse SH**!, Sabotage of the highest degree!! The privatization of the healthcare system, the same as how the public schooling system are now, 'Academy's' .. Kids cant even bring your own packed lunches in to school anymore, you have to eat, whatever they 'serve'. If you go to, an academy...

But of course, that's what they want, all their blue-blooded buddies want. That and kids arses, model human beings this lot!

Communist?! Nobody across the pond laughed.

a reply to: D0M1N0

just saying likes but we should totally just overthrow the UK government , they make look # slinging chimps look civilised

have you seen the live feed from parliament , its just a bunch of rich twats shouting at each other wae golf balls in their mouths makes # slinging chimps look civilised. They are a bunch of chancing bastards, far worse than fraud benefit claimants , they get paid to shout at each other all day and act like children , that is if they dont fall asleep on the tax payers penny. then later they sneak off to the bogs to snort lines of good gear then off to their private clubs to # little boys and then lie about it until rumbled by the WHIP then they sign off their soul to some other corporate tool!

the government are #e !

burn down Westminster its not worth saving , nothing but corruption and evil spews out of that place and supposedly for our benefit .

Oh actually it doesnt really matter anyway because based on western logic , its only a matter of time before the UK is invaded by our god fearing cousins in the states for humanitarian reasons !

a reply to: notsure1

OH !! How refreshing to see how the freedom of speech is enjoyed by the "subjects" of the queen in the U K.

If memory serves me right, this is a part of the reason there was a big fight which broke out here in 1776.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: ArMaP

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
I meant I cannot know their intentions, then asked a question about their intentions withdrawing nutrients.

Why should they keep the nutrients if they thought he would die in one day or two? As I said in a previous post I think that people close to dying do not need food. Too bad we don't have a doctor to help us on this discussion, it would be great to get a professional opinion.

Not a doctor but have been involved in this stuff more times than I care to count and I have tried to explain this countless times but it feels like smashing my head against a brick wall.

People are not starved to death to facilitate death rather it just reaches a point at whitch there is no benefit and nutritional support is withdrawn. If you have terminal cancer and at the end of your life nutrition is withdrawn it’s not starvation that kills you it’s just the disease process.

I've also said the same thing a few times here, people just can't except the truth and would rather blame the boogieman that is the goverment or the NHS. Life support is turned off because the disease has done it's worse and will kill before starvation even has a chance to occur.

a reply to: notsure1

Staff condemned the “guerilla tactics” of the so-called Alfie’s Army supporters, which included abuse and threats online, and even suggestions that they would pull the fire alarm and force evacuation of the hospital.

Merseyside Police eventually issued a warning and said it would investigate comments being made about the hospital online.

www.independent.co.uk...

The way I think it should work is this.....

If your parents knew before you were born that you were gonna be all messed up and they didn't abort you right then, you should have the right to sue them when you grow up and life sucks because you were born all messed up.

And on top of that, you should have the right to sue the doctor who delivered you and/or the hospital where the delivery was done. Doctors should know better. They see it every day. The huge numbers of people who have crappy lives and suffer constantly because they were born that way.

The technology exists to look for a huge number of problems before birth. Not sure if that would have worked in this case but the point is that it would in many cases.

If people are going to deliberately produce kids with severe medical problems (and millions do) maybe it is time to let an objective party in.

a reply to: BrianFlanders

No..

originally posted by: soberbacchus
a reply to: notsure1

Staff condemned the “guerilla tactics” of the so-called Alfie’s Army supporters, which included abuse and threats online, and even suggestions that they would pull the fire alarm and force evacuation of the hospital.

Merseyside Police eventually issued a warning and said it would investigate comments being made about the hospital online.

www.independent.co.uk...

What a bunch of retards to threaten that kind of behavior to a children's hospital no less, anyone supporting this behavior should really be ashamed of themselves.

I’ve never seen so much ignorant crap, even from some I respect, such as BFFT, as there in this thread. And I’ve been a member here for around 12 years. This site has become a cesspool of foaming at the mouth politcal half-wits.

Mike Adams has done some digging into this issue and it's sickening.

www.naturalnews.com...

originally posted by: 99problems
Mike Adams has done some digging into this issue and it's sickening.

www.naturalnews.com...

You are right. Mike Adams is sickening.

originally posted by: notsure1
All the more reason to love America...

Yup. Great health care system you have there.

How much does it cost when you get taken to hospital with appendicitis and you don't have health insurance? Or injured in an accident?

Yeh, our NHS has problems, no one contests that. But I like that I have cover, that no matter what, I have a public health service. It isn't perfect, but it's better than what you have. Or more correctly, do not have.

At least I won't lose my home in remortgaging due to bills of £100k+

originally posted by: 99problems
Mike Adams has done some digging into this issue and it's sickening.

www.naturalnews.com...

But that's a lie tho. The guy is speculating. He wasn't executed by lethal injection.

That link and that site are complete horsesh*t.