Volunteer police to patrol schools

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
We have volunteer services, like firemen.

So volunteering for a community is not against federal law then? I'm confused?
The volunteer police here are governed and covered regarding liability the same as regular police.
If volunteer firefighters are allowed why do you think volunteer police would be against federal law? I don't see much difference, protecting the public just in different ways.

Lets say i am a telephone line repairman....volunteering to set up and help maintain fire services isn't an issue. We are providing a service for ourselves, and may have access to some funding to help.

Lets say I am an officer for the local PD. If i decide to volunteer my time in an official capacity as an officer for an employer (i.e., a school district), that district needs to pay me.

Lets say I am an at home mom and I decide to volunteer to chaparone my kids class...that is part of an outreach program that isn't considered employment.

I hope that helps...i understand why its confusing.


ETA: this may help...

...these volunteer officers are codified in official district policy. Then one day one of them calls in. How do you get a replacement in? Force a volunteer to show up? That is slave labor.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

If you cannot imagine what issue there may be then why are you also sure the issue was raised by the defense?

The issue is that an all be it off duty Police special took it of there own accord to survey a POI and collect evidence to support a criminal act.

It's not exactly the way, or in the manner, proper Police are trained to operate.

Different story if the guy just happened to be passing by and witnessed anything suspect.

Just saying.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

What happens if a volunteer firefighter fails to turn up for work? Not being awkward but any questions/issues with volunteer cops could be asked equally about volunteer firefighters.
I appreciate we are different nations, but volunteer cops have worked well in their current incarnation here since the 1830's. I can't see how a similar service could not be transferred to the US, along the lines of your volunteer firefighters.

a reply to: andy06shake

Well the court was happy with the conviction, the victim was happy with the conviction, so I guess it was okay.
I get it, you don't like volunteer police constables

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

I neither like nor dislike volunteer police constables.

I do however question there capability and/or motivations to do the job in question in the same manner as the normal constabulary.

As is self-evident with the manner in which said evidence was obtained via your stalking story.

Fact is we require real Police in sufficient numbers and not in our schools, which if anything would be social works department, but out there tackling the real criminal element.

originally posted by: andy06shake
As is self-evident with the manner in which said evidence was obtained via your stalking story.

What was wrong with it? Any private citizen can help another out gathering evidence of crimes. As you said, he may well have given evidence as a private citizen, so why are you complaining? The court convicted, the victim is happy, everyone except you and the stalker seem unhappy.

Fact is we require real Police in sufficient numbers and not in our schools, which if anything would be social works department, but out there tackling the real criminal element.

Agreed about police budget cuts, but did you even read the OP, I'm not calling fgor police in UK schools, I'm suggesting a similar service such as special constables for cash strapped US local counties. You are in Scotland if I recall correctly yes? You have special constables there as well, you even pay them if they do their annual required number of hours.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

What happens if a volunteer firefighter fails to turn up for work? Not being awkward but any questions/issues with volunteer cops could be asked equally about volunteer firefighters.
I appreciate we are different nations, but volunteer cops have worked well in their current incarnation here since the 1830's. I can't see how a similar service could not be transferred to the US, along the lines of your volunteer firefighters.

Volunteer firefighters aren't scheduled. They show up when a fire blazes, and if they can't make it they don't go. If no volunteers show up to fight the fire, the fire burns until someone does. That rarely happens...its normal people like you and I just trying to keep their communities from burning when they aren't busy doing other things.

We have volunteer police too. Regular citizens can volunteer to do various police tasks.

Neither are the same as asking people to volunteer doing what they get paid to do daily on their days off.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

What happens if a volunteer firefighter fails to turn up for work? Not being awkward but any questions/issues with volunteer cops could be asked equally about volunteer firefighters.
I appreciate we are different nations, but volunteer cops have worked well in their current incarnation here since the 1830's. I can't see how a similar service could not be transferred to the US, along the lines of your volunteer firefighters.

Side note: what you are talking about isn't the same as the OP.

The OP is recommending that people with officers commisions utilize said commission in a quasi on duty capacity working for free for an employer that, in the past, has paid for said service.

You are referencing citizens volunteering to do civil service work for emergency services. I don't think we need George Zimmerman patrolling our schools.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

"What was wrong with it? Any private citizen can help another out gathering evidence of crimes. As you said, he may well have given evidence as a private citizen, so why are you complaining?"

The manner and capacity in which the evidence was acquired depending on whether or not he was a Police or private citizen as the motivation could be very different.

Like i suggested if you cannot imagine what issue there may be then why are you also sure the issue was raised by the defense???

I am in Scotland yes, but last time i looked we are still all in the UK.

The problem with our Police force is self-evident really. It's not more part-time Police we require its actual Police.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

we do have a constabulary in Texas. They are mostly worthless officers of the court. They waste gas, get free coffee, and serve court papers.

in many counties they are elected, yet unpaid, positions. LOL

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy

originally posted by: Shamrock6
As far as your OP, a lot of agencies have what we call reserve or auxiliary officers. A reserve officer's level of training and authority depends entirely on the agency he volunteers with, and it can be anywhere from fully sworn and armed to completely unarmed and shuffling paper and answering phones.

Thanks for the reply, interesting, so it seems there is already a similar model in place as it is. Would it work at county level do you think?

It would, in my opinion, depend entirely on the agencies involved. Where I'm at, we have civilian volunteers but none that act in a law enforcement capacity. They're used to free up officers for other assignments. If they were to try and put that sort of plan in to place here, they'd have to find funding to train up the volunteers.

Like is usually the case, it comes down to money.

a reply to: andy06shake

Okay, but again, the Crown prosecution service & magistrates court were happy with the conviction, the victim was happy with the conviction, it seems only you and the stalker have an issue.
Oh, and you have your own legislation, justice system and police in Scotland so your UK line is moot in this discussion.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

LMAO!
Your description could apply to many public serevants here in the UK

a reply to: smkymcnugget420

where we eat tide pods and riot over sports victories

"We?" What do you mean "we?" I haven't done either of those things. If you have, that's pretty cool man you should blog it.

a 98 IQ (america's average)

That's actually pretty much dead middle of "average" IQ.

is a little better than functionally retarded.

Math is hard.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
If they were to try and put that sort of plan in to place here, they'd have to find funding to train up the volunteers.

Like is usually the case, it comes down to money.

Sadly that is exactly why my region's police service is only recruiting volunteer constables at the moment. Massive budget cuts by central and local government so the specials are pretty much propping up our regulars.
I don't see things changing under the current government either.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

"Okay, but again, the Crown prosecution service & magistrates court were happy with the conviction, the victim was happy with the conviction, it seems only you and the stalker have an issue."

And the defense lawyer, you forgot about him/her.

The issue is the moot point, as crown prosecution services and magistrates courts are happy with all convictions.

"Oh, and you have your own legislation, justice system and police in Scotland so your UK line is moot in this discussion."

Don't mean i cannot have an opinion or know how laws operate down south, not exactly apples and oranges our respective justice systems.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I just recognised a fantastic volunteer service which we've had in it's current incarnation for nearly 200 years and wondered if something similar could benefit US communities. Genuine altruistic thoughts behind my decision to post the OP.

a reply to: andy06shake

I welcome your opinion, as I do anyone's
Last time I was in Scotland though I was reminded why I like living in the South West of England, the cops I saw looked like stormtroopers, roided up and chewing gum furiously.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Well if truth be told our Police are stormtroopers. LoL

Same could be said for Police all over the world all the same, not that there are not some good'yins to boot.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I just recognised a fantastic volunteer service which we've had in it's current incarnation for nearly 200 years and wondered if something similar could benefit US communities. Genuine altruistic thoughts behind my decision to post the OP.

It could. There would be hurdles to overcome. But civil service is something that lacks in US culture, and I'd encourage anything we can do to see some return.

We are kind of at the mercy of our laws, same as you guys. And since we had that whole civil war, we carry a lot of extra baggage in our laws.