A v. B

The only thing everyone can currently agree on is that the the United States is divided philosophically.

We have "group A": liberal, pro-choice, socially accepting, for the common good, and likely voted for Clinton.
We have "group B": conservative, pro-life, nationalistic, rugged individuals, and likely voted for Trump.

Most people I interact with on a daily basis are those that I would consider to be above-average intellect. Some are group A, others are group B. But it's pretty easy to see that they definitively fall into one of the two groups. To get along and maintain a working relationship, it best to just avoid certain topics.

Recently I have been asking myself, "Why?" How can above-average intelligence folks come to such diametrically opposed points of view? We all have the same data inputs on which to base our opinions, right? If we have the same inputs, and process them intelligently, we should come to similar conclusions, right?

~~~ thought break ~~~

A couple years ago I really got into the whole "Mandela Effect" phenomena. A lot of the highly circulated "effects" were things I could whole-heartedly agree with. Some were little things, such as logos, dialog in movies, etc. But others seemed more substantial such as quotes from the Bible and the remembered deaths of certain people. The effects have slightly diminished in their intensity as of late, but some things in this reality do not match my recollection of history. I could blame it on age or memory, but the recollections are so clear.

~~~ thought break ~~~

So maybe, just maybe, these two conditions are related. Those that are affected by the altered memories, commonly referred to as the "Mandela Effect" and those who are not.

Myself, I am affected by the "Mandela Effect" and find myself firmly in the "group B" line of thinking.

I would be interested to hear where you are, specifically, if you can relate to the Mandela Effect, and also whether you consider yourself to be in group A or B. I'm just going on generalities here, whichever group you feel more affinity towards, not every detail I listed above. Further, if you have any thoughts on how or why this might be happening, please include those as well. Thanks.

Those who can't or never had to or just plain don't want to A. Those who did or can or will do B.

originally posted by: ketsuko
Those who can't or never had to or just plain don't want to A. Those who did or can or will do B.

Sorry, not sure I understand what you are saying. Can you elaborate?

a reply to: AnonymousCitizen

How we process information has to do with critical thinking skills, not IQ. Critical thinking skills in no small part are impacted by environment like home growing up and the mindset of the teachers in the schools attended.

Then you have the age issue. Our brains don't develop full critical thinking abilities until age 25 depending on the individual. Problem is those who are not there yet, are unable to understand they are not fully adult yet due to this random number of 18 when we call them adults. Then suddenly when you near 30 you realize it's true.

The Mandella Effect is more a case of people not accepting the fact that memory is not trustworthy for any of us. All of our memories are flawed and tainted and that's just how it is. Some refuse to accept that and assume they actually remember things accurately, when none of us actually do. Our own conceit leads us to believe our memories are infallible.

a reply to: AnonymousCitizen

I'm a bit of both groups.

But could never find myself voting for Clinton.

I guess, if my back is against a wall and I have to actually "choose", I'll always choose the side of whatever topic that is for more freedom.

originally posted by: AnonymousCitizen
The only thing everyone can currently agree on is that the the United States is divided philosophically.

If all you listened to was the news, that's how it would look. Most people I know are balanced between the loud, radical extremes, and maintain a healthy "Golden Rule" attitude.

But in a nation of 350 million, you're bound to get some outliers and mentally unbalanced people who will not be helped with medication and should be removed from society one way or another like you would a rabid dog. But with so many people, there are also a larger number of outliers, and the damage they do is amplified in the media.

I will go out on a limb here and suggest that there is really nothing we can do that will be both effective and not step on the rights of innocent people. All we can do is react.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
Our own conceit leads us to believe our memories are infallible.

I'm counting on my own memory being fallible, because it's as close as I can get to changing the past. I'm counting on the fact that as bad as my memory is, there's a good chance I never did some of the stupid, mean things I remember doing in the past.

Maybe that's a positive result of the Mandela Effect.

originally posted by: AnonymousCitizen

originally posted by: ketsuko
Those who can't or never had to or just plain don't want to A. Those who did or can or will do B.

Sorry, not sure I understand what you are saying. Can you elaborate?

Collectivist = People who do not want to do for themselves, by themselves. It is an ideology of envy. They are people who look at what others have that they don't and think they would be better off with "sharing" which is really taking from those who did do for themselves, by themselves rather than simply doing for themselves, by themselves. They often couch this in terms of having compassion for those who genuinely cannot do for themselves, by themselves, but they are usually only concerned with themselves and what don't have that they want.

That is group A and the deluded who think collectivism sounds great because they don't know any better (the young usually).

Group B are the ones who want to do it the other way. They want to do for themselves, by themselves as much as possible. They could care less if others have more and if they are concerned with it, it's as a goal to be aspired to rather than something to envy and feel bitter about. They understand the very real sense of self-esteem and success that comes with genuine achievement and want everyone else to understand it too as much as possible. They're usually accused of being greedy for not wanting to be collectivized for the satisfaction of group A because they want group A to realize their own success rather then be pulled down for having earned success themselves.

That is group B.

None of this says anything about how to handle the ones who really do need to be supported by compassion in society because they simply cannot do for themselves, but understand that this really isn't group A or group B but a third group entirely.

Since you did not exclude foreigners, here is my humble opinion. Germany is very much influenced by US politics, through the media. I write this to explain, not to bitch about that, remember please. Also remember, that the term "liberal" is used in another way. In europe this term basically drains down to NOT nanny everything but more freedom for the single person while valueing dignity.

Nearly 180° twisted, although many liberals call themself to the "left" side of things. That being said....

I´ll have to add that the terms you used do not fit exactly to me, but group B does the most. I live in Bavaria. I do believe, that if you work hard -provided that you get the chance (important!).

However, I do not believe in a welfare state where hard working men and women provide the food for the lazy. I do believe in change, but it´s important to not hestitate any important decisions.

What I dislike is political correctness whenever it hinders saying the truth. Not any personal truth but facts. I have zero respect for anyone who thinks his view of the world is the best. Life is a learning process and without humbleness, this is not possible.

That being said, I find it disturbing how the liberal hardcore left has overtaken our media. I also defend your President, where it is due, I also criticize where it is needed (IMHO). Because I dislike unjust, generally.

Those are the reasons I partake in some political threads on ATS, as a foreigner. I´m do not think of myself as a Trump supporter, but I registered, because of the role the USA plays in the world, that HRC would have been a disaster.

Personally, I can´t stand her elitist behavior but I do not know her personally. I doubt it would change something because I consider her as a deceiving snake.



edit: please excuse my bad english, had to edit some mistakes, I´m sorry!!!

Damn it, I´ll just leave it as it is (the grammar fails)

a reply to: Blue Shift

No doubt over time our memories of our own stupidity are rewritten by us. Maybe it's a defense mechanism of sorts.

A good way to demonstrate how memories differ is to sit down with a group people you grew up with and compare how you remember events. I've done that and quickly realized we all remembered things differently.

a reply to: Blaine91555
Offtopic: Ever heard of space-time synesthesia? It´s not that uncommon, recent studies showed that 5-15% think and memorize that way. If you can remember other things like smell, what else happened, feelings you can count on your memory.

I was always flabbergasted why only I seem to remember stuff in such details and others, simply not. Now I know.

First, thanks for all of the responses. So many different ways to think about this.

My point was that everyone I know, mostly good, intelligent people, are falling into diametrically opposed viewpoints. Why? How can we come to such differing opinions?

Just makes no sense to me.

A and B are both correct.

A is 2 + 2
B is 1 + 3

They both explain the number 4, but A only cares about even numbers and B only cares about odd numbers. These realms do not cross, yet they get to the same answer. Alternative facts.

You can be concerned with only even numbers and the world is going to hell in a hand basket.
Or you can be concerned with only odd numbers and the world is doing great.

The choice is yours. I assume the above average intellectual would understand this and make a point to not imply their side is more correct or better, but I wouldn't call myself an above average intellectual so what do I know.

originally posted by: AnonymousCitizen
The only thing everyone can currently agree on is that the the United States is divided philosophically.

We have "group A": liberal, pro-choice, socially accepting, for the common good, and likely voted for Clinton.
We have "group B": conservative, pro-life, nationalistic, rugged individuals, and likely voted for Trump.

27% of voters voted for Trump...28% voted for Hillary, so that leaves 45% that didn't vote for either. The problem is the media paints your A & B as far left and right, but the reality is the vast majority are slightly left or right, but then that is boring and doesn't provide good talking points.

We see it everywhere...Trump is painted as far right with about 10 negative labels, but at the end of the day we will see his choices are more moderate and even leaning left many time. Once again not good talking points and even when he is left sided such as talking about 2 million DOCA instead of the 800k Obama wanted it is painted as he holding them hostage because he just wants to give and take on the deal...

a reply to: AnonymousCitizen

But what about Group "C"?
Those who fit in neither A nor B.....but have some traits/beliefs of both groups.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
No doubt over time our memories of our own stupidity are rewritten by us. Maybe it's a defense mechanism of sorts.

Thanks. It makes me feel better to believe that I wasn't necessarily a horrible person, but that my memories are untrustworthy.

It's funny how many people like to fantasize about traveling into the past, but honestly, if we can't even remember our own pasts accurately, how can we trust historians to do better, particularly anything prior to the invention of photography? I wouldn't find it surprising to travel back into the past to see some historical event only to discover that it never happened that way at all.

originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe
a reply to: AnonymousCitizen

But what about Group "C"?
Those who fit in neither A nor B.....but have some traits/beliefs of both groups.

Then we're reviled by both A and B.

We're witches.

Burn the witches!

yaaaaaaaaaaa!

originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe
Those who fit in neither A nor B.....but have some traits/beliefs of both groups.

The extremists call those people "sheeple."

originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe
a reply to: AnonymousCitizen

But what about Group "C"?
Those who fit in neither A nor B.....but have some traits/beliefs of both groups.

Quote from OP

...and also whether you consider yourself to be in group A or B. I'm just going on generalities here, whichever group you feel more affinity towards, not every detail I listed above.[sic: emphasis added]

a reply to: verschickter

Not really, as a member of group "C"...I don't really feel all that comfortable in either group.
I think there has to be a group that is neither A nor B.

IMHO