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Senate passes tax reform bill

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posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 10:55 AM
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a reply to: Aazadan


Removing the individual mandate is the only reason I can afford to purchase it. Once I'm off Medicare/Medicaid later next year I'll have to purchase for myself. With higher prices that simply won't be possible.

I'm sorry, but I cannot continue to subsidize your healthcare.


I have Medicare and Medicaid due to being disabled. I pay a buy in now that I have a job, once that job becomes full time when I graduate this spring, I'll lose it entirely and have to pay out of pocket. I just checked the exchange, currently $550/month. More than I pay for rent. Paying two plans like that, once my mom loses her disability coverage plus paying two peoples rent.... I make good money, I'll make even better money starting in April. I still won't be able to do it.

That's why we want rid of Obamacare altogether. it doesn't work without me paying for it, and I'm tired of paying for others to have something it prevents me from having.

I have had one major heart attack (including a stent), my wife had to have an intra-arterial hole (1") plugged, and now has been diagnosed with type II diabetes. All with absolutely zero insurance. Sorry, but you'll have to pay your own way this time. We don't have anything left.


No heart attack here. If it comes to pass, I'm simply done with this country. I refuse to participate in a system which limits my options and condemns sick people to death or bankruptcy rather than take care of them.

Good luck with that. Nothing in this world is free... and sometimes the hidden costs are the highest of all.

TheRedneck




posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 10:58 AM
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originally posted by: Abysha
a reply to: FatSoldier

Like most of us already thought, "deficit hawk" Republicans are a shiny myth used for pandering to their base.

Old men scribbling on paper that nobody had time to read, dictating our futures.

How is it we are still doing things this way?


The projected $1.4T increase in the deficit is a marginal increase. 10 years from now, without the tax bill, the CBO projects we will be about $32T in debt. With the tax bill, it's $33T. And that's not even for sure. In order to come to the conclusion the debt would increase $1.4T because of this bill, they had to assume a GDP growth rate of only 1.9% averaging over the next 10 years. You'd be hard-pressed to find any 10-year period in modern American history where GDP growth averaged that low. In other words, unless we have historically low growth over the next 10 years, that $1.4T increase to the debt is not going to happen. And even if it does, that's a hiccup on our debt. We have much bigger problems, the out of control spending.
edit on 2 12 17 by face23785 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 10:59 AM
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a reply to: MOMof3

One of the amendments to the Senate bill concerns assisting caretakers of family members with tax credits for services/money spent. That means that, in addition to your standard deduction doubling and your tax rate dropping, you'll get credit for the medical help.

Congress is planning on GIVING you money!

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 10:59 AM
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originally posted by: face23785
All the changes have been being talked about all week. They were no surprise. Fail. You got lied to bro.

And let's not pretend any Democrats were gonna vote yea even if they re-read the entire bill. A few of them may vote yes on the reconciled bill, because they know their talking points are false and at that point if it's about to come law anyway it'll be politically beneficial to them to get on the record supporting a beneficial tax bill, even if it does prove them to be liars for opposing it now.


I know they weren't going to vote for it, I wanted to see the reform fail.



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 11:01 AM
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originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: face23785
All the changes have been being talked about all week. They were no surprise. Fail. You got lied to bro.

And let's not pretend any Democrats were gonna vote yea even if they re-read the entire bill. A few of them may vote yes on the reconciled bill, because they know their talking points are false and at that point if it's about to come law anyway it'll be politically beneficial to them to get on the record supporting a beneficial tax bill, even if it does prove them to be liars for opposing it now.


I know they weren't going to vote for it, I wanted to see the reform fail.


Yes I'm aware of that. You still got lied to. They all knew what the changes were. They purposefully misled you to think some phantom changes got snuck in that they were unaware of. That's a straight up lie. Don't be ok with being lied to as long as the lies suit your agenda.



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 11:01 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

I'm a youngster too in your eyes, nearing the 40's. The reason I sold off my business was Obamacare, I was making over 6 figures, and payed my guys well, but I was hitting a point of expansion that would require me to provide insurance, and well to put it simply, the money wasn't there. I sold out, and stuffed the money in retirement to avoid the taxes. I can't touch it before 60 without huge penalties, but it will grow like I expect if markets keep an upward trend.

The insurance thing is a cluster fudge to say the least, and while all the guys I employed are still employed, they aren't as happy. They say it's too corporate now.



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 11:01 AM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Vector99

Cool beans.


That's one thing I seriously hope stays in after reconciliation, because it also includes the employer mandate. In my situation, I am qualified for some well-paying jobs, but the sheer cost of insurance under Obamacare means I am too expensive to hire just because of my age. The young'uns out of college have less experience and are less capable, but the insurance cost is so high they get first shot.

TheRedneck


Maybe you should have taken responsibility and become productive when you were younger and healthier then?



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 11:05 AM
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originally posted by: BlueJacket
a reply to: Aazadan

It sounds to me like you're unwilling to help yourself. Instead you want the government to do it with the hardworkers money, so you can have this mythical quality of life that apparently everyone deserves by right of birth.


Not unwilling at all. I'm about to complete my 5th degree and I make $60/hour. A comfortable quality of life is the #1 responsibility of government. It should be their first and only concern to eliminate suffering. You lived apart from your wife and kid and had to work 3 jobs just to get by because of government failure. Which in turn means because of voter failure... like boiling lobsters that pull each other back into the pot to die.



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 11:05 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

Well, that's a more diplomatic way of being told I should just go die quietly for the sake of someones wallet, than I've been told before.

Edit: Maybe you should be asking why you don't have access to health care? It couldn't possibly be because your state governor decided that you don't deserve it?
edit on 2-12-2017 by Aazadan because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 11:06 AM
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So... does that mean the government plans to cut wasteful spending?

I doubt it.



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 11:08 AM
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a reply to: Vector99

Most people don't see what Obamacare does. It feels different sitting in the big chair; you have to make tough decisions. Folk like us can make those decisions, but when our hands are tied... well, that's jobs that are gone.

The really big boys have an option we didn't have: go overseas. Nothing changes over here that way, except the jobs are gone and everyone is poorer. A poor economy can't grow businesses, so we're all left in this crater of economic doom, and TPTB are busily telling us there's no way out because that would make it harder to control us. And in the meantime, other countries are booming economically while we sit and cry and suffer.

Aazadan is a good example. He's convinced that this tax bill will destroy him, when in fact it will help him more than he knows yet. All because it's easier to read Time and MSN than it is to read through the bill.

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 11:08 AM
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originally posted by: eXia7
So... does that mean the government plans to cut wasteful spending?

I doubt it.


Haven't you been keeping up? This administration has already found gazillions of waste, fraud, and abuse, and lots of redundancy.

This administration is very focused on finding waste and redundancy.
edit on 2-12-2017 by queenofswords because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 11:11 AM
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originally posted by: Vector99

originally posted by: CB328
This is horrible for America. How they hell could anyone be stupid enough to believe this is needed when the corporations already have 85% of the money?

This is going to be terrible for America as real people will have even less money and rights than we have now.

I challenge you to cite one part of this tax bill that will be detrimental to the majority of tax payers. I double dog dare you even!


Easy. Repeal of the estate tax plus low pass through rates with huge deductions will ensure that America will be ruled by a "royalty" class. based not on birth, but by how much money you are able to take from their fellow citizens.

Myself I will pay more taxes, because the half of my income I spend on healthcare is no longer deductible. Almost anyone who pays state taxes will be paying more as well. A larger deficit down the road will be bad for every American. Don't even mention the dollar, which will fall hard on this law, causing huge increases in commodity costs. In two years even Republicans will realize this is a very damaging tax bill. BTW sell the news.



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 11:11 AM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
Aazadan is a good example. He's convinced that this tax bill will destroy him, when in fact it will help him more than he knows yet. All because it's easier to read Time and MSN than it is to read through the bill.


It won't destroy me, but it will make things harder. I see absolutely no reason to support a government that does that. It's not about the money, it's about the fact that it's directly siphoning wealth from the poor to the rich.



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 11:14 AM
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a reply to: Aazadan


Well, that's a more diplomatic way of being told I should just go die quietly for the sake of someones wallet, than I've been told before.


Er, you mean like you just did me?


originally posted by: Aazadan

Maybe you should have taken responsibility and become productive when you were younger and healthier then?


Nice. "Take care of me, dammit, and be nice to me while I tell you to go jump in the lake."

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 11:15 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

I don't spend money on caretaker services. He is recovering well. My tax rate will increase. Why can't people just please speak the truth, no matter how bad. The real middle 50k-75k are going to lose with this deal. In a year deficits will matter again and states will be starved for money. I hope the democrats do not win in 2018 so Republicans have to own It for once.



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 11:17 AM
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a reply to: Aazadan


It won't destroy me, but it will make things harder. I see absolutely no reason to support a government that does that. It's not about the money, it's about the fact that it's directly siphoning wealth from the poor to the rich.

So you openly admit you want the government to take care of you? At $120K/year? Rather than take care of yourself?

You realize you are the rich, right?

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 11:20 AM
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originally posted by: FatSoldier
a reply to: MiddleInsite

I think it's safe to say people cannot predict what a new law would do once it is enacted. Obamacare was said to decrease cost, and it turned out to increase cost.


Nobody that knew the basic outline of what they were proposing for obamacare believed it would reduce cost for one second. That was an impossible promise based on the increased coverage and everyone who had any basic economic knowledge knew it.

Likewise anybody that thinks this tax bill will not boost the economy is not too smart. You don't have to be smart, just look at how the stock market has reacted since Trump has been elected, and the resulting growth in GDP. Then notice how it reacted to the possibility the Tax bill will be passed.



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 11:22 AM
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a reply to: MOMof3

No, no, no, you misunderstand.

YOU are the caretaker. YOU will get a tax credit for what YOU spend taking care of him. That includes YOUR TIME.

That's assuming that provision stays in, of course, after reconciliation. I hope it does.

There are also some states that offer assistance for family caretakers. You might want to look into that. Unfortunately, Alabama ain't one of those.

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 11:23 AM
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a reply to: Aazadan




A comfortable quality of life is the #1 responsibility of government


Its becoming more and more obvious that they no longer teach civics in school. That is most assuredly NOT the purpose of government in the United States. Its to safeguard your rights, like the "pursuit of happiness." Pursuit meaning to pursue, a verb, implying action...IE each individual has the right to pursue happiness.

And oh, by the way, when I lost my job 7 years ago, it wasnt the governments fault, where in the hell do you come up with these statements? By working 3 jobs I was able to provide food, shelter and a pretty good qualityb of life for my wife and child, its obvious you are young and dont have children, otherwise you might see "love" as a huge motivator.

The other byproduct of busting my hind end 7 years ago, means I and my family are enjoying the highest quality of life now, we have ever had.

Get back with me in a couple decades, experience is an unbiased instructor.




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