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Senate passes tax reform bill

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posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 12:14 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: nwtrucker
While it's understood the UK hasn't been an economic power for a long, long time. Sitting there and not comparing the Corporate tax tare of, say, the UK vs the corporate tax rate of the US and other nations is where you go off the rails.

I wonder at the unemployment rate is currently in the UK?? Yes, there will be more profit for business.

Which we have ZERO problem with. Shocking?? Cut the 'evil' profit levels and you cut jobs. Increase the competitiveness with what every other nation has done to protect the business community to wit,low tax corporate tax rates and HIGH INCOME TAX RATES.

So you lefties have already been screwed, personal tax-wise and the U.S. citizens no quite as much.So now the US will increase jobs and as a result wages and the average citizen will profit as well as corporations.

Gee, that's terrible. LMAO



The major businesses are all on record, this tax cut will not increase wages or jobs. It's going 100% to shareholders.


Please. Your smarter than that. You imply the 'majors' don't want and wouldn't profit from major corporate tax cuts???

The 'majors' obviously preferred a much higher profit margin that a TPP would have assured.

Even then, screw the majors' goals. The small business community LOVES it.




posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 12:16 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan


I don't yet have the resources to move.

But you think a family of poor Haitians on a raft in the middle of the Caribbean, do?



Most countries worth immigrating to require speaking the language, having a specific amount in savings, and a job lined up.

And yet you want to leave the one that doesn't.

Son, you have much to learn about life. I only pray those lessons aren't too hard on you, because life requires you pass them. Country of residence don't matter.

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 12:16 PM
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originally posted by: BlueJacket
a reply to: Vector99

Yep, Im an average American householder as well, and we are going to save 4k/year from what I have surmised, plus the process doesnt appear like its going to take the entire Saturday and part of Sunday to complete, nor will we have to pay huge money for preparation software etc...

People just love to complain, the only people that benefited from Obamacare was the less fortunate, monetarily poor of the country...I literally lost around 4800 in monthly payments from that, PLUS I got taxed on top of it for choosing the best plan my work offered and paying through the nose for it so my daughter could get the work done she needed.

I hear a lot of belly aching from folks, that from my perspective...only know what they feel, not any actual information...as usual.

You say you are average and will benefit.

How much does your household make?



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 12:18 PM
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originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: Vector99

originally posted by: Allaroundyou
a reply to: Vector99 Have you read any of the proposal? The big corporate company's currently pay a 35% corporate tax. That number will drop to 20%. I am still reading this behemoth of a thing. And there is very little information about this out there. I doubt this plan is good for average Joe but we will see I guess.



This plan already admits it will create deficit. The only way to negate that deficit is government spending reduction. The reductions likely won't come from benefit programs, but rather trimming the fat from the steak of governmental employment, how is that bad?


Wrong, increased jobs and wage increases tax income. It has every time personal income has been cut. From JFK to Reagan. The problem was and always has been the bastards increase the spending.

Why would a business add jobs if it didn't need them?

You don't add another cashier if the lines aren't longer.

What makes the lines longer? People having more money to spend. Corporations are not people.



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 12:19 PM
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Trump looks like he is going to get tax reform for the first time in 31 years. The majority of Americans will pay less tax and business will get a huge boost.

So, the liberal talking point of no major legislation is dying, so the new one will be some lies about the bill being for the rich only.

...and so the merry go round continues.



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 12:20 PM
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originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: Bluntone22
I have a question.

If the left's opinion that rich people and corporations dont pay taxes now is true, why would they want this tax cut?



Even better question is, if higher taxes on the rich are better for the economy, why did Obama and the Democrat-controlled Congress extend the Bush tax cuts in 2010?

Answer: because we were trying to recover from a recession and they knew the increase in taxes would be bad for the economy, and they'd get the blame. They were forced to make a rational decision based on facts instead of just push rhetoric, because they were in power at the time.

Nothing is rational about this 'tax reform' being imposed by Republicans now.



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 12:25 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck


you, your wife and your mother, all have serious health issues and don't have insurance?



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 12:26 PM
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originally posted by: BlueJacket
a reply to: Aazadan

Wow...your literally imagining problems now...

Obama raised the deficit 10 trillion, this bill at it's worst, without spending cuts is a maybe 1.9 trillion after 10 years.

Reduce government and total irresponsible spending, and everyone wins.

Always fun to see people forgetting that the great recession happened under Bush's watch.

The recovery from that was long. The Dow Jones Industrial Average was at 7,949.09 on Jan 20, 2008 and closed at 19,804.72 on Jan 19, 2017 - more than doubled under Obama's administration.
edit on 12Sat, 02 Dec 2017 12:29:20 -0600America/ChicagovAmerica/Chicago12 by Greven because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 12:30 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan

Opportunity isn't being given what you want. Opportunity is having the right to try and get what you want.

I'm the first person in my family to hold a degree. My Dad, the smartest man I ever knew, held a 6th grade education. My daughter has an Associates in Psychology she got at age 19, Suma Cum Laude. She chose to go into retail, because it's what she wanted; now she is in management. My son is a lead CNC machinist in his early 20s and is planning on a mechanical engineering degree.

Every generation, better and stronger than the one before them.

I have a home that is mine. I have a shop to work in, that I built with my own hands. I have ideas for new products I am developing. I got those things because I worked for them, not because someone handed them to me. They mean something to me. Even now, I am not expecting the government to help subsidize me; I only want the government to get out of my way. I'll handle it from there.

That's freedom. What you think about it is irrelevant.

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 12:31 PM
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a reply to: knoxie

My mother has insurance; we don't.

My issues are not that serious. The ticker is still ticking. My wife's diabetes is now controlled.

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 12:35 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: face23785
If you really believe you've "suffered" so much, what are you still doing here? People literally float across 100s of miles of ocean on rafts trying to get here to escape actual suffering. You are incredibly spoiled and ungrateful for how fortunate you are to live here, and deep down you know it that's why you're still here. If you do leave it won't be because you can't make it here.


I don't yet have the resources to move. Most countries worth immigrating to require speaking the language, having a specific amount in savings, and a job lined up.

1. I only know English, so I have to teach myself another language first.
2. I only have 6 months of living expenses in savings, any decent country requires a minimum of two years worth (which they see as 1 year for yourself+spouse, even though I'm single). In addition to any other savings accounts.
3. I don't have the professional resume to get a job elsewhere yet. Give it another couple years of work history and that will probably change.


If you can't save up to move with the kind of income you have, you've made a personal choice that it's not that high of a priority. My case still stands.



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 12:36 PM
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originally posted by: UKTruth
Trump looks like he is going to get tax reform for the first time in 31 years. The majority of Americans will pay less tax and business will get a huge boost.

So, the liberal talking point of no major legislation is dying, so the new one will be some lies about the bill being for the rich only.

...and so the merry go round continues.



Most Americans see right through that lie. The Democrat party believes in this perpetual myth that the average citizen doesn't understand percentages.



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 12:38 PM
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originally posted by: Tempter
Good! Now we can bring the deficit in line by cutting military spending, right?


amiriteguyz?


No. Our military spending fluctuates between 20 and 25% of our budget. Entitlements cost us much more. I'm not for doing away with social safety net programs, but clearly some reform is needed. We simply don't have the money.



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 12:39 PM
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a reply to: Greven

Actually, the Dow never hit 19,000 until Trump was elected. It remained essentially flat for most of Obama's administration. Since the election, it has steadily climbed upward.

The stock market prices are an indication of business confidence in a bright future. It shows that under Trump, businesses think the future economy is bright.

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 12:39 PM
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originally posted by: BlueJacket
a reply to: Aazadan

Um, the prices already sky rocketed...and I got to pay for it

Haha you think medical costs weren't rising already.
If you care about the truth, read this:

The $18,764 average family premium in 2017 is 19% higher than the average family premium in 2012 and 55% higher than the average family premium in 2007 [Figure 1.10] . The 19% family premium growth in the last five years is smaller than the 30% growth between 2007 and 2012, or the 51% premium growth between 2002 and 2007 [Figure 1.13].

Before the ACA, average premiums rose 51% over 5 years (2002-2007).
During the span where the ACA was passed, average premiums rose 30% over 5 years (2007-2012).
After the ACA was passed, average premiums rose 19% over 5 years (2012-2017).

From 1999 to 2010, premiums rose almost 131% - more than doubled - an increase of over 11% per year. The ACA was passed in 2010. From 2010 to 2017, premiums rose 36% - an increase of a little over 5% per year.
edit on 12Sat, 02 Dec 2017 12:45:33 -0600America/ChicagovAmerica/Chicago12 by Greven because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 12:45 PM
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originally posted by: Greven

originally posted by: BlueJacket
a reply to: Aazadan

Um, the prices already sky rocketed...and I got to pay for it

Haha you think medical costs weren't rising already.
If you care about the truth, read this:

The $18,764 average family premium in 2017 is 19% higher than the average family premium in 2012 and 55% higher than the average family premium in 2007 [Figure 1.10] . The 19% family premium growth in the last five years is smaller than the 30% growth between 2007 and 2012, or the 51% premium growth between 2002 and 2007 [Figure 1.13].

Before the ACA, average premiums rose 51% over 5 years (2002-2007).
During the span where the ACA was passed, average premiums rose 30% over 5 years (2007-2012).
After the ACA was passed, average premiums rose 19% over 5 years (2012-2017).


And that's not taking into account that the premiums were being subsidized by government revenue, which comes from us, so all they did was shift the premium increases to another place. And the ACA was supposed to make our premiums go down.



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 12:51 PM
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originally posted by: MiddleInsite
a reply to: Vector99

Nobody can say. No one has had a chance to read the whole thing. They were scribbling changes to it after midnight last night. Do YOU REALLY know what's in it? Have you read it? And how many Senators do you think read that two inch thick bill last night?


That is my concern.

Remember what happened the last time a big, fat bill passed too fast....and very few [no one] had time to read it......



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 12:53 PM
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originally posted by: BlueJacket
a reply to: Aazadan

It sounds to me like you're unwilling to help yourself. Instead you want the government to do it with the hardworkers money, so you can have this mythical quality of life that apparently everyone deserves by right of birth.

Hard work has little to do with anything. It's mostly luck.

I worked my ass off way more for jobs that pay far less. I knew people who worked multiple jobs but got nowhere - they played by the rules. Hard work and no payoff.

I was lucky to be born who I am, to the family I was, and given the opportunities I had. Congratulations on winning the lottery of life. You should refrain from chastising those who have not.

Not everyone has feet to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 12:53 PM
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a reply to: face23785

I found some info on that...


The government will spend nearly $10 billion more this year, rising from about $32.8 billion in 2016 to about $42.6 billion in 2017, a 28 percent hike.

Over a span of 5 years, 28% per year comes out to a 244% increase over 5 years.

Thank you, Obama.

Not.

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 12:58 PM
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originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: face23785
All the changes have been being talked about all week. They were no surprise. Fail. You got lied to bro.

And let's not pretend any Democrats were gonna vote yea even if they re-read the entire bill. A few of them may vote yes on the reconciled bill, because they know their talking points are false and at that point if it's about to come law anyway it'll be politically beneficial to them to get on the record supporting a beneficial tax bill, even if it does prove them to be liars for opposing it now.


I know they weren't going to vote for it, I wanted to see the reform fail.


Yes I'm aware of that. You still got lied to. They all knew what the changes were. They purposefully misled you to think some phantom changes got snuck in that they were unaware of. That's a straight up lie. Don't be ok with being lied to as long as the lies suit your agenda.

Oh okay, so what does this change say:




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