Free Will?

Is free will good or bad?

I left it a broad question to find out what everyone thinks and not just whether or not everyone agrees with me.!

Damn, I thought you were giving something away with that title

How can free will ever be a negative concept,?

[Edited on 30-6-2003 by Netchicken]

I vote yes, free will iz a good thing, however, i can c where the commies, Nazis & Aryans are coming from... In a controlled state with no free will, there would be no anger, no depression, no hate, no suffering, no crime... But isn't it worth the price... I think itz definitely worth it to have all of those cons in order to have happiness, love, freedom, and the continuing spirit of individuality... We must ensure that free will and the freedom of choice lives on... I think George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Patrick Henry & all o fthem would cry if they saw how messed up America is now... I"m 4 FREE WILL!!!

How can free will ever be a negative concept,?

Take the act of murder. If that person didn't have free will the other person would not be dead.

Don't get me wrong I think free will is the best thing that we possess.

I think more peole would be killed if they didn't have "free will".
Think about old Russia.Millions were killed,and they had no free will.The same with dictatorships.They murdered millions of people as well.Plus all the people that died trying to live free.
Free will is not a negative think.But no free will is.

I am talking about the kind of free will that allows you to have a choice about anything. I am not talking about the kind of freedoms that a government can give or take away.

First off define 'free will'/choice. Then define 'rightness' and wrongness'. Then ask yourself, is there an actual 'rightness' or wrongeness' in relation to 'freewill'/choice?
Is it not 'us' (ie: you, me, 'they', 'it') who, through a thought, a word, or an action, which ultimately define 'rightness' or 'wrongness' in the process of 'free will'/choice?

As I have posted before, I'll say it again. 'Rightness' or 'wrongness' is not an intrinsic condition, it is a subjective judgement in a personal value system. By our own subjective judgements do we ultimately create and define Self. By our personal values do we ultimately determine and demonstrate Who We Are.

And again I have mentioned before, and will do so again. There are those among us who say that G-d has given 'us' the greatest gift called or known as 'free will'/choice. Yet these very same people claim that if you do not obey G-d, He will send us to Hell. This then I ask:

What kind of 'free will' is that?

Does this not make a mockery of G-d -- to say nothing of any sort of the true relationship between G-d and us?!

Is it fear of Hell, etc., that 'we' need in order to be, do, and have what is intrinsically right?

Must 'we' be threatened in order to "be good"?

And then, what is "being good" or "being wrong"?

Who gets to have the final say on this?

Who sets the 'guidelines'?

Who makes the rules?

How could G-d judge G-d's own creation and call it 'bad'?

If G-d wanted us to be and do everything perfectly, would He have not left us in the state of total perfection whence we came? The whole point of the process called Life was for us to discover ourselves; create ourselves, as we truly are -- and as we truly wish to be. Yet we could not be that unless we also had a 'free will'/choice to be something else. Should G-d then punish us for making a 'free will'/choice that G-d Himself have laid before us? If G-d did not want you to make a second choice, why would He create the other than the first? This is the ultimate question we must ask ourselves before we assign G-d the role of a condemning G-d via free will/choice and "rightness" or "wrongness". The direct answer is yes, we may do as we wish without fear of retribution. But it may serve us, however, to be aware that for every free will/choice, there are consequences and consequences are results of natural outcomes. These have nothing to do with retributions or punishments. Outcomes are simply that. They are what results from the natural application of natural laws. They are that which occurs, quite predictably, as a consequence of what has occured. That which we percieve as punishment or retribution, or what we would call 'evil' or bad luck, is nothing more than a natural law asserting itself.


regards
seekerof


[Edited on 30-6-2003 by Seekerof]

I think free will can be equally good or bad.

Free Will or Predistination? It might help you.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

I am talking about the kind of free will that allows you to have a choice about anything. I am not talking about the kind of freedoms that a government can give or take away.

Ok, free will the ability to choose as you please.Everybody has free will.At least in their minds.Most people have enough sense to use their free will with some commen sense.Even though somebody might get murdered,I still say it is a good thing.I would rather live in a world with all the ups and downs.The good,the bad ,the ugly.Than live in a world were there is no independant thought.

Well if u wanna put it that way then we don't have complete free will. Evry1 is limited by something.. 4 Example if u wanted 2 not drink watrer for 3 weeks u couldn't b/c u would die. If u wanted 2 kill some1 u couldn't w/out having to face justice (death 4 urself). We don't hav complete control... Evry1 is limited by something...


Even God, while he is omnipitent he can't do whatever he wants.. GO has to be perfect, God had to be just, God can not lie..

Free will is absolutely OK.

If you're religiously minded you should remember that God gave Man free will.

Man just needs to learn how to use it properly.

Without free will man will go nowhere. With it he can reach for the stars.

I didn't say that you had to like the choices you have but you do still have the choice.

You CAN decide not to drink water for three weeks. You might die but you still have that choice!

You CAN decide to kill someone. You might go to jail but you still have that choice!

Originally posted by Tassadar
Well if u wanna put it that way then we don't have complete free will. Evry1 is limited by something.. 4 Example if u wanted 2 not drink watrer for 3 weeks u couldn't b/c u would die. If u wanted 2 kill some1 u couldn't w/out having to face justice (death 4 urself). We don't hav complete control... Evry1 is limited by something...


Even God, while he is omnipitent he can't do whatever he wants.. GO has to be perfect, God had to be just, God can not lie..

You are merely talking about natural laws Tassadar.
One can choose to not drink water despite knowing that it will or might cause death......its simply a choice/freewill. And if you wanted to kill someone.......again choice and freewill....... you could, it again is a matter of choice and freewill. You, we, 'it', 'they', have virtually complete control of choice and freewill.....you are limited by natural laws and their consequences.

You said: "Even G-d, while He is omnipotent, he can't do whatever He wants."

Hmm, I seem to think G-d can 'bloody well' do as He see's fit. Who governs G-d? Who can tell us whether G-d has limitations in relation to His not being able to do as He wants? Is not defining G-d as imperfect, not just, not lying, etc., a matter of opinion, interpretation, defining, subjective judgement?


regards
seekerof

Itz not *FREE* will then itz limited, free is not cheap, they are different

I believe in God, in some form, and I think that Free Will is a good thing because it gives people a chance to show if they are genuinely good. I think those who chose to use their Free Will for good will be rewarded one day, some how.

But if you don't believe in God, then I guess Free Will is natural. Humans came into being with Free Will (as far as we know), and so it can never really be taken away, even if dictatorships etc. try....

Free will is the greatest gift we have been given. What a wonderful privilege to be able to love the Creator willingly, freely and of my own choice.

I give it a 10.

Is Free will really a gift? some may call it a curse...

If evry1 has free will then the criminals will keep on commiting crimes. Thefts, beatings, rapes, murders, they'll never stop.

U can't call free will a perfect gift w/out looking at the problems it haz caused.

I call it a perfect gift...and the recipients less than perfect.

*aight u've got a point Valhall, I apologize.

sry,
Tassadar