Is The Alt-Left Craziness Driving Centrists To The Right

originally posted by: Gryphon66

You keep repeating information about the Electoral College ... that has noting to do with the popular vote or popular opinion.

All this is a hard thing to call one way or the other. Most states were very close so we could say the vast majority of the country was very close to 50/50 popular vote. We then have one state CA that gave Hillary 4.3 million more votes than Trump, so I'm not sure how one could suggest popular opinion other than just looking at raw numbers since they work with your narrative. In the end Trump won and he won on the platform he campaigned with, so I'm not sure how you think your popular opinion fits into all this or what you think Trump should change his platform to based on this.

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: DrStevenBrule
a reply to: Blue_Jay33

The Ctrl-Left definitely drove me toward the right.

I could not believe the craziness and intellectual dishonesty I saw coming from leftists and their leaders.

I did not want to be associated with these people or their ideals and I haven't voted Democrat in almost 10 years.

Yeah it's getting crazy. Just as crazy on the right/conservative side too. I'm a registered independent. I think I'm only voting independent/third party from here on out, the rest of my life. There's a tide coming and sooner or later it will reach a tipping point.

I've been registered as Independent since my 18th birthday.

There are crazies on both sides but one is far, far worse in my opinion.

Sad we have to vote for the lesser evil most of the time.

Democracy ehh?

originally posted by: pavil

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: burdman30ott6

I doubt it. The GOP has failed as a whole. There are literally maybe a dozen or so who work for the people and actually make legislation for them. They are also political outsiders.

The way it works in reality is the lobbyists pour money into candidates. When one stands against those interests they put money in the opponent.

50 percent of the public disagrees with the gop.

The only stabilizing force would be a centrist who can bring back working together.

The nature of politicians unwilling to admit other points of view have a right to exist and should work with compromise for the whole of america, is to have unstable legislature. Trump is tearing out Obama's legacy. The next Democrat will tear apart trumps etc...it's far harder to do when Americans in general benefit from the legislation.

So I doubt at this point in history without a moderate centrist leading congress to compromise for the good of all Americans that the trend of flipping philosophy after failure won't continue.

Yep..... what was the last major piece of Bipartisan legislation? Medicare Part D? Both Sides will dither on Infrastructure, Healthcare and Taxes till we are in another Recession. It's not that far away.

If we on both sides could get our collective wills together and vote out Everybody, maybe we'd stand a chance of getting consensus.

Not many. Rand has tried and done some with booker and Harris on criminal justice reform which I see as a sign in Paul's case of a principled person smaller things every now and then but the rhetoric is at an all time high considering the public is pretty much split lib, conservative, with technology centrists making up the backbone.

The money in campaigns from lobbyists needs to go or even decent politicians will resort to backstabbing to stay in power starting out a champ ending up a bum.

a reply to: muzzleflash

I want to know. If you can conclusively show me that Republicans are absolutely anti-science, I'll join your side in the debate. Maybe I am wrong and they pulled the wool over my eyes? Show me. Explain it.

The party of anti science are the social engineers ignoring evolution, and running around telling boys and girls they have a 'choice' to be one or the other or neither.

LOL.

originally posted by: Kettu

originally posted by: pavil

originally posted by: Kettu

originally posted by: pavil
a reply to: Kettu

Thats fine......look at any exit poll you want. Going further left cost you the election. I'm glad you don't believe/realize that.

The Democratic party is more centrist now than ever. LOL

You obviously don't hang out with a liberal crowd, do you?

More centrist than what? This is almost surreal.

The American Democrats would be considered conservative in any other industrialized democracy on Earth, comrade. )))

Well there's your problem. They're American Democrats, not democrats in any other industrialized nation on earth.

originally posted by: Gryphon66


So, feel free to provide any backup for your opinions ... but for the rest, you've bored me to ignoring your posts.

You won't ignore my posts I'm afraid.

Like everyone else I've gotten into it with over the years, you'll grudgingly respect me and then eventually the grudge will wear off.

That's because I'm doing you a favor, I'm forcing you to up your game.
We always tend to hate it when it happens, but later, when we look back, we respect those difficult moments that improved us.

You're welcome.

a reply to: muzzleflash

You've done nothing to substantiate your absurd claim that "Republicans always foster scientific research."

I've dropped low-hanging fruit in your lap that disproves your ridiculous claim, however.

Also, as stated several times, you're doing a whole lot of crying about my personal opinion, that for some reason seems to have upset you.

originally posted by: muzzleflash

originally posted by: Gryphon66


So, feel free to provide any backup for your opinions ... but for the rest, you've bored me to ignoring your posts.

You won't ignore my posts I'm afraid.

Like everyone else I've gotten into it with over the years, you'll grudgingly respect me and then eventually the grudge will wear off.

That's because I'm doing you a favor, I'm forcing you to up your game.
We always tend to hate it when it happens, but later, when we look back, we respect those difficult moments that improved us.

You're welcome.

I won't ignore your posts? LOL.

We have a saying in Georgia: hide and watch.

originally posted by: DrStevenBrule

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: DrStevenBrule
a reply to: Blue_Jay33

The Ctrl-Left definitely drove me toward the right.

I could not believe the craziness and intellectual dishonesty I saw coming from leftists and their leaders.

I did not want to be associated with these people or their ideals and I haven't voted Democrat in almost 10 years.

Yeah it's getting crazy. Just as crazy on the right/conservative side too. I'm a registered independent. I think I'm only voting independent/third party from here on out, the rest of my life. There's a tide coming and sooner or later it will reach a tipping point.

I've been registered as Independent since my 18th birthday.

There are crazies on both sides but one is far, far worse in my opinion.

Sad we have to vote for the lesser evil most of the time.

Democracy ehh?

What side has more crazies? Why would things crazies do drive you to the right? This is something I don't get.

For me it just assures me both sides don't represent the American people. The Republicans for instance spent 7 years crying about Obamacare but forgot to do their job and create a new one. They are about to fail on the wall, budget, and tax cuts because they are asking for things not even their own party agree . You have republicans already writing bills to stop the funding of the wall etc.

I lean conservative but, am in the center. The social issues and moral legislation the Republicans involve themselves in is not something I will suddenly change because some college kids are getting themselves on the news.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: muzzleflash

I want to know. If you can conclusively show me that Republicans are absolutely anti-science, I'll join your side in the debate. Maybe I am wrong and they pulled the wool over my eyes? Show me. Explain it.

The party of anti science are the social engineers ignoring evolution, and running around telling boys and girls they have a 'choice' to be one or the other or neither.

LOL.

Touché

I admit I did not see that one coming.
Hahahha

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: muzzleflash

I want to know. If you can conclusively show me that Republicans are absolutely anti-science, I'll join your side in the debate. Maybe I am wrong and they pulled the wool over my eyes? Show me. Explain it.

The party of anti science are the social engineers ignoring evolution, and running around telling boys and girls they have a 'choice' to be one or the other or neither.

LOL.

That statement is pretty ignorant.

Evolution has zero to do with what dr's tell people.

The part that comes it play with evolution is that they are finding hormones in water supplies are also creating Transgender animals. This is what evolution would show.

a reply to: luthier

This is the thing that kills me.

These people out rioting in the streets claiming they are about to get swept up and locked into camps or something clearly have not been paying attention.

It's been about a year now, and the Republicans have been their best friends! They haven't lost their health care and no one's taken away anything. They're even still getting taxed to the gills!

That's why I see crazies there.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Gryphon66

You keep repeating information about the Electoral College ... that has noting to do with the popular vote or popular opinion.

All this is a hard thing to call one way or the other. Most states were very close so we could say the vast majority of the country was very close to 50/50 popular vote. We then have one state CA that gave Hillary 4.3 million more votes than Trump, so I'm not sure how one could suggest popular opinion other than just looking at raw numbers since they work with your narrative. In the end Trump won and he won on the platform he campaigned with, so I'm not sure how you think your popular opinion fits into all this or what you think Trump should change his platform to based on this.

No, you can't say that individual state totals reflects the popular opinion of the American people as a whole.

If you wanted to make an argument that there are regional differences in America, you don't even have to prove that to me, that seems more than obvious.

However, to make claims about what "most Americans" believe or want ... and then ignore every measure of "most Americans" is ridiculous.

These arguments always ignore our situation of dual sovereignty in this country. We are citizens of the United States, as well as of our respective States. Many traditionally held it more important to be American.

Popular opinion is a measure of what people think. Given that so many don't seem to believe in polls or other scientific measures, so I'm not sure how you will measure that quantity.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: muzzleflash

You've done nothing to substantiate your absurd claim that "Republicans always foster scientific research."

I've dropped low-hanging fruit in your lap that disproves your ridiculous claim, however.

Also, as stated several times, you're doing a whole lot of crying about my personal opinion, that for some reason seems to have upset you.

I didn't say they always foster science.

I said both parties support science most of the time, I even said 90% or 95%, a number like that. I pointed out there are a few exceptions but it's nuanced over various reasons.

"Global Warming Science" is a great example that I just thought of.
Republicans don't argue that Meteorology or Geology are failed sciences, or fake science in themselves.

Instead they argue that political and economic interests fabricated evidence and that actual science proves they fabricated it. They explain that these interests fabricated this data to create a false narrative in order to achieve a political agenda.

I have never heard anyone say that the actual scientific methodology or the instruments they use is in itself, a hoax. What they always seem to claim is that the specific data sets used to claim X Y or Z were hoaxed and that the actual scientists were bribed, threatened, or whatever, in order to get them on board with the hoax.

Then they present "all of these non-bias scientists" with the same types of degrees from the same universities, which support their claim that the data was falsified and that the "real data" shows "global warming is a hoax".

So in short, neither side seems to be arguing about the science of meteorology, but instead they seem to be arguing on if certain data sets are selectively falsified to show a certain result that isn't accurate according to the "science" that all sides seem to agree is valid.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: luthier

This is the thing that kills me.

These people out rioting in the streets claiming they are about to get swept up and locked into camps or something clearly have not been paying attention.

It's been about a year now, and the Republicans have been their best friends! They haven't lost their health care and no one's taken away anything. They're even still getting taxed to the gills!

That's why I see crazies there.

They are crazies there. Same one who spit on soldiers in Vietnam, trashed Seattle in the 90'same etc..
Dumb college kids popping off. Nothing new. Both parties still suck. I didn't budge on that one bit.

Just like white supremacists marching didn't make me a liberal.

Or the birthers, and the crazies who marched during Obama. Not a single time crazy people marched do I ever think o man I better join the other nuts

originally posted by: neo96

The party of anti science are the social engineers ignoring evolution, and running around telling boys and girls they have a 'choice' to be one or the other or neither.

Can you prove this claim?

You know, given the great and well-known respect for science and reasoning and all evidenced in your posts?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: muzzleflash

You've done nothing to substantiate your absurd claim that "Republicans always foster scientific research."

I've dropped low-hanging fruit in your lap that disproves your ridiculous claim, however.

Also, as stated several times, you're doing a whole lot of crying about my personal opinion, that for some reason seems to have upset you.

Here was my actual quote that began our debate:

Do all the same military corporations still get huge contracts to build the same weapons? Yes, almost always give or take a tiny slice of minor exceptions.

Do all of these major universities still get funding to conduct all of their research programs? Yes, 95% of the time the same stuff gets through and keeps going on despite whomever got elected.

So for you to say the right-wing is anti-science, is you judging a book by it's cover. It's a shallow analysis of a deeper reality. They sure are pro-science when it comes to just about everything, save a few hot topics like evolution (which provides little to no actual scientific value in a technological way) or cosmology (which again provides little to no value in terms of technological development or advancement).

- Muzzleflash

I never claimed "Republicans always foster scientific research."

That is called a "Strawman argument".
You are saying I said something I never said, because what I actually said was totally valid.
But since you cannot admit it's validity, you create a false argument and proceed to disprove it, meanwhile, ignoring my actual argument against your original claim.

The world isn't all extremes.
Calling Republicans "anti-science" or even "pro-science" doesn't explain anything solid to us.
It's entirely misleading to believe such a thing.

Like I stated, they are largely in favor of science and funding it. There are exceptions and they do tend to favor specific projects more than others. The Democrats are the same, they have favorites too.

I pointed out a few of the major points of contention between R and D (pun intended), being evolution, creation, and even global warming. There are good reasons why those particular topics are being debated because they aren't settled sufficiently to end the debates.

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Hey, I've got a general knowledge question for the membership ...

How many who classify themselves as "right-wing" members of Congress (House and Senate) or in the Administration are Republicans?

or, conversely

How many Republicans in Congress or in the Administration wouldn't classify themselves as "right-wing"?

a reply to: Gryphon66

The Term "Right Wing" is a subjective one. Your Idea of it and Mine would probably be quite different. I don't think you get anywhere doing things like that, IMO.