9/11 myths debunked . . .

good job billybob i could not put it better

[edit on 18-11-2005 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by pepsi78

The whole country was aware. For example, at 9:06 AM the NY Police broadcast:

" 'This was a terrorist attack. Notify the Pentagon.'"
--'Daily News' (New York) 12 September 2001 (2)

Notify them it was attack? Sure. Pick up the bat phone and call the Joint chiefs.
Seriously, even if they notified them of the attack in NYC, that didn’t automatically mean that they knew there was also a pending attack on the pentagon.

Originally posted by pepsi78
Statement :Lt. Col. Vic Warzinski

Air Force Lt. Col. Vic Warzinski, another Pentagon spokesman, [said]: 'The Pentagon was simply not aware that this aircraft was coming our way, and I doubt prior to Tuesday's event, anyone would have expected anything like that here.'"

Betwen the second crash and the pentagon crash there was "a hour"

And your point is?

So what if it was an hour. There was a lot of confusion, and the FAA didn’t notify the pentagon of the other missing plane (there were a lot of planes out there that had to be accounted for)

Only in conspiracy theorists little fantasy worlds, and in Tom Clancy novels do things work perfectly for the military. An hour is not a lot of time when you have spotty information, rumors and confusion to deal with.

Originally posted by pepsi78

On 11 September Andrews had two squadrons of fighter jets with the job of protecting the skies over Washington D.C. They failed to do their job. Despite over one hour's advance warning of a terrorist attack in progress, not a single Andrews fighter took off (or scrambled) to protect the city.

Again, with the information that they had, where would the go? To New York?, Boston? Baltimore?

Originally posted by pepsi78

"The District of Columbia National Guard maintained fighter planes at Andrews Air Force Base, only about 15 miles [sic!] from the Pentagon, but those planes were not on alert and not deployed."
--'USA TODAY' September 17, 2001 (5)

Standard procedure dictates that jets be notified after six minutes of lost voice contact.

In order to know that you have lost voice contact, you have to contact the plane first, right?

Have you any idea just how busy the airways oer the east coast of the continental U.S. are at that time in the day? Yes there was confusion, and yes, the response to the crisis could have been a little better, timewise, but when you consider that this was a wholly new situation, you realize that there were no standard responses. In any case, I don’t see any “smoking gun” here, or even a case of gross incompetence. It looks like a situation involving pretty typical human response to crisis. As you get older and wiser in the ways of your fellow man, you will understand this better.

Originally posted by pepsi78

quote by you

If you want to fly for a major airline, then you need a certain level of knowledge about regulations etc.
If you don't care about landing a plane and just want to crash it, then who cares about that?

Dont you understand the flight instructors said they can not fly at all period.
Are you a instructor?

No, are you? There are a number of qualified pilots on this board and others who are quite familiar with the airplanes in question. Have you found any that agree with your assessments?

Originally posted by pepsi78

Dude, the Bin Laden family is friends with the head of every major country. They run the biggest construction company in that part of the world.

Maybe but brother of binladen is involved in to the carleal gorup
The bigest defence and weapons company producer of usa
He is still there involved so is bush and cheyne.

Do you have any idea just how many members of that family there are? Are you claiming that they are all involved with Osama?

Originally posted by pepsi78

Got proof of that? have you talked to them? Hey Look,

This is what you call denny ignorance?
Is this it?
It was on cnn howard everyone knows it.
The fbi admited to it.

What, they admitted that there are people with the same names? What, you mean that there are TWO Muslims named Mohammad?

Originally posted by pepsi78

What the F are you babbling about?

just open up the patriot act there is the word nwo.

here is a copy of the patriot act Just open it up and show me where the word “nwo” is.

Originally posted by pepsi78

Has anyone ever produced a shred of proof that he didn't just misspeak? How about a hotel registration, a rental car reservation, anything to back this up? No?

I will give you the video with the link just hold on a second


-----------------------------
update

fema spokeman ariveing before
www.prisonplanet.com...

Once again I ask you THE SAME QUESTIONS!!!
Has anyone ever produced a shred of proof that he didn't just misspeak? How about a hotel registration, a rental car reservation, anything to back this up? No?

Originally posted by pepsi78

3 President bush giving presidetial directive order stoping fbi agents from investigateing before 911You got some specific proof of that?

I will get your proof it's all over the internet many sites have it .
It is the hole article i'll get it and show it to you

presidential directives W199i

www.jesus-is-savior.com...

199I WF213589, huh? Everyone talks about that, but no one has produced a copy of it.

Kind of reminds me of the Bush National Guard memo that fooled CBS, or the Nigerian Yellowcake forgeries that fooled the Whitehouse.

Standard Operating Procedures for Air Emergencies

properly to radio contact are described by the FAA manual as follows: “… [The interceptor military craft communicates by] Rocking wings from a position slightly above and ahead of, and normally to the left of, the intercepted aircraft…” This action conveys the message: “You have been intercepted.” The commercial jet is then supposed to respond by rocking its wings to indicate compliance, upon which the interceptor performs a “slow level turn, normally to the left, on to the desired heading [direction].” The commercial plane then responds by following the escort.[6]

At the pentagon
it just hapens they where waching tv

'American Forces Press Service' reported that ordinary people working at the Pentagon worried they could be next

'We were watching the World Trade Center on the television,' said a Navy officer. 'When the second plane deliberately dove into the tower, someone said, 'The World Trade Center is one of the most recognizable symbols of America. We're sitting in a close second.'" --'DEFENSELINK News', Sept. 13, 2001 (3)

Notify them it was attack? Sure. Pick up the bat phone and call the Joint chiefs.
Seriously, even if they notified them of the attack in NYC, that didn’t automatically mean that they knew there was also a pending attack on the pentagon.

No howard there are procedures if this hapens, i will get them gladly for you.
There does not have to be a bat fone just a fax- line, network, fone lines.
Why would you reply with such a silly answer howard.
You are now a conspiracy theorist You are questioning the nypd
and the metropolitan service of NY so you are sayng they did not inform
them and that it is a big lie? Howard the conpiracy theorist

So what if it was an hour. There was a lot of confusion, and the FAA didn’t notify the pentagon of the other missing plane (there were a lot of planes out there that had to be accounted for)

This has nothing to do with the faa, it has to do with my first quotes
NYPD if you recal it

Only in conspiracy theorists little fantasy worlds, and in Tom Clancy novels do things work perfectly for the military. An hour is not a lot of time when you have spotty information, rumors and confusion to deal with.

Yes i can say the same if i want, do you get paid good for what you are doing here?

In order to know that you have lost voice contact, you have to contact the plane first, right?

No rong, if the plane does not respond(that's how you know you lost voice contact right )
You can figure it out right if it go's off radar you contact it.
It's 6 minutes and not more.

Have you any idea just how busy the airways oer the east coast of the continental U.S. are at that time in the day? Yes there was confusion, and yes, the response to the crisis could have been a little better, timewise, but when you consider that this was a wholly new situation, you realize that there were no standard responses. In any case, I don’t see any “smoking gun” here, or even a case of gross incompetence. It looks like a situation involving pretty typical human response to crisis. As you get older and wiser in the ways of your fellow man, you will understand this better.

That does not have anything to do with it and it does not stop them from scrambeling jets from adrews above the capitol

If you want to fly for a major airline, then you need a certain level of knowledge about regulations etc.
If you don't care about landing a plane and just want to crash it, then who cares about that?

So the flight instructors are just idiots right , people with great expiriance
that train so many people are just a bunch of idiotic figures ?and does not
know nothing about the fact.
Is that what you are sayng?

Dude, the Bin Laden family is friends with the head of every major country. They run the biggest construction company in that part of the world.

Yes i agree that's why i think bush is protecting him cause they are friends you are right, it would make sence since they are friends?

Once again I ask you THE SAME QUESTIONS!!!
Has anyone ever produced a shred of proof that he didn't just misspeak? How about a hotel registration, a rental car reservation, anything to back this up? No?

Yes many of us saw the video near the twin towers after they colapsed it was on cbs.
How can you say you arive a day before?
And no he didint say i was here he said we came here so he wasent on holyday

3 President bush giving presidetial directive order stoping fbi agents from investigateing before 911You got some specific proof of that?

This was in the news paper so we dont really care if you belive it or not we know it already it's not like a big secret, every one knows it.

What, they admitted that there are people with the same names? What, you mean that there are TWO Muslims named Mohammad?

And about the terorists that are alive there is not one of them but half of them
See they put up pictures of them and the people that found them selfs by pictures where upset with the fact that they put pictures of them sayng they are terorists.
There was pictures and names .
Howard who do you work for dude?
You are becoming a conpiracy your self
Maybe we should make a thread about you near the secret fraternity board.
Howard the agent man.




[edit on 18-11-2005 by pepsi78]

[edit on 18-11-2005 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by Off_The_Street
jsd, you have egregiously misquoted me.

You quote me as saying:

The sad thing is that this will only convince the real nut-bars that Popular Mechanics is part of the plot, too.

That is correct; I said that, and I stand by it.

However, you continue to quote me as saying:

Is it not a little odd that the so called "researcher" who wrote the article for PM lied to an interviewer about being related to the head of Homeland Security? This "researcher", being in his early twenties, was undone when his mother in fact told the interviewer they are cousins.

If you want credible info visit: www.physics911.com

The "debunking" attempt was a joke. An amature [sic] attempt at best. Just one example; his argument that the hole in the Pentagon is what one would expect from the dimensions of the 757 is inane. Are we to believe the wings and engines under them somehow 'followed' the fuselage through that hole of 16'x20' ? The engines are 50' apart from each other for one thing..............

One shouldn't be so quick to discount glaring discrepancies [sic].

I did not say that; indeed, that is the exact opposite of my view.

You quote me as saying that the view that the wings followed the fuselage into the hole is “inane”. I, for one, happen to believe that there is an excellent chance that such a phenomenon could occur

Furthermore, you have me making errors in both spelling and grammar. As someone who believes in both detailed research and careful presentation of my views, including using a spell-checker, attributing such execrable grammar and spelling to me is unconscionable.

I am assuming that you did not do this on purpose; probably, you merely forgot to use the slash-quote code at the end of the first sentence, which is the only statement I made here.

I would appreciate your editing your post to ensure that I am not quoted as saying something which I personally think is incorrect.

Talk about a nut-bar, this one is all nut without the bar. OTS the over drama in your posts is getting kind of old, but to each his own.

You claim to be a Boeing Engineer, I dont recall you area of expertise, for all I know you work on designing the instructions to the toilets. You said you can see how the flight 77's wings could get sucked into the fuselage?!? You understand how an aircrafts wings are constucted? IMHO at the very minumum from the engines outward would have to of come apart and left peices of slats wingtips, pieces of outer spar, wing ribs, and all kinds of identifible wing pieces/parts.

Vis Mega, your post was spot on, you communicated exactly what I had been feeling myself.

[edit on 18-11-2005 by LoneGunMan]

Don't give it the time of day anymore.

Don't feed publications like Popular Mechanics anymore.

www.wingtv.net...

Just want you to think about something for A SECOND.

If you spend time on the sillyness. You miss the stuff that is coming out NOW about 9-11. As time passes.. you are missing out on the clues that are spilling out on to the public domain while you debate the existence of nonexistant and unimportant things.

Don't you find it strange that after 9-11 everyone who had lost a loved one was paid off by the fed?

Did that happen at Okalahoma? Did it happen in the marine barraks in Beruit.

Did you notice how much money the people who lost people in Katrina got?

Like $5000 or something like that.. less then 10 all around each. Something like that.. and MANY of those deaths could have been prevented.

But for 9-11 you get close to a mil for losing someone??

Why?

Because 9-11 was different all around. Period. End of story. What happened on that day... hell we'll never really know. Not until we figure out the things that WE CAN DETERMINE.. they can't control what happens NOW... the events that ripple outwards from the crime. That is what people who want to know the truth have to focus on.


Hell they COULD have used holographically cloked missles. You'll never know...


.. you know who does know something?

The people who lost people ON THE PLANES. Not in the tower...

rense.com...

(yeah I know its rense.. as much as he is knocked about his content.. at least he actually cares about these issues.. his site was up long before 9-11 happened.. far as I'm concerned.. his credibility is solid)

-VMX

" OTS the over drama in your posts is getting kind of old, but to each his own."

I have no problem sharing a forum with fools (obviously), but I resent a person attempting to make me look like a fool by mis-quoting me and implying that I actually believe the claptrap about this tragedy being some Huge Secret Plot by the CIA, Mossad, Little Purple Men from Arcturus, or whomever you people choose for the villain-of-the-day.

Some of us believe in integrity, you know!

And my field is logistics engineering; my specialty includes statistical analyses of aircraft systems' international requirements (spares, training, upgrades, configuration management) over the aircraft's life cycle, and contractual issues relating to those requirements.

I can see by your profile that you do not choose to share your true name, e-mail, location, work, telephone number, educational background, or skill -- as a matter of fact, you have no profile. I will assume, therefore, that you probably have no technical background with which to even discuss these incidents.

[edit on 18-11-2005 by Off_The_Street]

LOL some people think really highly of themselves don't they?

I don't see a need for a third party...

The fool is one who refuses to even imagine that anything done by the government and it's agencies is not as they say. And the bigger fool is one who spends his own time trying to convince other people to ignore any evidence that contradicts the party line. If I was a dictator I would be trying to hire you!


[edit on 18/11/2005 by ANOK]

Originally posted by Vis Mega
...

Remember, its not about what DID happen on 9-11, its also about what DID NOT happen on 9-11.. like for example.. why did the terrorists hijack the planes so early in the morning, and keep the death toll so low, also hitting the building really high up, instead of down at street level where the devistation and death would have been much much much higher and prevented many more people from escaping the building. Hell, if the even had a clue that the building MIGHT collapse from the attack, then they would want to hit it lower in the buildings support to make it even more unstable.. it just makes sense from a murderous lowlifes perspective.

...

all adding to the picture, but anectotal evidence, nevertheless. sure, the first hit was as high up as possible, the second one lower, but on a partially evacuated building...

so, if anyone wants to guess how many storeys per minute can be evacuated on average, i'm all ears. of course, i would expect the perps to have conducted an evacuation drill a few months earlier (clue us in if you know something) to see where to hit and when. of course this line of thought gives creedence to the demolition theorists, too.


the main problem is that any technical investigation is subjected to much contention and misinformation, which is why I'd personally focus on destroyed or confiscated evidence, like the hotel rooftop video tapes alledgedly showing the aircraft used in the pentagon attack, which are all but gone now.

such activities are a clear admission of guilt, imho of course.

Originally posted by pepsi78

If you want to fly for a major airline, then you need a certain level of knowledge about regulations etc.
If you don't care about landing a plane and just want to crash it, then who cares about that?

So the flight instructors are just idiots right , people with great expiriance
that train so many people are just a bunch of idiotic figures ?and does not
know nothing about the fact.
Is that what you are sayng?

Flying a plane is a lot more than just yanking the yoke around, you have to study meteorology, flight theory, air law, etc.
I've only done a measly 15 hours of flying (as I havn't been able to afford it for a while) but I can take-off, fly around and land. I can also recover an aircraft from stalls and spins. My next lesson would have been flying solo but you have to pass the exams first, unfortunately due to the cash flow problem and also the fact I find it hard to just study from a book and I'm lazy I havn't gone any further.
If you asked them if I was a good pilot they would probably say 'no' because I havn't got any real knowledge of the law and regulations and I can't navigate (using the traditional charts and equipment), but I can operate the aircraft pretty well. And that's after only 15 hours of lessons.
The point is that it is hard to judge, if when they said they were bad at flying, they meant they were bad at the aspects they needed to carry out their mission.

You don't need to know or understand 90% of what you would to be an airline pilot to accomplish what those people did.
Considering the majority of the journey will have been controlled through the flight computer which anyone can program after a bit of research all they had to do was pilot the craft into the buildings at the end. It's not hard - get a copy of Flight Simulator to give you an idea if you want.

[edit on 19-11-2005 by AgentSmith]

Originally posted by ANOK
The fool is one who refuses to even imagine that anything done by the government and it's agencies is not as they say. And the bigger fool is one who spends his own time trying to convince other people to ignore any evidence that contradicts the party line. If I was a dictator I would be trying to hire you!

It's foolish to think that everything is a conspiracy theory though. There are plenty out there but we are striving for accurate information - not proving a point at all costs. If aspects of the conspiracy theory are wrong then they need to be pointed out.
You guys that get upset when it's questioned are shooting yourselves in the foot, if you keep promoting ideas that are wrong then when they are exposed as being wrong you help add to the negative label of 'conspiracy theorist' and all your ideas that are right will have no ears to fall onto.
It's a bit like the 'Boy that cried Wolf' - even if you don't realise what you are saying is wrong.

If anyone believes that the conspiracies must be exposed at all costs, even if it means telling some porkies or letting some false information slip by because 'it's all for a good cause' then it makes you no better than the 'system' you claim to be fighting.

[edit on 19-11-2005 by AgentSmith]

Flyng a small plane is a thing and flying a large comercial boeing is another thing.
It does not matter any way the statements remain the same has they where made by the flight instructors"they could not fly at all"
and "we cant belive on this day that they where able to fly"
Thei didint even know how to drive a car and you want them to fly
It was hard becasue they didint understand anything they didint even know what the instructors told them.
And how about they flunked but still continiue to pay for it?how is that, this shows that they didint even care if they can fly or not as long has they get payed.
It just hapens the hotel they staid at was near the NSA right near it a step away.


[edit on 19-11-2005 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by AgentSmith


It's foolish to think that everything is a conspiracy theory though.

Just because you question things doesn't mean you think everything is a conpiracy.
Everything should be questioned IF there are questions unanswered.
Don't we have a right to do that?
Isn't that what we call freedom? Liberty?

The modern way to silence people who speak out is not to drag them off to the gulag. It's done by calling them "fools", "nut bars" (I love that one TY OTS) or other terms that cause ppl on the fence to be too scared to become a "fool or a "nut bar". So they stay silent from fear, and the powers that be continue to steal from you and me.

And the sad thing is a lot of ppl fall for this and infact help carry it out themselves. So telling me that I shouldn't question everything, cause not everyhting is a conspiracy then basicaly you're doing their work for them.

And anyway how the hell would you know if it IS a conspiracy or not if you don't talk about it on ATS??

Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not trying to be rude to you, just rambling on where I'm coming from I guess.

[edit on 19/11/2005 by ANOK]

No anok we should be dumb not study anything be lame wach tv all day
and pick our nose while we eat from mecdonalds.
Or we can be creative stay in shape and question things just because our
curiosity asks for it.

Originally posted by pepsi78
Flyng a small plane is a thing and flying a large comercial boeing is another thing.
It does not matter any way the statements remain the same has they where made by the flight instructors"they could not fly at all"
and "we cant belive on this day that they where able to fly"
[edit on 19-11-2005 by pepsi78]

Your right, flying an airliner is actually supposed to be easier in a lot of ways some people have said - I completely agree with you pepsi on that. You might also find the following article interesting:

After about a week of training, I was familiar with the layout of the flight deck and with the operation of the flight controls, autopilot, and navigation systems. As a result, flying the simulator was much less difficult than I had imagined at the beginning of the course. The most difficult part of the simulator training was takeoffs and landings. On the other hand, flying the aircraft in other phases of flight was relatively easy, even compared to flying a Cessna 172. Changing the aircraft's course, speed, or altitude was not very difficult when using either the autopilot system or when flying the aircraft manually. The flight control system made the aircraft rather responsive and made it easy to perform normal flying manuvers.

Given my experiences in the simulator, I feel that if I were to be put into a 757's cockpit in the middle of a flight on a relatively clear and sunny day, I would be able to change direction and altitude without any trouble. Given a basic knowledge of a region's geography and of available navigational aids, I would also be able to navigate well enough that I could find a major city and fly the aircraft to any major landmark in that city. Because the basic cockpit layout and many of the procedures used in the 757 are almost identical to those of the 767, I feel that the same would be true for a 767.

In short, I believe that any person who has earned a private pilot's license and who has access to the same kind of ground school and simulator training that I received could fly a 757 or 767 well enough to hit a large building. Given the wide availability of this kind of training, it would appear that the kind of terrorist actions that took place in New York and Washington could easily be repeated in the future.

www.airsafe.com...

Okay answer
1 why did the fligh instructors quoted"we cant belive on this day that they managed to fly" why would they say that?
2 The hotel where they stayed was just a step away from NSA.
3 Why continiue to pay if you flunk and suck at it?
4 Why continue to pay for it if you plan on dieing in a crash?

I would apreciate if you stiked to the questions.

Oh it is right to question things, but it is important not to lose perspective and allow ourselves to get carried away. It is also easy, in this game, to end up with some pretty warped ideas and to lose sight of the facts.

One thing that makes it hard, that is a bit hypocritical of some people, is that they will pick and choose the facts they want and ignore others. A lot of people are convinced that all the 'official' information is created and edited to suit their own ends but realistically it is really the only source of information available.
Everyone has to get it from somewhere and unless you believe the fantasies that some people create and write up onto websites you have to have a certain amount of faith in it.
I'm digressing anyway but the point is to keep a balance. I, like everyone else, am often guilty of leaning so far in one direction that I lose sight of the other side.

[edit on 19-11-2005 by AgentSmith]

Originally posted by AgentSmith
One thing that makes it hard, that is a bit hypocritical of some people, is that they will pick and choose the facts they want and ignore others.

Don't the de-bunkers do that exact same thing?
I can name names man!
People on here that do nothing but ignore what they can't explain, and argue to death the irellivant points of the discusion often de-railing the thread. (probably their intention to begin with)

Us fools and nut bars are just trying to get the whole story, you know fill in all those holes that the government won't answer.
Does the official story really all make sense to you?
Cause to a fast growing number of ppl it doesn't.

[edit on 19/11/2005 by ANOK]

I do know what you mean because I tend to do it too, sometimes more so than I realise. I think it's human nature but your right in that we must not let us detract from seeking the truth.
There are things to question but it's important to not allow some wild theories to distract us.
I do believe a lot of information, put out with the guise of enlightening people to an alternative theory, is a real dis-information tactic perpetrated by people unknown for unknown but speculated upon reasons.
And sometimes the answer is not always the obvious one, though nor is it always the complex one either.
But sometimes we have to look at the logic behind things and admit that some theories become far too elaborate and complicated to be likely when there is an equally scary and more likely answer.

I dont know we should not even debunk the stuff until we cleard up
the first problems before 911.
Over welming evidence.
Things like w119i. things that went before and has a connection to 911 and to why 991 hapend.
And why dont any one open up a thread about the comision report.



[edit on 19-11-2005 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by HowardRoark

Have you any idea just how busy the airways oer the east coast of the continental U.S. are at that time in the day? Yes there was confusion, and yes, the response to the crisis could have been a little better, timewise, but when you consider that this was a wholly new situation, you realize that there were no standard responses. In any case, I don’t see any “smoking gun” here, or even a case of gross incompetence. It looks like a situation involving pretty typical human response to crisis. As you get older and wiser in the ways of your fellow man, you will understand this better.

Wasn't it you Roark that said they have drills ALL the time. So if they were having a simulated 9/11 type drill on 9/11 and you say they have them all the time......how do you explain your comment that it was a "wholly new situation" and there were "no standard responses". I thought that having drills is the point in establishing standard responses? Explain please...

[edit on 19-11-2005 by MacMerdin]