Michelle Carter: Beyond the Law

Where does personal responsibility begin and free speech end? Are we to now hold third parties responsible for an individual's actions? If I tell someone in anger to go 'screw themselves' am I responsible for their actions?

If the court has their way against Michelle carter, be careful the next time you tell someone to go screw a sheep.

Because that bestiality is on you.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
Where does personal responsibility begin and free speech end? Are we to now hold third parties responsible for an individual's actions? If I tell someone in anger to go 'screw themselves' am I responsible for their actions?

If the court has their way against Michelle carter, be careful the next time you tell someone to go screw a sheep.

Because that bestiality is on you.

Ew?.

originally posted by: mericks74

originally posted by: EternalSolace
Where does personal responsibility begin and free speech end? Are we to now hold third parties responsible for an individual's actions? If I tell someone in anger to go 'screw themselves' am I responsible for their actions?

If the court has their way against Michelle carter, be careful the next time you tell someone to go screw a sheep.

Because that bestiality is on you.

Ew?.

I would tell you to 'bite me' but it would be my fault if you did.

hey??

Okay......

None of us know the full story, only what the media is flogging.

15 months. In the UK she would serve 5 months of that 15 month sentence.

I'm reminded of a song, the lyrics go something like this "Hey, McCloud, get of of my ewe!" or something like that.

a reply to: EternalSolace

Free speech is not absolute. You can't verbally threaten someone, you can't say things that induce mass panic, you can't say things in an effort to impersonate police officers, etc., etc. And, of course, you can tell someone to take a curve in the road at 100mph when you know it's a 25mph curve--if that person dies doing so, you can be legally held responsible for your roll.

I acknowledge that this is a grey area for me, because I'm a huge advocate of personal responsibility, but at the same time, I fully comprehend that not everyone in the world has the intestinal fortitude or even the self esteem to always make decisions that are in their best interest when external factors are present--peer pressure can and does cause death and serious injury to many people.

What Ms. Carter did was knowingly (which is a key element) take advantage of an emotionally disturbed and suicidal person in order to push them as far over the edge as possible, knowing the likely outcome would be his death. This is a special type of instance, and you telling an average person that you don't know to go 'screw themselves' is not the same as repeatedly coaxing an already suicidal person to go through with the act.

Your slippery-slope argument doesn't work in this case.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

let's not forget she never alerted anyone about her "boyfriends" mental state as to get him help,
let's not forget, the "boyfriend" got out of the car and was going to change his mind I until she continued to coerce him to get back in the car.

OP... I hope you have kids and they get bullied verbally and they too commit suicide, then I'd like to see what your opinion is about that....

originally posted by: EternalSolace
Where does personal responsibility begin and free speech end?

For Michelle Carter, right there in the courtroom...

Are we to now hold third parties responsible for an individual's actions?

Michelle Carter is being held responsible for her own actions. She made a conscious and deliberate decision to actively involve herself in his efforts to kill himself and to use her position of trust to mock, berate and bully an emotionally and mentally disturbed individual into killing himself. This wasn't an isolated offhand comment said in jest or disgust with no real intention or expectation of the person actually doing so. She knew.

And now she must take that personal responsibility for her willful actions.

If I tell someone in anger to go 'screw themselves' am I responsible for their actions?

If the court has their way against Michelle carter, be careful the next time you tell someone to go screw a sheep.

Because that bestiality is on you.

Since I'm not going to tell anyone to do anything -- especially that!!! -- I don't have to worry about it... (see how that works? I can take personal responsibility for my actions and just not do it... just as you can... and just as Michelle Carter could have...)

But more to the point, it's not even close to the same thing. And your analogy seems to belie your premise... apparently personal responsibility means nothing to you. If you and a bunch of your friends are standing around a barnyard and you double-dog dare your buddy to screw that sheep, and he does, and you egg him on in the process, then YOU are damn well personally responsible for your part in the crime. Such as aiding and abetting a criminal or accessory before and during the crime (and perhaps after) or conspiracy to commit a crime.... and so on and so forth.

More than one person can be involved in a crime and therefore more than one person can be responsible for their personal contributions to the same crime.

a reply to: EternalSolace

He got out of the car and she told him to get back in. She told a friend that she knew that he would listen to her. Her acts were morally reprehensible.

PS. she'll be parole eligible in 15 months, she received a 30 month sentence.

a reply to: EternalSolace

Where does personal responsibility begin and free speech end?

This is not an easy question and to my mind in this day of information one of the most important we can ask.
Though from your examples you seem to take this issue lightly or indeed are holding to some fictional and absolutist ideal, you have received a number of well thought out replies to this issue.
I hope you pay attention.

originally posted by: odzeandennz
a reply to: SlapMonkey

OP... I hope you have kids and they get bullied verbally and they too commit suicide, then I'd like to see what your opinion is about that....

Hoping kids get bullied leading to suicide?

Wow... and I'm the bad guy? What kind of sick freak are you?

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Well thought out replies? No.

Pushing responsibility of ones actions off on another is all it is. Is she trash? Yes. Guilty of involuntary manslaughter? No.

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: EternalSolace
Where does personal responsibility begin and free speech end?

For Michelle Carter, right there in the courtroom...

Are we to now hold third parties responsible for an individual's actions?

Michelle Carter is being held responsible for her own actions. She made a conscious and deliberate decision to actively involve herself in his efforts...

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize she tied him to a seat, shut the garage door, and started the car. Actively involved? Nope.

a reply to: EternalSolace

you don't have to physically make contact to force someone to do something.
your parents did it to you as a child... they convinced you to do things without touching you. in fact every day people convince you to do things without touching you physically...
this isn't different.

and the fact that she texted friends after his death saying, she could have stopped him, speaks volumes. I don't understand what you are defending here.

you're just trying to string a technicality; I didn't kill him myself, therefore not culpable. obviously the law thought differently. I hope karma pays her a visit when and if she has kids.

originally posted by: odzeandennz
a reply to: EternalSolace

you're just trying to string a technicality; I didn't kill him myself, therefore not culpable. obviously the law thought differently. I hope karma pays her a visit when and if she has kids.

The law was wrong. Emotional response superceded the rationale.

And yet again... wishing kids the worst due to karma? What kind of sick freak?

The cause of this I believe is misunderstandings of male and female. All males need to guide themselves and take responsibility for their actions. If all males would cooperate with eachother (unrealistic, I know) would women still be fighting? I don't think so. That is why it's always some guys fault, some guy told this girl things which lead to her texting another guy to go kill himself. It might also be seen as something nonphysical, she might have wanted to say he needed to change his personality and become a stronger individual able to carry his own emotional weight but out of frustration and anger didn't say it as such. Call me traditional, other systems might work but it's the guy that needs to be the leader and do everything he can to make a female happy at least not make her insecure about life in general. Easy to say in hindsight but she should have told him to get help or report him herself to mental health care services.

Even if it was a male texting another male to go kill himself, that male did it by himself to himself, it's tragic and sad and could have been prevented but it happened but it's a bad precedent because it were only words and that should only make someone feel positive or negative and then it's up to that person to make up a reply or change ideas and beliefs. I believe she should have gotten a work task, like working in mental health care cleaning or handing out food so she would learn and understand why she was wrong, not sending her to prison where she might become an even nastier woman but just learning a different strategy she'll get away with.