Non secular Muslims, I got your back!

Western Civilisation/ Islam. The two cannot exist in the same space. One must succumb to the other. Proximity + Diversity = War.

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi
a reply to: Snarl

No - his half of the argument was based on an outright lie and is typical of modern day apologists.

And it works quite often...they're only defending theirselves!

No they're not...at all. Not even a little bit, they are trying to fulfil a prophecy, they haven't tried to hide it. ISIS have been quite open about their intentions.

Why should we lie about it when they aren't?

I don't want to start an argument with you ... and I do respect your civil reply.

Let's look at the two elements of his argument

Youre going to fix their God, religion, way of life?

One should accept that the above defines Islam. It is a secular form of governance heavily dependent upon independent application of historical Middle Eastern morals and ethics.

The dilemma here is simple: How do you stop a Believer from believing? The answer to that question is: By killing lots of people.

They hold that man is corrupt and gubments will ultimately become corrupt with greedy men at the top.

Who can argue their point? Because: history.

And as for 'their prophecy' ... let's be real. Even if they were able to establish their Caliphate, they'd still belong to the Third World. And that's because those "corrupt gubments" (theirs included), want it that way. I honestly believe, given the choice, most people would Rule in Hell rather than Serve in Heaven.

a reply to: Snarl

You made some good points, and I can't deny your logic.

I agree...I don't think Islam can be changed or reformed, to do so would mean its destruction.

I actually had this very discussion in a recent thread and said as much, myself. I don't think you can stop a believer...a true believer from believing. But I do believe you can prevent future generations from believing...nobody is born with those types of belief.

It's taught...well, more programed than taught. For me the problem is the esteem in which people hold these beleifs, there's this underlying narrative that people automatically buy into that we must respect others' beliefs but I don't think we must do that at all, quite the opposite. I think we should be teaching kids that these beliefs and ideologies are primitive and outdated, that we should be working towards phasing them out of existency and stop perpetuating them.

Maybe it's time to accept that this stuff is primitive and has no place in the modern world, including Christianity. Someone argued with me and said that it was natural for us to believe, I don't think that's true. We don't know how a human would develop naturally because we tend not to allow it. There's always some influence or external force trying to push something or other.

We'll only really know how a human naturally develops in terms of spiritual or religious beliefs if we allow them to develop without trying to brainwash them with an existing mainstream religion or ideology.

I apologise if I was rude or confrontational and appreciate your considered responses.

a reply to: LungFuMoShi

I've met God(s). Several times. Funny thing was ... those meetings had zero to do with religion, and I don't consider myself to be a religious man. The first encounter was by way of introduction ... just like it says in the Bible. Weird, huh?

It took me a while to get used to intrptr. I don't think he always fully expresses his points (maybe because he's made them before). Everything's good. No need for any apologies. And ... Welcome to the boards!!

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: intrptr

If Islam doesn't condone murder how come they seem to commit so much of it? Including each other?

Really? Who's dropping more tonnage of ordnance on others homelands?

You were there, you know whereof I speak.

It's where the bombs and bullets go that makes the difference.

Did you happen to see the video of the SF dude who saved that little girl?

I went looking for the full story and found a CNN story that went into depth about what had happened. It was heart wrenching and it reminded me of my first mission in Afghanistan.

I cried. A lot. Seeing innocent people brutally murdered like that. People just trying to get away from the fighting. We've never faced an enemy like this before. No one has.

Coupled with the fact that the likes of John McCain and Barack Obama funding and arming these monsters, and you can imagine my frustration with the whole situation.

You're right, I have seen it. There's a reason i hold the opinions I do. There's only SO MUCH you can blame on external factors like what I mentioned above. The rest is religion and culture. Both of which are incompatible with peaceful societies.

Islam has been spreading by the sword for 1400 years. It CANNOT reform as it doesn't have a structure that could be reformed even if we wanted it to.

For that reason, and a myriad of others, I want to see this "religion" disappear entirely. Among others, that is.

originally posted by: projectvxn

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: intrptr

If Islam doesn't condone murder how come they seem to commit so much of it? Including each other?

Really? Who's dropping more tonnage of ordnance on others homelands?

You were there, you know whereof I speak.

It's where the bombs and bullets go that makes the difference.

Did you happen to see the video of the SF dude who saved that little girl?

I went looking for the full story and found a CNN story that went into depth about what had happened. It was heart wrenching and it reminded me of my first mission in Afghanistan.

I cried. A lot. Seeing innocent people brutally murdered like that. People just trying to get away from the fighting. We've never faced an enemy like this before. No one has.

Coupled with the fact that the likes of John McCain and Barack Obama funding and arming these monsters, and you can imagine my frustration with the whole situation.

You're right, I have seen it. There's a reason i hold the opinions I do. There's only SO MUCH you can blame on external factors like what I mentioned above. The rest is religion and culture. Both of which are incompatible with peaceful societies.

Islam has been spreading by the sword for 1400 years. It CANNOT reform as it doesn't have a structure that could be reformed even if we wanted it to.

For that reason, and a myriad of others, I want to see this "religion" disappear entirely. Among others, that is.

You may want to see Islam disappeared entirely , as it is your " right " to do so .

It is a mistake to take this stand imho .

Would you get violent , forcefull , warlike to accomplish this desire ?

a reply to: hutch622
how many times have you read people here praying for the nuclear annihilation of the entire Middle East. What percentage of America and Europe do you think that constitutes??
a reply to: LungFuMoShi
you need a serious update. Dabiq was liberated in October 2016. Do you even keep up with what is actually going on, or do you just wait to read a headline that reinforces your hateful generalizations?? ISIS does not represent Islam. ISIS has murdered more Muslims than any other sect. And they have killed more Muslims than anyone else has. If you honestly believe they are Islamic in anything but name, than your brain has been successfully programmed.
a reply to: projectvxn
Christianity expanded the exact same way. And for the record, Islam made it into East Asia through mostly peaceful cultural exchange by merchants and traders and such. The Entire Western Hemisphere was nearly 100% genocided in the name of Christ, our Lord and Savior. Remind me again which nations were responsible for both World Wars?? If I recall, they were all nearly universally Christian.

I love you man, but humans of the Christian faith, whether in name only or true believers, have shed significantly more blood than any of the others in ancient, middle, and modern history. FFS, this entire mess in the Muslim land today is a direct result of invasions by nations with a significant Christian backing, again!

The only campaign that was justified, and should have stayed as the only front was Afghanistan. Everything after that was unchecked expansionism emboldened by a lack of anybody brave enough to confront it. Iraq, Somalia, Egypt, Libya, Until Syria of course. Lets also not forget NATO encroachment in Ukraine and Georgia is what has been underlying cause of the growing rift between Russia and EU/USA and resulted in them pulling our traditional Middle East allies from our sphere of influence.

a reply to: toysforadults

So, what does ‘I have your back’ mean?

You going to open your home to the refugees - your home?

You going to pay for their multiple wives and kids?

You going to pay for their health care?

That would be fabulous! Knock yourself out - because WE are already paying for them and I’m sick of it - so take it on you buddy, you asked for it.

I’d prefer our money goes to housing and feeding, healthcare for VETERANS and OUR HOMELESS FIRST.

After that? You give up your bacon, I’m not about to.

peace

The whole premise of Islam requires believing that Muhammed was chosen by allah to recieve infallible, indisputable divine instructions to record in the quran and hadiths.

Allah and Muhammed could not possibly have made any mistakes, so if you criticize or doubt one single thing in the quran you are no longer a muslim. You are an apostate who must be killed.

originally posted by: toysforadults
So I am officially taking the stance that if you are a non-secular Muslims, I as a freedom loving classical liberal white American patriot have your back.

Exactly "back" as in singular like one dude is speaking out against radical Islam.
I realize that's a large exaggeration on my part and I'm only kind of kidding.
But not in the sense that these "non-secular Muslims" are clearly not the majority as people would have us believe. If so then where is the 100 thousand person protest against the patriarchy in Saudi Arabia? Instead we get a woman's rights march organized by a woman with ties to the Muslim Brotherhood?...
That's largely anti-Trump and refuses to allow anyone pro-life to attend.
Talk about a perversion of liberties.

I do however have the same sentiment as the OP that I would gladly protect anyone willing to come out against the radical teachings of Islam. Just not expecting it to happen anytime soon that's all.

On a side note Dave Rubin is a bad ***.

I think you actually mean Secular Muslims.

Non-secular would be the pro Sharia lot.


Other than that nitpicking, good OP.
It's always appreciated when a nonMuslim decides to ignore the narrative and offer a hand.


Salam to you, mate.

originally posted by: intrptr
Really? Who's dropping more tonnage of ordnance on others homelands?

You're missing the point entirely.

The allied forces who are bombing *ISIS* and their supporters are NOT targeting civilians. Yes it does happen but not intentionally.

Some groups of mulisms, following the Quran and their God, however, *are* targeting civilians. Intentionally. Deliberately.

And you support that??

a reply to: Hazardous1408

I think you actually mean Secular Muslims.

actually it should be just Secular what ever citizen of the country. Secular means without any religious or spiritual basis.
if your a muslim you still believe in allah, muslim is not a race nor citizenship.

a reply to: worldstarcountry

Maybe you should read and understand what I actually said.

I didn't claim ISIS had Dabiq under occupation or control...I said they believe in a prophecy where a final battle will take place in Dabiq.

Maybe you should try and fully understand the points people are making before you go on the offensive.

Whether they hold Dabiq now or not is irrelevant. The point is, they are not attacking people in retaliation as was suggested. Maybe you should analyse your own ability to understand what people say before you attack what you perceive to be their current understanding of the situation.

I'm not responsible for how you perceive things.

And as for the claim that ISIS are not islamic...seems to be a common claim and it's complete trash.

ISIS are a perfect, literal interpretation of islam. Sure they've killed other muslims, the biggest majority of muslims in syria, iraq and afghanistan want nothing to do with them.

Muslims have been killing one another for centuries. Are you suggesting that the minute one muslim kills another that they cease to be a muslim? ISIS are perfect muslims...many of them gave up their lives and answered to the call of jihad, joining the caliph and pledging alegience to Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi... who is what?

Sunni muslim...so yes, they are indeed islamic. And this crap rhetoric that ISIS aren't islamic is retarded to say the least. It's disingenuous.

It's just another bulls**t line that apologists use to distance ISIS from islam...they're not islamic because they kill other muslims...yes they are. Why aren't they muslims? Please explain.

People need to stop accepting nonsense like that at face value...they are muslims, tell me exactly why they are not. Qualify your claim.

This is how abusrd it actually is.

We have a man who adopted the title of the first caliph, you know what a caliph is, right? He steps in and forms an islamic state and muslims from countries all over the world give up their lives to answer that call. ISIS have been pretty successful in recruiting....apparently non-islamic people. Non muslims..they're just up for a laugh, doing it for the lulz, right? For sh**s and giggles? Please, do me a favour.

How can someone say that those who answered the call to join the caliphate are not muslim? It's ridiculous, completely absurd and ridiculous. They live by the book, fight for the islamic state...but they're not muslim, they're not islamic. Just like westboro ain't christian...yes they are.

An islamic state, who have territory in Iraq and Syria, whith a caliph who speaks openly. led by a sunni muslim...is not islamic!

Pathetic. Make more excuses so we can all laugh at how pathetic it all is, we might aswell get some pleasure out of it.

Not islamic!