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Non secular Muslims, I got your back!

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posted on Jun, 24 2017 @ 07:51 AM
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Been listening to a lot of podcast lately with former Muslims and Non-secular Muslims and have realized a common theme.... Muslims are coming out under threat from radicals. So I am officially taking the stance that if you are a non-secular Muslims, I as a freedom loving classical liberal white American patriot have your back.

I truly believe radical Islam is a problem. I am also not dumb enough to think that all of Islam is one giant sect aka group think. I realize like Christianity there is Catholics, Mormons, Protestants, Sunni's, Shia and many many others.

I think we as a society not only have to encourage this trend to continue but EMBRACE it and make it so that these people can be and feel safe.

I highly reccomend listening to this episode of the Rubin Report featuring Maajid Nawaz..



Maajid has his own Radio Show in the UK. In this episode he tells his story about what he thinks the regressive left is not liberal and why they do not help the Muslim community and how they have try to shut him up even though he has taken a public stance against Radical Islam because he won't retort their narrative.

He talks about how he has had death threats and how dangerous it is for Muslims to essentially come out against the radical doctrine.

Great episode I highly recommend listening to it.

Oh, he also drives home a major point I would like to touch on.

A reforming Muslim will call out the flaws in the doctrine and the hadiths talking about beating their wife, cutting off the hands of theif and the other things in the Qu'ran that are obviously radical doctrines.

And...

We need to separate our religion from our politics in Islam.

Two key points I totally agree with.
edit on 24-6-2017 by toysforadults because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 24 2017 @ 08:24 AM
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The problem is that Islam is the government. It is the economy. It is the military doctrine.

It is impossible to divorce Mosque and State without fundamentally and irrevocably alter some very basic tenets of Islam.



posted on Jun, 24 2017 @ 08:25 AM
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a reply to: toysforadults


I truly believe radical Islam is a problem.

You mean anyone who shoots back?

How dare they defend their homelands anyway.

Whats religion got to do with that?

Blaming Islam for western armies invading their countries is repetitive nonsense.

'Radical Extremism' is waging unjust aggressive war on hapless nations under false pretexts. Blaming the victims for that and calling them extreme for resisting is what bullies do, to justify their behavior.


He talks about how he has had death threats and how dangerous it is for Muslims to essentially come out against the radical doctrine.

The only good muslim is a 'reformed one'? Islam does not condone murder, they do condone fighting back against occupation by foreign armies, just like we do.



posted on Jun, 24 2017 @ 08:28 AM
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a reply to: projectvxn


It is impossible to divorce Mosque and State without fundamentally and irrevocably alter some very basic tenets of Islam.


Youre going to fix their God, religion, way of life? Good luck. They hold that man is corrupt and gubments will ultimately become corrupt with greedy men at the top. Over here we turn a blind eye to that, but expect them to come up to our way of corruption?





posted on Jun, 24 2017 @ 08:29 AM
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a reply to: intrptr

If Islam doesn't condone murder how come they seem to commit so much of it? Including each other?



posted on Jun, 24 2017 @ 08:30 AM
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originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: toysforadults


I truly believe radical Islam is a problem.

You mean anyone who shoots back?

How dare they defend their homelands anyway.

Whats religion got to do with that?

Blaming Islam for western armies invading their countries is repetitive nonsense.

'Radical Extremism' is waging unjust aggressive war on hapless nations under false pretexts. Blaming the victims for that and calling them extreme for resisting is what bullies do, to justify their behavior.


He talks about how he has had death threats and how dangerous it is for Muslims to essentially come out against the radical doctrine.

The only good muslim is a 'reformed one'? Islam does not condone murder, they do condone fighting back against occupation by foreign armies, just like we do.


Their jihad has nothing to do with them being attacked and retaliating.

ISIS believe in impending apocalypse, that an epic battle will take place in Dabiq. It has nothing to do with them being attacked by any modern day country.

So the notion that they're somehow fighting back in retaliation is not only abusrd, but shows your true colours - terrorist sympathiser and apologist.

No...I'm afraid they are engaging in jihad in spite of other nations foreign policies. Nice try, though.

I like the sentiment of the thread, sadly it'll never happen. Islam is too rigid and not open to reform.

ETA: S&F for at least trying to start a reasonable dialogue, but 100% sure this thread will descend into madness and anarchy before long.
edit on 24-6-2017 by LungFuMoShi because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2017 @ 08:31 AM
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a reply to: intrptr




Islam does not condone murder, they do condone fighting back against occupation by foreign armies, just like we do.


One may also suggest a fair percentage of them condone flying planes into buildings as well.
edit on 24-6-2017 by hutch622 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2017 @ 08:35 AM
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a reply to: intrptr

I don't want to fix it.

Like all fairy tales I want it to be relegated to the dust bin of long dead religions.



posted on Jun, 24 2017 @ 08:35 AM
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a reply to: toysforadults

I have often wondered about the following hypothetical situation,

A non violent Muslim knows that a violent Muslim is going to do a horrible thing, what does he do? Does his religion approve of "snitching"? How about their god? What does he think about someone, who prevents another of becoming a martyr?



posted on Jun, 24 2017 @ 08:41 AM
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originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: intrptr

If Islam doesn't condone murder how come they seem to commit so much of it? Including each other?


Really? Who's dropping more tonnage of ordnance on others homelands?

You were there, you know whereof I speak.



posted on Jun, 24 2017 @ 08:43 AM
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a reply to: LungFuMoShi


Their jihad has nothing to do with them being attacked and retaliating.

Their resistance to our occupation is more about freedom and self determination than whatever church they attend, lol.
edit on 24-6-2017 by intrptr because: bb code



posted on Jun, 24 2017 @ 08:47 AM
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originally posted by: LungFuMoShi
but shows your true colours - terrorist sympathiser and apologist.

That's a serious BS statement to make against intrptr. He, like most people who end up in an argument over Islam, is presenting half of an argument. His half is as valid as the side promoted by projectvxn.


this thread will descend into madness and anarchy before long.

Maybe ... if we start by calling each other names.

There's no end to 'this' argument. Islam is a secular thing. The religious part is tied at the hip. Here's how I see it: You travel to the Middle East. You experience their 'culture' first-hand. You decide if you like yours better than ours. Make your decision on where you want to live.

Those two cultures are unable to co-exist in the same space. There may be periods of 'tolerance', but if that's the best you can do ...



posted on Jun, 24 2017 @ 08:49 AM
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originally posted by: hutch622
a reply to: intrptr




Islam does not condone murder, they do condone fighting back against occupation by foreign armies, just like we do.


One may also suggest a fair percentage of them condone flying planes into buildings .

Yes, if they had an airforce they would use it to fight back. Lots of people over there are desperate to make the US, EU, "Coalition" stop invading their countries, by any means.

In that regard this endless war we promote abroad is threatening our nation and our people for what, profit from arms and exploitation of resources?

The BS about their undemocratic religious fanaticism is for show...

... but you already know that.



posted on Jun, 24 2017 @ 08:52 AM
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a reply to: intrptr

Then why have IS killed more of their own countrymen than westerners?



posted on Jun, 24 2017 @ 08:52 AM
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originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: intrptr

I don't want to fix it.

Like all fairy tales I want it to be relegated to the dust bin of long dead religions.


The notion we are 'improving' them by invading and occupying them, is the fairytale.



posted on Jun, 24 2017 @ 08:55 AM
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originally posted by: johnb
a reply to: intrptr

Then why have IS killed more of their own countrymen than westerners?

The outside insurgency is directed at the "Regime", civilian casualties are a direct result of the fighting between the Syrian Army, and the 'invaders'.



posted on Jun, 24 2017 @ 09:01 AM
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a reply to: intrptr

So, the doomsday prophecy where they will have an epic showdown with what they still refer to as 'Rome' is actually a consequence of other nations foreign policy?

I see...oh, no....we're being invaded! We need a prophecy! I've got it...epic smackdown in Dabiq!

That's how primitive and backwards they are...they refer to the West as 'Rome'. The idea of a caliph ruling an islamic state predates any modern conflict.



posted on Jun, 24 2017 @ 09:01 AM
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originally posted by: projectvxn
The problem is that Islam is the government. It is the economy. It is the military doctrine.

It is impossible to divorce Mosque and State without fundamentally and irrevocably alter some very basic tenets of Islam.


I have to disagree.

There are numerous Secular, majority Muslim states out there.

They're less popular, particularly in the Middle East these days thanks primarily to ridiculous Western foreign policy, but they're around.



posted on Jun, 24 2017 @ 09:03 AM
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a reply to: Snarl

No - his half of the argument was based on an outright lie and is typical of modern day apologists.

And it works quite often...they're only defending theirselves!

No they're not...at all. Not even a little bit, they are trying to fulfil a prophecy, they haven't tried to hide it. ISIS have been quite open about their intentions.

Why should we lie about it when they aren't?



posted on Jun, 24 2017 @ 09:04 AM
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a reply to: LungFuMoShi


That's how primitive and backwards they are...they refer to the West as 'Rome'. The idea of a caliph ruling an islamic state predates any modern conflict.

But they are primarily Muslim. Convenient, huh...

To really get people riled up, make it a Holy War.

Add boatloads of arms... and stir

.







 
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