A question to Americans

Originally posted by The Todd
I’m not sure if this is the right forum, so if it’s wrong please move it.

This is a question to Americans, if you where living in another country how would you feel about the war in Iraq and the possibility that US will attack Iran, is it possible that you would change views?

Would your views change if you lived in a country with a small military power if WW3 would happen?

This is not an America bashing or Bush bashing thread, I’m just curios if America’s enormous military makes people feel like “let’s go for it, if something happens we can handle it”.

Thanks for you time
Todd

Would I change my views? Aren't you implying that we already agree with what has/will happen?

Many of us, myself included, disagree with alot that has been done. I did not feel the war in IRAQ was justified and when no WMD were found it ticked me off even more and further built a wall of "mistrust"...

I dont want to see a war with Iran either. War sucks period. Even when it's justified (as in some cases in our past) it still sucks. I would much rather covert ops to "take out" targets as necessary but not a full blown war... I fear the arrogance of the US has only perpetuated the hatred toward us.

So to answer your question... I dont think my views would change if I were living in another country, I still would disagree with the war(s). But I finish by saying unless I've walked in your shoes...

Originally posted by I See You

Originally posted by The Todd
This is a question to Americans, if you where living in another country how would ......".

AGAIN, OFFICER CROWNE, REPORTING FOR LONG QUOTE DETECTION AND REMOVAL DUTY, STILL LOOKING FOR THE FREE APPLES AND COFFEE

Thanks for you time
Todd

I don't think we should ever just "go for it". We did what was needed not just for the benefit of the US but for the world. .....

Should you not try and sort out your own government before interfering with anyone elses? And who's to say which government is right or wrong? Surely not the USA? The US government is out of control and has gone power mad since GWB was elected. I don't think the US government has any right to tell another country to adopt American ways or they will overthrow you and take over your country and run it how they want. IE, Iran, they have done nothing to provoke the USA, so why do the US government want to invade? To the US government I say - Leave Iran and the rest of the world alone, and sort out your own problems first, millions in poverty, unemployed, homeless, unprecidented crime rates,drugs, etc, etc....do you not care about your people??

[edit on 8-2-2005 by Thomas Crowne]

You are quite wrong when you say Americans, with a big military, are quick to go attack people. AS has been mentioned before, you confuse the people with the govornment, two seperate entities. Americans themselves have historically been reluctant about getting involved, see our delayed entrances into both world wars.

The only times the American public as a whole says, go get em, is when we are directly attacked. See German threats in ww1, Pearl Harbor, 9/11.

I have lived abroad, and my views would not change. I opposed the war in Iraq because I knew from my own experiences years earlier, stationed in Saudi, that Saddam had no WMD, that he was hardly a threat, (in fact, when I was there in 95, not only were we bombing the hell out of them, but our concerns about attacks were more focused on Iran, who began engaging in threatening behavior.) and that there were better things for our military to do. If Iraq had had a credible, signifigant part in 9/11, or actually had WMD and was planning on attacking us and this could have been proven beyond all doubt, then my views would be, go get em, and show no mercy.

Living in other countires would not change my core values, beliefs, ect, and if I were living in some small country that the US was about to invade, Id be sure to relocate myself.

saddam did have wmd's cause he used them.....they are either buried in the desert or were moved to syria.....i'm sure we knew that we were not gonna find any weapons but we needed some kind of reason....the real reason is that the arabs of the world were getting a little too out of hand and we needed to smack them upside the head and remind them who their daddy is.

A country invades another because they do not like the government.

When Bill Clinton did that (without U.N. approval) Europe cheered. The fact that the U.S. needed to help in a strictly European affair should be a source of eternal shame for Europe. European stability was threatened and we saw a coalition of the spineless.

George W does this and Europe sees hegemony, jingoism, racisim, zionism and a bunch of other isms. So if the U.S. is threatened we must ask the world for their approval. Well... kiss my big 'ol red,white and blue butt. There comes a time when the U.S must act for the U.S.

Originally posted by The Todd
This is a question to Americans, if you where living in another country how would you feel about the war in Iraq and the possibility that US will attack Iran, is it possible that you would change views?

Would your views change if you lived in a country with a small military power if WW3 would happen?

No, it wouldn't change my point of view, since I already look at it that way. If you're not blinded by the new patriotic brainwashing, America appears (from within or without) to be a bully. We have been for quite some time. If you don't cooperate with our every whim, we'll burry you financially. If we can't burry you, our allies can. If we have neither power, we'll bomb you back to the stone age. That's the way I see it, anyway....and I live here. Right or wrong, the brainwashed patriots will pound their fists to the word freedom, even if it no longer has the same definition.

If you are American and you've never visited another country, your opinion is totally irrelevant.

If you can't put yourself in someone else's shoes who lives in another country, don't bother answering, you're part of the problem rather than part of the solution.

(You know what I'm talking about, Americans who travel abroad then loudly complain about how things are different than they are "back home")

If you believe that as an American the planet revolves around you, be happy about it, stick your head back in the sand and let the rest of the human race go on with their own business without bombing them or killing them in the name of "Freedom" when your own country is Unfree and you just don't realize it.

Jakamo, Canada owes its complete existance to the U.S. so please relax. Your opinion is just as important as mine in the U.S. (remember us? we live south of you and protect you?)

I am sorry you suffer from little brother envy but deal with it.

Originally posted by Jakomo

If you are American and you've never visited another country, your opinion is totally irrelevant.

If you can't put yourself in someone else's shoes who lives in another country, don't bother answering, you're part of the problem rather than part of the solution.

(You know what I'm talking about, Americans who travel abroad then loudly complain about how things are different than they are "back home")

If you believe that as an American the planet revolves around you, be happy about it, stick your head back in the sand and let the rest of the human race go on with their own business without bombing them or killing them in the name of "Freedom" when your own country is Unfree and you just don't realize it.

But I just got done telling you that I don't see America from the brainwashed patriotic perspective, and I've only visited another country once, when I was about 5 yrs old. Can't say I remember much of that, really. You can't lump all Americans into that category. There are clearly a good portion of us that aren't fooled as easily, and do have the ability to see beyond blind "patriotism." You don't have to have left the country for that. You just have to favor logic over faith.

[edit on 7-2-2005 by Moe Foe]

Flyers Fan says:

"If I lived in N. Korea ...If I lived in France ...If I lived in Israel ..."

Excellent post! I like your style.

Originally posted by booger
Jakamo, Canada owes its complete existance to the U.S. so please relax. Your opinion is just as important as mine in the U.S. (remember us? we live south of you and protect you?)

I am sorry you suffer from little brother envy but deal with it.

Keep this thread intelligent and without inflamatory remarks, please.

Moe Foe :

You can't lump all Americans into that category. There are clearly a good portion of us that aren't fooled as easily

I totally realize that. It's the other category of Americans that gives the good 90% a bad name, and unfortunately it's those ones that get noticed the most.

But by the same token, I'm sure when it comes to countries whose populations are the least educated about the outside world, it's the United States.

More than any other country.

Originally posted by Jakomo
But by the same token, I'm sure when it comes to countries whose populations are the least educated about the outside world, it's the United States.

More than any other country.

Unfortunately, you're right about that. Americans have been living with their heads up their arses for ages. They're so far out of touch with anything that's not American, they really have no clue what it would be like not to live here. All they think about are their material possessions and money to buy more material possessions. That's what they gauge "freedom" by.

To continue broad questions and comments:

What do average American Citizens not know about other average countries' citizens that other average countries' citizens know about average American Citizens?

Originally posted by Moe Foe
All they think about are their material possessions and money to buy more material possessions. That's what they gauge "freedom" by.

Actually, that's how I gauge my "freedom" by in America!

The thing is, I find America's principles very sketchy, almost vague sometimes. It seems like nobody has any idea what America truly stands for. Not anymore at least.

But if it's the material possessions and money I'm gonna get in America, I guess that's all worth protecting.

I'll give you a clue. America was once about extreme caution in government, and keeping it as minimal as possible.

Hint: It's not going to be terrorists that steal your freedom. It will be your own government.

Until America realizes that its worst threat is actually its own government, America will be in danger of losing its freedom. Americans used to want freedom for all Americans. Now, they could care less, as long as they have big houses, multiple cars, plenty of TV's, DVD's, TIVO, A/C, Dishwashers, etc. Freedom has become privatized. That's the biggest change, and the one that will ruin us, eventually. The problem is, politicians want all this too, but they want even nicer stuff, and they have no problem taking your money and freedom to get it. The less freedom you really have, the easier it is for them to take your money. They've become masters of redistributing the wealth to those who will reward them. Meanwhile, making it appear as though they're doing things for the lower class. Just like a Magician, distraction tactics allow for great illusions.

Jakko, flash bulletin for you, friend, the rest of the world seems to think the universe revolves around us as it is so interested in everything from our politics to our worst export - Hollywood. Furthermore, those who have not travelled beyond our borders have just as weighty an opinion as anyone else's. For example, one of our citizens said she knew Iraq had no WMD's because she was stationed in Saudi Arabia. Ok, I live in a country next to Canada and I have no idea what they have, other than the beer we export from them (excellent neighbor, in my humble opinion! :lol. Thanks, for your opinon of who may state their opinion, but shove it.

Now, as for my opinion as both an American and a traveled American, I don't see whaty difference it makes. The same questions were asked when the Cold War as fully engaged, but no matter what happens, what is to be will be. Hussein had chemical and biological weapons and the ability to make more. Him using them was not the threat, the threat was him handing off the weapons to those groups who would harm innocent people. The world knows Iran is a state terror sponsor, as well asa Syria. So, who am I supposed to imagine I am when I try and see things outside my own borders, huh? Hussein's? A citizen in Syria or Iran? Maybe ffrom the point of view of those in France, Germany and Russia who were profiting from the Food for Oil U.N. scandal?

The U.S. is the target, so the rest of the world sees no reason to be alarmed, and you ask us to think about how we might view the war were we living in another country. Here's an idea; imagine you've just lost your husband in a pile of rubble, your neighbor lost his wife, you turn on the TV and you see people dancing in the streets because of the many American lives lost and property destroyed. Would you give a rat's rear what others thought? When might you be concerned with Islamic terrorism, when you step onto the wrong train in Spain, are on board the wrong plane flying over Scotland, are on the wrong luxury liner or in the wrong office building?

Good question. I suspect that perceived power and strength will always give people a sense that they can do anything. If I were in a smaller country I would very much be worried about a WW3 but as an American I am also worried about it. In my book there will be no winners in a world war. As for the war in Iraq. Hard to say. I suppose if your country had never had a problem with Iraq then you would find it hard to understand why we went there. I supported the war with the idea we would go in, remove Sadam and leave. Of course my thinking was too easy.

As for Iran. They are only one of many countries that pose a threat to us and frankly I would be more worried about N. Korea. At this time relations around the world are so tense that any further conflicts would only work against America at this time. I think everyone needs a cooling off period.

Good post...FlyersFan

Moe Foe - By the way you talk it sounds like your young and believe in the whole "NWO" garbage.

Truth
Id feel the same way, that the NWO is behind this war and the next major war to come to fullfill their objective.

Also if this is about Solomons land to be regained by the jews, than Syria is probably the most likely next candidate, though
a huge attack would have to happen on america to get the backing of another war. Also I think they will use the excuse that WMDs have
moved into Syria.

There is no NWO. never has or will be. Syria wouldn't be the next on the US hit list, its Iran. Though It will be at least 2 years before anything happens, but I doubt that the US will go to war with Iran, unless Iran attacked us (not terrorist living in Iran, I mean Iran's goverment).

blueknight
The problem this presents is that the people running the country do NOT represent the views of the majority which is the way it should be.

yes they do, The US Gov goes by the ol' majority rule.

Its how we pass our laws and elect our presidents.

paranoia
I think you underestimate the rest of the worlds knowledge and views on this matter. I would turn the tables and say its America that know very little about the war.

I dissagree. I think America knows a lot about the war, thats why if you talk to different people about the war there reasons for it being right or wrong will (usually) be different.

Personally, I am more neutral to the war. I do not think we should pull out now, because then the whole thing would of being pointless. But on the same note - If Bush's reason for War was to make the middle-east peacefull...Then I think he bit off more then he can chew, because there is to many un-stable countries, and we cant afford to change one after another.

I am not against the war though, Sadaam was crazy and the world is a better place with him not there. People say the world was safer before the US went to war, and the US wont change Iraq...hell...as most people know, Iraq is currently a very hostile place to live, but that is not because Iraqi's are fighting the US because they do not want them there. Its because the middle east sees this as a big step, If the US makes Iraq a peacefull place with a good goverment then it wouild be a victory for the US and a loss to all the terrorist in the middle east. Its a proven fact that Iran is keeping Iraq from being more stable...Its sending people to help keep the death toll rising, because that way American citizens will want to leave the place alone, and have its military pull out, while at the same time the longer the Army and Marines are in Iraq, thats means that they wont attack Iran.

Byrd
If I were living abroad, this would not change my feelings about Bush: that the man is a complete ninny and that his testosterone policies have made the world a less safe place for us and that he's spent us into the biggest deficit in history and that he's going to destroy any hopes this generation has of getting as much of a retirement as my dad has... or as I will get.

Social Security is getting top Priority now, so I wouldn't worry about it, remember that nearly everyone in congrees in old, so they want what you want.

Of course were in the biggest deficit, wars cost a lot of money, but once its over in a few years then it will be leveling off.

celticniall
I don't think the US government has any right to tell another country to adopt American ways or they will overthrow you and take over your country and run it how they want. IE, Iran, they have done nothing to provoke the USA, so why do the US government want to invade?

We dont tell or threaten countries to change their ways or we will over-throw you. Nations can do as they please without US interference. Iraq didn't directly threaten us, but the reason they got what was coming to them is because they had a past with the US that wasn't good and its people were treated bad, and they had oil which they were threatening to destroy. Iraq has being a country that has needed a regime change for awhile, and if the US didn't do it...it wouldn't of happened.

As for Iran...They harbor terrorist and fool the UN. They are making nuclear weapons, and there missiles ranges continue to grow, while there newest missiles cant hit CONUS, they can europe and US bases and embassies.

Moe Foe
Unfortunately, you're right about that. Americans have been living with their heads up their arses for ages. They're so far out of touch with anything that's not American, they really have no clue what it would be like not to live here. All they think about are their material possessions and money to buy more material possessions. That's what they gauge "freedom" by.

I think your the only one with his head up his ass.
I often think of things from someone elses point of view, to see how I would react if I was them. That goes for the Iraqis or just someone i'm talking to. I try and live by "Don't do to others, that which you do not want done to yourself".
Is there people in the US that dont care about the world situation and only think about there life...Yes, as goes with every country.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Jakko, flash bulletin for you, friend, the rest of the world seems to think the universe revolves around us as it is so interested in everything from our politics to our worst export - Hollywood.

Your politics? Yes. Your Hollywood? Yes. You? No.

Just like any nobody citizen, you are a nobody. Just like any other nobody citizen in any other country. See? We all have something in common.