How would one prove Tarot Card Readings have validity?

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: InTheLight
Let's try a test. I did a tarot reading to see who has the best chance of becoming or staying President of the U.S. For Trump the 7 of cups emerged, for Biden the 6 of cups emerged, and for Sanders the Chariot emerged. One might think that Sanders would be the one to win, but the Chariot comes with the impetus that he must work very hard and not give up. Is Sanders up to it? This reading is for the present state of affairs so I may do another tarot card pick closer to the actual voting time.

Yeah, Biden doesn't look like a contender with the six of cups. His heart really isn't in it, and a woman in his life (wife, possibly) might be an important factor. The seven of the Chariot versus seven of cups, huh? The Sanders campaign being driven by minorities and women, but then Trump with all of the illusion and fantasy. At this point, looks like Trump has it.

But the wind can change with these larger issues. I've always felt that because consciousness is involved, a Tarot reading has a bigger impact on individuals than global events.

For sure, it is still early days and early to tell whether you guys are headed into another recession.

originally posted by: InTheLight
For sure, it is still early days and early to tell whether you guys are headed into another recession.

Well, I just drew a Five of Cups online. So that doesn't look good for Trump. Still, people will cling to fantasy during hardship, so...

As for myself, though, finishing out a 3-Card draw with an Ace of Cups and a Sun, looks like after the turmoil, good days ahead for me.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: InTheLight
For sure, it is still early days and early to tell whether you guys are headed into another recession.

Well, I just drew a Five of Cups online. So that doesn't look good for Trump. Still, people will cling to fantasy during hardship, so...

As for myself, though, finishing out a 3-Card draw with an Ace of Cups and a Sun, looks like after the turmoil, good days ahead for me.

I don't want to know what the day will bring, I want to control what the day will bring.

I forgot to mention that I drew a 2 of cups for Warren. I mean why did I even bother because a female President, c'mon what was I thinking?

originally posted by: InTheLight
I forgot to mention that I drew a 2 of cups for Warren. I mean why did I even bother because a female President, c'mon what was I thinking?

A properly qualified and non-vilified woman could become President. It's not impossible. But probably not this time. But it looks like she might have some romance in her life!

P.S. -- So many cups being drawn. Hmmm....

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: InTheLight
I forgot to mention that I drew a 2 of cups for Warren. I mean why did I even bother because a female President, c'mon what was I thinking?

A properly qualified and non-vilified woman could become President. It's not impossible. But probably not this time. But it looks like she might have some romance in her life!

Yes, so many cups being drawn...hmm...mm.

Cups being full, cups being half full, cups being empty.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: Nemox42
Also if you kept up with the Randi challenge. IT'S HELD IN VEGAS. So why don't you take your psychic abilities and clean the damn casinos? psychics at least the famous ones ARE FRAUDS. The lesser known ones who don't TAKE MONEY for psychic readings, I tend to say maybe they are maybe not. And yes DENY ALL IGNORANCE.

Of course it's held in Las Vegas. Which is what I'm saying about it being all showbiz. Nobody wants to take a look at the real work. It's a lot easier to play the superior skeptic rather than try to see what's actually going on, or at least look at it from an unbiased perspective.

Are there rip-offs? It's mostly harmless entertainment. People lose a lot more money in casinos, with real estate scams, or just ordinary medical billing than from psychics. Why so vehement? Are you disappointed that flashy displays of clairvoyance don't really happen. That doesn't mean there isn't something worth investigating here. You say "deny all ignorance," but don't forget the ignorance of blind adherence to what you perceive as authority.

Contemplate this, and see what you come up with. But also be aware of your surroundings in the next couple of days, because this will show up again:

The only fools are the one who pay psychics to do anything for them. And the only other fool is the one who believes they are psychic. Harmless you say? How about people who spent their entire life saving because they believe in this BS. Because they miss their dead son or husband. There is a reason why people like randi and other famous debunkers (penn and teller) do this. Stage magic is fun and people know its fake or an illusion, but to give people false hope and rip them off of their money. That is just criminal. I'm glad people like randi and other great magicians go into the debunking business, it's not for the money but because they realize these people are fake and hurting people.

Blueshift, you aren't psychic. You wish you were. You're like cartman in south park. You want to be the center of attention all the time so you make of crap like psychics and tarot cards being "real" divination tools. You wanna tell me that the ouji board is a divination tool too? That the parker bros company who also makes monopoly and mouse trap is the devil's company? You might think I'm a fool. But you Blueshift is a brain-washed tool. I win.

originally posted by: Nemox42
Blueshift, you aren't psychic. You wish you were. You're like cartman in south park. You want to be the center of attention all the time so you make of crap like psychics and tarot cards being "real" divination tools. You wanna tell me that the ouji board is a divination tool too? That the parker bros company who also makes monopoly and mouse trap is the devil's company? You might think I'm a fool. But you Blueshift is a brain-washed tool. I win.

You think this is some kind of competition? That's an odd way to look at it. Maybe it would be more acceptable to you if you looked at it more like those creativity exercises that or brainstorming tools corporations like to use. There are some very strong parallels between the two activities. Presentation of a task or problem, introduction of randomly generated symbols and ideas, interpretation, then incorporation into a person's (or company's) reality. Because you're right. The Tarot "works," but also the Ouija board, or the I Ching, just like these brainstorming exercises, because it makes you actively involved in the potentialities of your life, rather than just coasting on convention or what "smart" people have told you.

I'm not asking for any money. We're just people on the Internet exploring ideas. But you seem angry, and that's unfortunate. I don't blame you. Anyway, try it. See what happens. It's free. I have no affiliation with it.

Free Online Tarot Reading

a reply to: ColdWisdom

This doesn't make any sense to me. As Robert Wilson has surmised from many great minds before him, "as the thinker thinks, the prover proves."

Or, to put it more bluntly, I tried your experiment after cleansing the area of disembodied entities and pulling cards thrice from a holy deck, and... wait for it... it worked.

**No doubt this is as helpful as your comment was, but still an amusing counterpoint to me.

a reply to: Blue Shift

Unless you're wrong. I mean, isn't it also possible that 99.867% of all people lack the gift, including those pretenders who lie about knowing things... like whether others are psychic.

Logically, you can't know categorically that there are no psychics, unless you know everything. (Which maybe you do, but I don't see you making that claim openly.) What I'm pointing out here is helpful to know if one wants to pretend to be intelligent rather than just reactive on a topic: You can't prove a negative. Granted, this doesn't mean that there are psychics either.

But the hilarious thing to me is the juxtaposition that there are psychics AND that your end state will be more satisfying to me personally if you remain unaware of such things.

I base my belief on tarot around my experiences with it.

Pretty sceptical dude but had a friend who just started getting into tarot reading, occasionally she'd ask if I want my cards read I'd say yeah sure why not..

Over a period of a few months I had 4 consecutive draws of the same meaning, thought that really strange couldn't have been a bad shuffle either since I shuffled the decks twice myself.

Decided hey why not get a proffesional reading... lo and behold for the fifth time all the same meaning.
In this current phase of my life the cards made perfect sense to what I was going through as well and even looking back the readings were 100% for what was to come.

The 'professional' even mentioned something I had done, a small devotional gesture to god(which is something completely out of character for me I'm not a religious person yet I did it) and there is NO way at all she could have possibly known I did that, yet she said it was a really beautiful act of faith..
There were no questions asked of me either she just spoke.

So Im shook
And 100% believe tarot is a real thing

Is it really the time for me to draw the cards again?

The last time they all had cups; full, half full, and empty, but Bernie Sanders had the Chariot.

Do a tarot reading for someone, but write the results down instead of telling them upfront. Ask them to write down their thoughts and concerns as well. Be as detailed as possible. Put both documents in a safe place for a year, then give them to the subject. Let them decide what it's worth.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
Do a tarot reading for someone, but write the results down instead of telling them upfront. Ask them to write down their thoughts and concerns as well. Be as detailed as possible. Put both documents in a safe place for a year, then give them to the subject. Let them decide what it's worth.

I would have little confidence in that approach. If the person doing the reading is at all proficient in the Barnum method, putting the reading in a safe for a year is not going to do that much to eliminate the self-validation fallacy.

The Barnum Efect

The Barnum effect is named after P.T. Barnum, the showman who declared "there¹s a sucker born every minute." He found many ways to separate "suckers", as he called gullible people, from their money.

The Barnum effect in psychology refers to the gullibility of people when reading descriptions of themselves. By personality, we mean the ways in which people are different and unique. However, it is possible to give everyone the same description and people nevertheless rate the description as very very accurate.
...
"The moral of the Barnum Demonstration", Birnbaum has said, is that "self-validation is no validation. Do not be fooled by a psychic, quack psychotherapist, or a phony faith healer who uses this trick on you! Be skeptical and ask for proof. Keep your money in your wallet, your wallet in your pocket, and your hand on your wallet."

I would instead suggest researching this Barnum method and related research to understand the ways we can be fooled. It's not so much an individual failing, as a general human tendency for a lot of people to be fooled by these types of things, and not realize they are being fooled. Maybe some people are happy with being fooled and not realizing they've been fooled because they don't understand this research but instead rely on flawed methods such as what you suggest, but I'd rather know the truth.

Ray Hyman said Tarot cards are just a gimmick to help people fall for it:

hucksters are more likely to be successful if they exude an air of confidence ("If you look and act as if you believe in what you are doing, you will be able to sell even a bad reading to most of your subjects"), if they "[m]ake creative use of the latest statistical abstracts, polls, and surveys" showing "what various subclasses of our society believe, do, want, worry about, and so on", if they employ "a gimmick, such as a crystal ball, tarot cards, or palm reading", if they are alert to the clues provided about their clients by such details as their "clothing, jewelry, mannerisms and speech", if they are not afraid of "hamming it up", and if they use flattery.

So, just use all the Barnum techniques Hyman and others noted when you give the Tarot reading, and the mark should have a tendency to fall for it whether they hear the reading now, or a year later.

My sister use to do tera cards OMG its painted cardboard lol.
ooo the stars which are 10000 s of light years away tell my future or a ball of glass or a cardboard painted .
YOU know i use to be pretty good at this stuff my self .
The trick is to generalize .

Like so when i was 19 I was working at a fast-food joint sitting with other employs some girl who I did not even know her name we all got to talking about this stuff so I told the girl I could tell her all about her self as proof I had POWERSSSSSS ogga lol.
anyway I just listened very carefully during all the chating and noticed she had a tendency to correct bad grammar BUT in two different ways one way as if a young child the other as if like a teacher would .' so I say to her . Your 23 ( her eyes get slightly larger ) I then say you have a child . Notice I did NOT say boy or girl child .) Again eyes get larger . I then say your going to school to become a teacher and want to teach elementary school kids .
BY this time every one was dead quite all staring at me and she was sitting there with her mouth open lolol .
BUT it was all based on what how she talked and acted . wile she could have been 22 or 24 23 was a logic guess as for a child again a logical guess on how she was acting Like a new mom .
no special powers no magic cards or stars just observation .
Cards o man I could have any one here convinced I am magic . All I need to do is say exactly what you expect me to and as long as i am stroking your ego I am right below god lol .
You know I did it with a sociologists once had her totally convinced i was so average in EVERY last little detail . It is so easy just say exactly what people want to hear .

The really funny part is i can tell you exactly how I would do it and you would still be convinced I am magic .
I Know because its happened to me more times then i can count lol .

The trix, is to not gneneralize.

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

originally posted by: TzarChasm
Do a tarot reading for someone, but write the results down instead of telling them upfront. Ask them to write down their thoughts and concerns as well. Be as detailed as possible. Put both documents in a safe place for a year, then give them to the subject. Let them decide what it's worth.

I would have little confidence in that approach. If the person doing the reading is at all proficient in the Barnum method, putting the reading in a safe for a year is not going to do that much to eliminate the self-validation fallacy.

The Barnum Efect

The Barnum effect is named after P.T. Barnum, the showman who declared "there¹s a sucker born every minute." He found many ways to separate "suckers", as he called gullible people, from their money.

The Barnum effect in psychology refers to the gullibility of people when reading descriptions of themselves. By personality, we mean the ways in which people are different and unique. However, it is possible to give everyone the same description and people nevertheless rate the description as very very accurate.
...
"The moral of the Barnum Demonstration", Birnbaum has said, is that "self-validation is no validation. Do not be fooled by a psychic, quack psychotherapist, or a phony faith healer who uses this trick on you! Be skeptical and ask for proof. Keep your money in your wallet, your wallet in your pocket, and your hand on your wallet."

I would instead suggest researching this Barnum method and related research to understand the ways we can be fooled. It's not so much an individual failing, as a general human tendency for a lot of people to be fooled by these types of things, and not realize they are being fooled. Maybe some people are happy with being fooled and not realizing they've been fooled because they don't understand this research but instead rely on flawed methods such as what you suggest, but I'd rather know the truth.

Ray Hyman said Tarot cards are just a gimmick to help people fall for it:

hucksters are more likely to be successful if they exude an air of confidence ("If you look and act as if you believe in what you are doing, you will be able to sell even a bad reading to most of your subjects"), if they "[m]ake creative use of the latest statistical abstracts, polls, and surveys" showing "what various subclasses of our society believe, do, want, worry about, and so on", if they employ "a gimmick, such as a crystal ball, tarot cards, or palm reading", if they are alert to the clues provided about their clients by such details as their "clothing, jewelry, mannerisms and speech", if they are not afraid of "hamming it up", and if they use flattery.

So, just use all the Barnum techniques Hyman and others noted when you give the Tarot reading, and the mark should have a tendency to fall for it whether they hear the reading now, or a year later.

The objective is to test the cards, not fleece my friends. You can also use legitimate science to steal people's money, like casinos. Funny I've never seen Tarot in a casino. Hmm

Has anyone ever tried reading on a popular tv series. Game of thrones would have been great for this since much of it was so unpredictable. Kind of like, going through the characters at the beginning of a season asking what their position will be at the end of the season.

one experiment would be to randomly select a group of people to faithfully record a daily journal but to Not read Daily Horoscopes... perhaps one group would do this participation for 1 year another group for a several year period...

the results of Tarot or even Horoscope daily readings would compiled … as would the reports from daily journal notations to see if there were common themes happening (without the contamination cross-over from Tarot readings knowing what was written by the journal keepers) - a lot of 'Trust' & 'honesty' will be involved on the part of the researchers & the test persons

originally posted by: SirEndalot
a reply to: Blue Shift
But the hilarious thing to me is the juxtaposition that there are psychics AND that your end state will be more satisfying to me personally if you remain unaware of such things.

Being slightly better at recognizing patterns in the flow of reality doesn't necessarily provide a benefit, particularly if you only have very limited power to act on it. I gave up long ago on the idea that having more information or knowledge automatically leads to a better, happier life. Sometimes, yes. Always? No.